Oversized Weapons

[Opiyel]

So my players recently came into possession of a longsword made for a creature that is SIZ 25, which means I stepped up the size and range of it by one step like in the Mythras Creature Section. I was curious though, does the damage dice and the ENC increase as well, and by how much? I feel a larger sword like that would be heavier, no? Thanks for any assistance.

[Raleel]

I'm going to go with yes on those. Lets take the minotaur, with an Enormous sized (two handed) axe, and size 22. His axe does 2d8+2+1d6, and he has a 1d6 damage mod. that says to me that both dice stepped up one level. Ogre is size 25. he uses a two handed club which does 2d8+str mod. 2h clubs at H size do 2d6, which also indicates a 1 step per die shift. 

so, i'm thinking 1 step per die per step up, just like size and reach. I'd also step up the ENC by 1 just for ease, though 2 is not irrational. longsword->2h sword is 2, but battle axe->great axe is 1. club->great club is 2. short spear->long spear is the same

[Matt_E]

Agreed.  Survey the tables in RAW, think about what you want to accomplish, and proceed by trends.  Its ENC may be the hardest to figure, and is a bit loosey goosey anyhow, but, yes, in general the bigger the size (damage, Force, Reach) of the weapon, the bigger its ENC--quite naturally.

I would not fret much over getting the ENC value "exactly right", though:  Any player who really, really wants her character to wield the biggest [whatever] in the land is not going to give a shit about ENC 6 versus ENC 4, for example. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Matt_E

[g33k]

I'm almost inclined to say "a sword is a sword is a sword" (modulo straight-vs-curved) and just treat this "oversized longsword" as a 2H-sword in all respects...

[Mankcam]

Perhaps Shad can muddy the waters even further for all of us: 

 

[Raleel]

He actually did a nice job of explaining a Large weapon versus a Huge weapon there, at least for human size. You can draw it from a hip sheathe and you can hold it at roughly your diaphragm and it won't hit the ground. 

As far as "a sword is a sword" I might even do that at the table if I hadn't looked it up previously and asked the same question myself

[g33k]

On 7/20/2017 at 5:20 AM, Raleel said:

He actually did a nice job of explaining a Large weapon versus a Huge weapon there, at least for human size. You can draw it from a hip sheathe and you can hold it at roughly your diaphragm and it won't hit the ground. 

His key point seems to be that size-of-blade vs size-of-wielder is the key determinant.  A sword is a sword; a larger person can use a big blade as a "longsword" while a smaller one might need to use it as a "greatsword."

On 7/20/2017 at 5:20 AM, Raleel said:

As far as "a sword is a sword" I might even do that at the table if I hadn't looked it up previously and asked the same question myself

He makes an excellent point that a "true" greatsword cannot make use of a great many of the "longsword" techniques (and in turn does have techniques available that would be less-effective if a longsword were used).  But again:  if the wielder were sufficiently large, they could use that "Greatsword" identically to how a smaller person uses a "longsword."

Returning to the OP's query, and continuing my own "treat it like a greatsword" comment:  an element of the SIZ-25 wielder's "longsword" that might differ from a "greatsword" is the absence of any ricasso.  The palm of the normal-sized person's gauntlet may need a bit more reinforcing to half-sword freely...

 

[hkokko]

This was a great video - thnks. It explains really well whynthere would be diffence in combat styles. It brings the question - how should we handle oversized weapons (2h, polearm...) in narrow places. Reach handles the distance well but how about width - wide swings required by polearms, 2h axea, mauls, tree trunks) - perhaps requires wider area for single wielder giving possibly more opponents for him or making it so that only one person (the one wielding wide). Perhaps also induces penalty for attack if too narrow corridor etc...

[Matt_E]

From the Old Bones adventure Secrets of Blood Rock:

This natural shaft is irregular, but generally about 2.5 meters in diameter. Characters may walk two abreast in most places. Large swung weapons are at a disadvantage: Except for thrusting weapons like spears, each step of Reach above Medium penalizes Combat Style by one grade.

This elegant mechanic was suggested by Loz himself, during editing.

[hkokko]

On 7/22/2017 at 9:04 PM, Matt_E said:

From the Old Bones adventure Secrets of Blood Rock:

This natural shaft is irregular, but generally about 2.5 meters in diameter. Characters may walk two abreast in most places. Large swung weapons are at a disadvantage: Except for thrusting weapons like spears, each step of Reach above Medium penalizes Combat Style by one grade.

This elegant mechanic was suggested by Loz himself, during editing.

Couple of questions then: 

1. Would one consider that

2.5m is "generic" fighting space for both the walkers (stepping back and forth, ducking etc) so 2.5 meter is "narrow" space from "large swung weapons" perspective.  It would be my interpretation because 1.25meter would be very narrow for example from great sword perspective but could fit other weapons...

2.  what would be considered non thrusting weapons here. At first I thought that anything which is not a spear. Clear cut would be all mauls, clubs, axes, basically all weapons that do not impale. If one does impale (but does other special effects as well) there are some that clearly need more space (greatsword, 2 handed use of any sword or similar). But what about Katana, longsword 1 handed, no dachi, yari, tepoztopilli...)

Edited July 24, 2017 by hkokko

[Matt_E]

1.  I had in mind side by side walkers with Medium-reach weapons, like clubs or broadswords.  If you were to try to swing a big weapon in that space, you would have to be all by yourself, without anyone standing next to you.  In real life, swinging a greatsword or great axe normally in that space would be impossible, I think.  You would hit the walls.  That's what the penalty is meant to reflect.

2.  I would say that any weapon with the Impale SE could be a thrusting weapon, but in this case you would have to declare in advance that you were using it that way.  Interestingly, in Mythras (but not all other d100 rules) a greatsword is an impale weapon...!  As long as you specify up front that you're poking, and don't try to choose Bleed later, I would allow it.  If you have a weapon like a spear or trident that only has the Impale option, then I would dispense with the formality and not make the player declare up front--common sense.

There is nothing sacrosanct about the distance of 2.5 m; that was the size of the passage in that adventure, so it was on my mind when I wrote down the penalty.  It seems about right, but you might impose the same penalty for a 3-m-wide hall, and you might make it worse for a 1.5-m hall (anything above Short Reach, instead of Medium).

Edited July 24, 2017 by Matt_E

[hkokko]

added these to the weapon charts 

Comments welcome...

 

[Raleel]

One again spear and shield prove to be very strong. No penalties, impale, thrown, set, best defense, best damage in class, all reaches covered. 

THIS IS SPARTA!

[Matt_E]

Yes.  One of the triumphs of Mythras is that its modeling of combat makes spears and shields powerful, instead of "inferior weapon and +1 to AC".