[Pendragon]Can anyone list the passions pairs for me?

[AikiGhost]

Can anyone list the passions pairs for me? I dont have the book right now and I'm working on a modified version for my new BRP world.

You know the "Chaste/Lusty" style pairs.

[rust]

Chaste - Lustful

Energetic - Lazy

Forgiving - Vengeful

Generous - Selfish

Honest - Deceitful

Just - Arbitrary

Merciful - Cruel

Modest - Proud

Pious - Worldly

Prudent - Reckless

Temperate - Indulgent

Trusting - Suspicious

Valorous - Cowardly

By the way, a very similar list, meant to be used for NPCs, is in BRP Edition Zero.

[Shaira]

Here ya go (these are from the BRP rulesbook, not Pendragon):

Aggressive/Passive

Impulsive/Cautious

Extrovert/Introvert

Optimistic/Pessimistic

Stubborn/Receptive

Physical/Mental

Patient/Nervous

Emotional/Calm

Trusting/Suspicious

Leader/Follower

Greedy/Generous

Energetic/Lazy

Honorable/Dishonorable

Brave/Cowardly

Curious/Incurious

Dependable/Unreliable

Pious/Irreligious

Honest/Dishonest

Clever/Dull

Humorous/Dour

Innovative/Conservative

I think I'd probably go with a Cruel / Merciful and maybe a couple of others too.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,

Sarah

[frogspawner]

Some terms are rather 'loaded', so I've tried to come up with pairs that both sound good (and with negative interpretations of each, too):

1. Brave / Cautious (Foolhardy/Cowardly) : Willingness to face danger for the sake of victory / Avoidance and fear of dangers.

2. Chaste / Lusty (Repressed/Lustful) : Faithful to cultural mores in sexual relations / Excess sexual desire and activity without commitment.

3. Diligent / Relaxed (Manic/Lazy) : Works hard and applies to the task at hand / Avoids work or tedium and prefers to sit around.

4. Forgiving / Forceful (Apologist/Vengeful) : Ignores insults, injuries and bad comments / Seeks revenge for all slights, real or imagined.

5. Generous / Conservative (Squandering/Selfish) : Shares and frequently gives gifts / Desires to accumulate material wealth for themselves.

6. Honest / Cunning (Unimaginitive/Deceitful) : Truthful and reliable despite negative consequences / Distorts the truth to their advantage.

7. Modest / Proud (Meek/Vain) : Seeks no glory or recognition for their deeds / Boastful and self-satisfied, likes to hear about themselves.

8. Just / Arbitrary (Judgmental/Illogical) : Tells right from wrong, judging impartially / Makes decisions emotionally, using irrelevancies.

9. Trusting / Skeptical (Gullible/Suspicious) : Friendly and believes what they are told / Unfriendly and distrustful of what anyone says.

10. Merciful / Ruthless (Pitiful/Cruel) : Willing to help the weak, poor and even enemies / Unconcerned for feelings or pain of others.

11. Pious / Worldly (Sanctimonious/Blasphemous) : Concerned by spiritual implications / Cares only for the mundane and disrespects gods.

12. Temperate / Indulgent (Restricted/Greedy) : Takes only minimal food and drink / Enjoys excess food, drink and other delights.

13. Cheerful / Earnest (Frivolous/Gloomy) : Happy and generally jocular, given to pranks / Serious and often grim-faced, devoted to causes.

14. Talkative / Taciturn (Verbose/Brusque) : Outgoing and loquacious, talks legs off donkeys / Introverted and tight-lipped, using few words.

15. Optimistic / Pessimistic (Overconfident/Hopeless) : Believes outcomes will be good / Believes outcomes will be bad.

16. Enquiring / Reserved (Prurient/Uncaring) : Takes interest in details, even of others' business / Remains aloof from others, ignores details.

17. Courteous / Candid (Unctuous/Rude) : Polite, considerate and wary of upsetting others / Unafraid to cause offence with words or deeds.

18. Precise / Dynamic (Fussy/Careless) : Makes painstaking and detailed plans / Proceeds quickly without much preparation.

19. Some Other Trait (e.g. Aggressive/Passive, Stubborn/Receptive, Physical/Mental, Emotional/Calm, Leader/Follower, Witty/Dull, Dependable/Unreliable, Innovative/Conservative, etc.)

I also think explanations are needed, or they're prone to misinterpretation.

[SDLeary]

And now that we have these... and "Allegiance"<s>, its time to try and shoehorn the Pendragon magic system in! >:->

SDLeary

Here ya go (these are from the BRP rulesbook, not Pendragon):

Aggressive/Passive

Impulsive/Cautious

Extrovert/Introvert

Optimistic/Pessimistic

Stubborn/Receptive

Physical/Mental

Patient/Nervous

Emotional/Calm

Trusting/Suspicious

Leader/Follower

Greedy/Generous

Energetic/Lazy

Honorable/Dishonorable

Brave/Cowardly

Curious/Incurious

Dependable/Unreliable

Pious/Irreligious

Honest/Dishonest

Clever/Dull

Humorous/Dour

Innovative/Conservative

I think I'd probably go with a Cruel / Merciful and maybe a couple of others too.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,

Sarah

[AikiGhost]

I was thinking of using the passions in their normal way but also giving players a fate point per passion that is 18+, I think this gives players even more of a reason to stick to playing their PCs persona.

[NickMiddleton]

Purely off the cuff, but how about, rather than using the fate point mechanic and Allegiance (which is in some ways a fre-form variant of Pendragon's Passions rules), define some "ideals" - sets of say five traits that exemplify a particular ideal / philosophy / worldview and if a character who espouses that ideal has trait scores that qualify (16+ if 1-20 scale, 80+ if 1-100 scale, can't remember how BRP 0 does 'em but think it's 1-100) they get a benefit. Or even, for each qualifying trait they get a minor benefit, and for the full set they get an enhabced benefit?

Just a thought...

Nick

[Mugen]

Purely off the cuff, but how about, rather than using the fate point mechanic and Allegiance (which is in some ways a fre-form variant of Pendragon's Passions rules), define some "ideals" - sets of say five traits that exemplify a particular ideal / philosophy / worldview and if a character who espouses that ideal has trait scores that qualify (16+ if 1-20 scale, 80+ if 1-100 scale, can't remember how BRP 0 does 'em but think it's 1-100) they get a benefit. Or even, for each qualifying trait they get a minor benefit, and for the full set they get an enhabced benefit?

Just a thought...

Nick

This is the conclusion I reached about Legend of the Five Rings, in which 7 qualities essential for a samurai are listed, but rules only use one monolythic "Honor", whose signification depends on one's view on the subject.

[rust]

In my Pharos IV setting I use the traits as "cultural traits" to give the players

an impression which traits (behaviour, ideas, etc.) are typical for the cultures

of the various planets of the setting, and therefore have been a part of the

education of their characters, and now are expected of them by their fellow

citizens.

While the characters do not have to share these cultural traits of their home-

worlds, it gives the players an additional little help to imagine and play their

characters, and to understand their background universe.

To give an example, if a player has a Flexian Belter as his character, he knows

that Flexians are expected to be able to care for themselves, and that other

Flexian Belters will rarely offer to help him, because this might be seen as an

insult.

[frogspawner]

I was thinking of using the passions in their normal way but also giving players a fate point per passion that is 18+, I think this gives players even more of a reason to stick to playing their PCs persona.

Nice idea, but BRP Fate Points aren't the GM's to give (they are the Power Points you already have, just called Fate Points when spent in certain ways). See what you think of my mechanism, below, which may bend but hopefully doesn't break the BRP rules...

Purely off the cuff, but how about, rather than using the fate point mechanic and Allegiance (which is in some ways a fre-form variant of Pendragon's Passions rules), define some "ideals" - sets of say five traits that exemplify a particular ideal / philosophy / worldview and if a character who espouses that ideal has trait scores that qualify (16+ if 1-20 scale, 80+ if 1-100 scale, can't remember how BRP 0 does 'em but think it's 1-100) they get a benefit. Or even, for each qualifying trait they get a minor benefit, and for the full set they get an enhabced benefit?

Spookily close to a system I've just adopted! I defined, yes, five traits as "Virtues" for each religion/philosophy/whatever. Priests get minor benefits if they cultivate them; exemplary religious warriors (like RuneLords) get better benefits but have to stick to all of them, and more rigidly. Other characters can have them (one or two player-picked ones, but could be according to culture, if you like) and so are encouraged to play their chosen persona, because Virtues bring their own reward:

Make a "trait-roll" and a relevant skill is doubled for one attempt, in a suitable situation.

I've translated each trait into skill-like terms, and the players seem to understand and like it better. e.g. "Brave/Cowardly 70/30" would become "Brave 20%". That is, the amount above the 50% norm is the 'skill' percentage. The "trait skills" can gain increases as usual, except that when one has a tick (i.e. a skill-check against it) it can't be used until the increase roll is attempted (to stop them being used all the time!).

[sdavies2720]

Here ya go (these are from the BRP rulesbook, not Pendragon):

...

Impulsive/Cautious

...

Stubborn/Receptive

...

I've always thought that the opposite of "Impulsive" should be "Planned" rather than "Cautious". So a BEM with high "Planning" would have multiple contingency plans worked out, no matter whether he's cautious or aggressive. Someone with high "Impulse" would instead shoot from the hip, both for a plan of attack and a plan of retreat.

Stubborn/Receptive bothers me less, but I like Stubborn/Flexible better. Someone may or may not be receptive for a lot of reasons, but Stubborness/Flexibility reflects what they do with the information once they get it.

Steve

[AikiGhost]

Purely off the cuff, but how about, rather than using the fate point mechanic and Allegiance (which is in some ways a fre-form variant of Pendragon's Passions rules), define some "ideals" - sets of say five traits that exemplify a particular ideal / philosophy / worldview

Too limiting for my purposes, everyone is to be inspired by patron/ancestor spirits in this setting so each "Inspired" individual will be just that, an individual.

The idea would be that each character is trying to live up to the ideals of those of his line that have come before, but there are as many family lines as characters.

The idea would be to make it possible to be a highly powered lying cheating coward, because you are embodying the ideal of a spirit that has gone before that happened to have that world view.

I'm hoping to work in the Tribe 8 "Eminence" style Magic I was talking about last week and tie it into the passions.

[AikiGhost]

Nice idea, but BRP Fate Points aren't the GM's to give (they are the Power Points you already have, just called Fate Points when spent in certain ways). See what you think of my mechanism, below, which may bend but hopefully doesn't break the BRP rules...

I'm talking about FATE 2.0 & Spirit of the Century style FATE points not BRP ones (I don't have the BRP book yet)

[frogspawner]

I've always thought that the opposite of "Impulsive" should be "Planned" rather than "Cautious".

Stubborn/Receptive bothers me less, but I like Stubborn/Flexible better.

Yes, Cautious should be reserved for the positive-sounding opposite of Brave. Impulsive is a good one, it'll probably replace Dynamic on my "Precise / Dynamic (Fussy/Careless)" scale, but I still prefer Precise to Planned (though I feel there could be something better still out there, and I can't be bothered to fetch the thesaurus... ). And, yes, Flexible is better than Receptive, thanks.

[frogspawner]

Too limiting for my purposes, everyone is to be inspired by patron/ancestor spirits in this setting so each "Inspired" individual will be just that, an individual.

Not too limiting at all. Five traits selected from the full list is plenty to define the philosophy of someone's 'family line', if you need such a thing.

I'm talking about FATE 2.0 & Spirit of the Century style FATE points not BRP ones (I don't have the BRP book yet)

BRP Fate Points work in the way I outlined, which isn't compatible with the GM handing them out. I'm sure someone would be happy to tell you the details, so you don't have to make do with some other system :shocked: until your BRP arrives.

[NickMiddleton]

Too limiting for my purposes, everyone is to be inspired by patron/ancestor spirits in this setting so each "Inspired" individual will be just that, an individual.

The idea would be that each character is trying to live up to the ideals of those of his line that have come before, but there are as many family lines as characters.

So each family line has it's own set of "ideals" from the traits list? And perhaps each family / line has an Alleigance (family / Line) that works as per the BRP Allegiance, but each family / line has different sets of actions / behaviours that add allegiance? So you have both a set of ideals for a family / line that the character would strive to live up to, AND a set of specific behaviours that family tradition / loyalty would define as "right action"...

Cheers,

Nick

[AikiGhost]

Not too limiting at all. Five traits selected from the full list is plenty to define the philosophy of someone's 'family line', if you need such a thing.

Strokes and Folks, I wont be defining what traits a PC wants to pursue under any kind of strict category or in arbitrary groups of 5 or anything like that. The players will have total freedom to choose where they assign their randomly rolled passions and any passion high enough will give an appropriate benefit.

BRP Fate Points work in the way I outlined, which isn't compatible with the GM handing them out. I'm sure someone would be happy to tell you the details, so you don't have to make do with some other system :shocked: until your BRP arrives.

I completely understood what you said, its just I'll be using FATE style fate points anyway, I prefer how they work and I've decided I want to reserve the use of MPs for Magic.