[Mythras] Confusion with Reload Times

[Opiyel]

I'm reading through the RQ Firearms to use for my game, but one thing that confuses me is the reload time for weapons. In Mythras, a round is five seconds, but in RQ Firearms, it says that reloading takes three rounds for five seconds. I'm a bit confused as to why reloading something for five seconds takes three rounds? Thanks for any help.

[heathd666]

i dont have the pdf in front of me but mayby they are talking about blunderbus or flint locks i think they have several eras of firearms listed and it may be for those or something that missed editing. sorry i know not an answer

 

[Sean_RDP]

I don't have the book, but is it possible that :rounds" in this case means the actual ammunition? i.e. 3 pieces of ammo in 5 seconds?

[g33k]

59 minutes ago, ReignDragonSMH said:

I don't have the book, but is it possible that :rounds" in this case means the actual ammunition? i.e. 3 pieces of ammo in 5 seconds?

I suspect (very strongly) that this is correct.  A "round" is a single projectile for a personal firearm; there is simply a confusion of terminology between "correct" firearms and roleplay terms being identical in English.

[heathd666]

so after reading through from RQ Firearms

Quote

"Under combat conditions the former might take from 15 to 20 seconds (9-12 Turns) whilst the latter could be as fast as 5 seconds (3 Turns)

 

 

i have no idea how many turns equal a round i thought that rounds was the same as a turn. for example from page 12 they say that a flintlock pistol takes 4 rounds to reload which would be 20 seconds if 1 round equals 5 seconds from the mythras book page 5. thats extremly fast for a flintlock imho. for loading a clip in most semi auto weapons they say 3 rounds about 15 seconds i dont claim to be very knowledgable about firearms but i would have trouble trying myself to fully load my glocks clip and have it ready to shoot in 15 seconds. once again just my 2 cents. 

 

@g33k my copy of firearms list firearm load times as loads so may the original poster has an older version? or im not understanding the question and am way out in left field here  and if im misunderstanding Opiyel i apologize to making it even more complicated

Edited May 5, 2017 by heathd666

[Raleel]

Reloading times can vary wildly according to the type of weapon. Single shot black powder muskets will be far slower to reload than changing an ammunition magazine or power source. Under combat conditions the former might take from 15 to 20 seconds (9-12 Turns) whilst the latter could be as fast as 5 seconds (3 Turns).

what it's saying is that single shot black power weapons take 9-12 turns (I.e. You must spend 9-12 action points doing this, about 3-4 rounds) and changing an ammunition magazine takes 3 turns (or 3 AP, about 1 round)

if you look in the weapon charts, black power weapons do indeed take 4 rounds (specifically called out) and magazines re mostly in the 3 (implied is turns) range. 

A round is 5 seconds in Mythras. A cycle is a complete round of turns. A turn is the period of time when you can spend an action point for a proactive action, like reloading. A turn is a somewhat fluid measure of time, because people with 2 AP spend 2.5 seconds on them, and people with 3 AP spend 1.6667 seconds on them, and you can spend all your actions and end up missing a turn

[heathd666]

so rounds in mythras are different from rounds in RQ than? i thought that in mythras a round was the amount of time you spent with a AP so a action point was equal to 5 seconds?

[Raleel]

From the book: 

n order to ease bookkeeping but still reflect the differences in speed or numbers of attacks, fights are broken down into Combat Rounds of five seconds each.

And 

Once initiative has been determined, the participants have the potential to perform several Combat Actions during each Combat Round. The number of times they can act is equal to their Action Points, but when they can act is limited to whether the action is proactive or reactive.

Proactive actions can only be attempted on the character’s own Turn; that is to say, when it is his initiative.

and 

The end of the cycle is reached once every participant has taken their turn. If anyone still has Action Points remaining then a new cycle is begun for those characters with Action Points available. This continues until all available Action Points have been expended, at which point the round is over, and a new one begins.

so, no. Turns are subdivisions of rounds, measured as the time when you can take a proactive action if you have the resources (an AP) for it. It is entirely possible to run out of action points, nod thus do nothing on your turn, before your turn comes up. 

[Opiyel]

I've been trying to re-read over the reload rules in Mythras and I'm still left with a lot of questions. Do you have to spend an action point for each turn to reload, or do you spend one and that's it? If you have a weapon that reloads in three turns, but you only have 2 Action Points, do you just not finish reloading until the next round?

[Matt_E]

You have to spend an AP proactively on reloading.  Whether the reloading ends up taking one round or more depends on how you may have spent your other AP reactively, when next it's your turn to spend an AP proactively.

I try to avoid using the word "turn" in Mythras, as it often confuses.

Example 1:  You have 3 AP.  Your bow has a reloading time of 2 listed in the table.  When first it's your turn, you spend 1 AP proactively to fire.  You're far outside of melee combat, so nobody is near enough to attack you, which means you choose not to spend any AP reactively on defense (because there's no need).  The next time your turn comes around to spend proactively, you spend 1 AP on reloading.  The next time your turn comes around, you spend again, and your weapon is reloaded and ready to go.  You have spent 2 AP proactively to reload it, and 1 AP initially to fire it, totaling 3 AP spent, which means your character is out of AP for this round.  Firing and reloading has taken one round.

Example 2:  Consider the same scenario, but you are attacked, by an enemy firing his own weapon at you.  Suppose you have the initiative.  When first it's your turn, you spend 1 AP proactively to fire.  Then you are attacked at range; you have no cover, so you opt to Evade, at a cost of 1 AP spent reactively (not on your turn).  The next time your turn comes around to spend proactively, you spend 1 AP on standing back up.  Your enemy is reloading his own weapon, and nobody else attacks you--fine.

You have spent 1 AP proactively to attack, 1 AP reactively to Evade, and 1 AP proactively to stand back up, totaling 3 AP spent, which means your character is out of AP for this round.  You only got two turns this round, and you have not even begun to reload your bow.

From these examples, we see:

* Your character always has the same number of Action Points to spend in a round (of course).

* Your character does not always have the same number of turns (chances to spend proactively) in a round.  Sometimes you forsake a later turn to do something else first (like defend yourself).

* Therefore, your ranged weapon does not always get reloaded in the same number of rounds--which is a poor way to measure it, anyhow.

Understanding the "Action Point economy" is key to having smooth, fun combat in Mythras--whether or not anyone ever uses a ranged weapon. :-)

For example, the Special Effect Press Advantage suddenly takes on new significance, if you didn't have all of this straight already:  When your character gets to strike first, she can keep using Press Advantage every time she scores a SE, which means she gets to spend all of her AP on attacking that foe, and he is forced to spend all of his on defending*--!  Now, lots can happen with subsequent defensive SEs, but in a one-on-one fight, Press Advantage can be decisive.

 

*Assumes they have the same number of AP, or she has more

 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Matt_E

[g33k]

27 minutes ago, Opiyel said:

I've been trying to re-read over the reload rules in Mythras and I'm still left with a lot of questions. Do you have to spend an action point for each turn to reload, or do you spend one and that's it? If you have a weapon that reloads in three turns, but you only have 2 Action Points, do you just not finish reloading until the next round?

For certain slow-loading weapons, this would be "correct" (realistic); and relatively-realistic combat has long been a strength of the RQ/BRP family of games.

Many early guns were -- facing a charge from only medium range -- fire-once-and-set-aside weapons, with no realistic way to reload in combat.  At some times and places, there would sometimes be a row of reloader's behind the gunmen - their job was to take the discharged gun (to reload) and to have a ready-to-fire gun for the gunman.