Runequest 2 Rapiers

[Atgxtg]

 

12 hours ago, styopa said:

You're simply wrong. 

I said 

FWIW in your 30' example, RAW RQ2 a high-dex character (Dex SR0) COULD close 29.5' (9m) to melee an average-dex archer with a ready arrow before that arrow could be loosed (SR3).  Considering the RQ2 text about combat SRs being used simultaneously for movement, then that DexSR 0 toon could be hitting that archer before he fired in RQ too.

Very specifically I was discussing a high Dex character,  vs an average Dex archer (sr3 per RQ2 example of average). 

And yes I said  COULD,  depending on if the dm allowed (per that discussion) the combination of movement and readying weapon for striking (as I would probably for a thrusting weapon like a long spear).  He /she could easily have a melee Sr total of  3 or less with a Dex Sr of  0 (say a long spear and decent siz). 

Object all you want,  it's certainly possible, RAW, not nearly the impossibility you suggested in your original example. 

Frankly,  despite your desperate attempt to explain it away,  all this exercise did was increase my respect for Perrin's sense of realism as IRL guidelines for police are that a knife wielder should be considered a potential deadly threat even if you have a gun if he's within...  30 feet. 

Not according to the RAW. The RAW states that someone could combine movement with reading a weapon (i.e. the 5 Strike Ranks required to draw an arrow or ready a melee weapon)- not that it could be combined with the actual attack, or that it would allow them to ignore their SIZ SR. 

 

In the rule book under strike ranks it specifically states that: 

2. MOVEMENT - Any time 2 fighters meet in melee, no matter
how long they’ve traveled to get to that meeting, strike rank
should be figured out normally for them. However, time taken to
get from point A to point B should be taken into account when:
a. A character joins an already ongoing melee.
b. A character charges across the room at a foe using a spell
against him.
c. A character charges across the room at a foe using a missile
against him.

and that:
“PREPARING” A WEAPON
Changing a weapon or other tool for another takes 5 strike ranks.
This is an abstract convention which saves looking at a chart for
the number of strike ranks needed to pull out a sword as opposed
to drawing another arrow. Referees wishing to complicate their
lives may draw up their own chart of comparative preparation
times. Two things must be kept in mind:

and that:

Of course, at the referee’s option, the 5 points it took to
ready the bow and arrow could have been combined with the 3
points of movement.

 

So there is no way someone can move 10m and strike the bowman before he can hoot, since even someone with a SR of 0 (requiring a 19+ DEX, 22+ SIZ, and a 2m+ weapon) would still take 4 SR to reach the target. Even the 9m example you want to use requires a attacker character with a 19+ DEX, 22+ SIZ, and a 2m+ weapon, which pretty much limits the possibility to NPCs or Troll PCs with a few points or Coordination. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Atgxtg

[styopa]

7 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

So there is no way someone can move 10m and strike the bowman before he can hoot, since even someone with a SR of 0 (requiring a 19+ DEX, 22+ SIZ, and a 2m+ weapon) would still take 4 SR to reach the target. Even the 9m example you want to use requires a attacker character with a 19+ DEX, 22+ SIZ, and a 2m+ weapon, which pretty much limits the possibility to NPCs or Troll PCs with a few points or Coordination. 

How long do you want to keep going around in circles on this?

Your example was 30' (9.144m), not 10m.  So the first step would be to stop shifting the goalposts?

Second, you said specifically "... In RQ, thanks to SR's the guy with the crossbow is going to be able to get a shot off before that happens. In most cases he can even change his action  and "react" to the swordsman during combat and still get the shot off before being attacked."  To suggest that a melee toon with a spear* has to perform some sort of special gavotte to "stop", "wait X SR", then "strike" once he's 14cm from his target is nonsensical.  And you're complaining about the stilted artificiality of D&D combat?

*Dex SR 0 with any melee weapon of SR1 could be as small as size 7 and still have a combined melee SR of 3.  With a 2h long spear (SR0) they could literally be SIZ 1 and still have a melee SR of 3.

I merely pointed out that in RQ it was in fact possible that a high-dex melee attacker COULD engage an average-dex missile combatant before that combatant could release the shot.  It abundantly IS so.  It even reflects real-life. 

I'm not even arguing that RQ isn't better, of course it is.  Not sure why we're continuing to bother this thread with our tangent?

[Atgxtg]

The RAW simply doesn't work the way you claim. The combining actions outside of melee was never intended to sallow someone to combine movement with an attack to reduce his SR. There is no example of doing that in the RAW. Nowhere in the RAW does it say that someone with a melee weapon gets to act faster in the combat because hew as moving. In fact, it states the opposite. The example you quoted allowed someone to combine reading a weapon (specifically an arrow) with movement, but it still took the full 5 Strike Ranks to do so. 

 

 

[Noita]

Hands you both Rapiers, points at the dawn and sighs....

[styopa]

8 hours ago, Iskallor said:

Hands you both Rapiers, points at the dawn and sighs....

Happy to talk about rapiers.

[M Helsdon]

Surface-to-air Rapier

8-)

[Noita]

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

Surface-to-air Rapier

8-)

[g33k]

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Surface-to-air Rapier

8-)

waitWHAT??!?

Rapiers are associated with the Fire/Sky Rune?  Since when????   

I thought all swords had air/storm associations (+ Moon for curved "lunar" blades, + Death for straight "death rune" shaped blades) ... 

[styopa]

4 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Surface-to-air Rapier

8-)

Clearly, that's not even 1SR of movement.

[soltakss]

On 11/28/2016 at 4:24 AM, Iskallor said:

Hands you both Rapiers, points at the dawn and sighs....

They'd probably spend all their time arguing as to how the rapiers would work in the rules rather than having the duel.