Guide to Glorantha Group Read Week 16 - Ralios

[David Scott]

Index - https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6558-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-index/

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This week we read Ralios. The threads this week are divided into Safelster, Vesmonstran and East Wilds

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6865-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-16-safelster/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6866-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-16-vesmonstran/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6867-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-16-east-wilds/

 

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https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6864-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-16-deep-discussion-ralios/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6843-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-16-corrections/

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This is the end of Volume 1 of the Guide to Glorantha Group Read. You can now proudly wear your own homemade Lhankor Mhy beard . If you didn't manage the whole thing and just dipped in and out you can still wear your own homemade Lhankor Mhy beard, who am I to stop you. Don't have a LM beard - Making your own Lhankor Mhy beard as a GtG reward. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by David Scott

[metcalph]

p374 - the text sorts out a major confusion about Arkat.  Namely his death at the hands of Palangio was not the same event as his confrontation at Kartolin.  

[davecake]

I already made my own LM beard the old-fashioned way. But perhaps I should have a formal overbeard. I do have a couple of worn friends who have crocheted themselves excellent beards. 

[davecake]

On a related note, I noticed last night that Irripi Ontor sages have a cult stricture to never leave a wrong statement uncorrected. Presumably only the ones who use the Moon Rune as Truth, not the ones who use it as Illusion. But still, the thing that strikes me is that Irripi Ontor sages are the masters of "Well, actually...", endlessly interrupting to note some small inaccuracy. It's my new roleplaying note for them (even the lying Illuminated ones I'm sure still have the mental habit).

any resemblance to some long term participants in Glorantha fandom surely entirely coincidental. 

[jajagappa]

Reading through the Ralios chapter, I'm filled with that feeling that here is a whole other interesting part of Glorantha that I'm unlikely to ever have an opportunity to explore.  Yet it seems like a rich area where the theistic and sorcerous worlds overlap along with lingering elements of Hykimi spirit folk, the largest Aldryami forest, great enclaves of trolls who send forth the Swarm, and the Nidan dwarves.  A great war with Seshnela is imminent.  Five Arkats (or more!) are about to be unleashed.  And there are a whole host of secretive underground organizations.

I do hope that someone does run with this background and put together something fascinating.

[jajagappa]

This will likely trigger a Deep Discussion thread, but figured I'd post here first on the Arkat Tracts on Gbaji as these are just quick notes on what I found new and different.

"Acting on the words of the Old Man, Arkat sought another route over the mountains." - who was the Old Man?  A companion?  A local?  Someone in the God Plane?

"In his lust for vengeance he swept like a hurricane through Saird" - good opportunity in Saird to rediscover some remnant/relic of this march.  A great tumulus (or barrows) with the buried remains of a battle or famed chieftains killed in battle?

"The parts of the Deceiver were buried separately as far away as the Elder Wilds, hidden in distant places by Arkat’s allies." - perhaps the source of the Festering Isle, or the River of the Damned?  Does Ralzakark hire a party of adventurers to seek out hidden "treasure" in the Elder Wilds - a task he doesn't trust his broo or chaotic allies to do?

"The peoples of Acos mustered their strength to fight the evil god, though some had been corrupted by his lies, and fought for him instead" - sounds like Arkat gathered dwarfs to his cause.  And that there were dwarfs corrupted to the cause of chaos as well - dwarfs who may have their own nefarious plans for the "World Machine".

"He held the mightiest weapon in the world, a sword forged in Lodrilela [the Land of Fire]" - does Lodrilela exist in the mundane world or the God Plane (or both)?  Is it reached deep within the Vent?  Might be a reason for Arkat to land near Esrolia if that is the case.  

"the Liberator came, son of the Storm God and a queen of the Brithini" - though this may simply indicate the passage of Arkat from Brithini to initiate of Orlanth/Humakt, it would be interesting if his mother actually encountered the Storm God himself.

"the race of half-demons which plagued the land for many centuries after" - surely some line of these half-demons persists into the present.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

This will likely trigger a Deep Discussion thread, but figured I'd post here first on the Arkat Tracts on Gbaji as these are just quick notes on what I found new and different.

"Acting on the words of the Old Man, Arkat sought another route over the mountains." - who was the Old Man?  A companion?  A local?  Someone in the God Plane?

The Old Man may well have been Harmast, or his knowing companion.

I found the notion strange that Arkat had cleared Fronela of these perverted followers, but wasn't able to move towards Dorastor.

To my knowledge, Arkat never has been in Fronela. If he had been, he would have led an army through Brolia into Dorastor, just like the Harmast/Talor combo ultimately did.

 

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

"In his lust for vengeance he swept like a hurricane through Saird" - good opportunity in Saird to rediscover some remnant/relic of this march.  A great tumulus (or barrows) with the buried remains of a battle or famed chieftains killed in battle?

Sweeping through like a hurricane sounds more like he left some significant ruins than like leaving a significant tumulus. But then, when Harald Hardrada burnt down Hedeby in 1050, he also left the Busdorf runestone next to the embers of that city, so why not a monument above a heap of ashes.

 

 

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

"The peoples of Acos mustered their strength to fight the evil god, though some had been corrupted by his lies, and fought for him instead" - sounds like Arkat gathered dwarfs to his cause.  And that there were dwarfs corrupted to the cause of chaos as well - dwarfs who may have their own nefarious plans for the "World Machine".

Greatway had been part of the Unity Council, and was among those who gave birth to Osentalka. They continued to aid Nysalor in his struggles with Arkat, or how else would the Dara Happan general Derigonus Pistol have arrived at his unusual epithet (and presumably weapon)? (He probably had Nilmerg servicing this flintlock item for him.)

I think that the Greatway Mostali sought a way to re-awaken Mostal or Stone through this cooperation.

The Mostali don't blame the destruction of the Spike on Chaos - they blame High King Elf, armed with the Axe of Death (shaped like that from the Sword of Death by Mostal himself, which had previously killed Flamal when wielded by Zorak Zoran), instead. As they blame Umath for throwing the sky dome out of order before.

 

I find it amusing that they call the land of volcanoes "Srvuela" when the volcanoes are as much a mixture of Fire and Earth as are the Storm Burtae. They are so in a Lamarckian way, however, inheriting a change that Lodril took upon himself when he wrestled that squirming thing deep in the earth.

 

The last of the three tractises, titled "Arkat the Liberator", tells us the early history of Arkat in some detail. Using the name "Gbaji" for Arkat. One of those "King of Sartar" moments still inside the Guide to feed the über-geeks, hidden in one of the In-World documents.

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

"He held the mightiest weapon in the world, a sword forged in Lodrilela [the Land of Fire]" - does Lodrilela exist in the mundane world or the God Plane (or both)?  Is it reached deep within the Vent?  Might be a reason for Arkat to land near Esrolia if that is the case.

 

To me, this sounds as if this sword was the Flamesword, forged for the king (of Seshnela, i.e. Gerlant) who had the dream not to trust the god (Gbaji=Arkat), the same king who ordered the Mostali of Belstos to equip himself and his Men-of-All with iron. That Flamesword might have come from the citadel of Sog City, which arguably could be called Lodrilela.

 

This text is really weird in places, though:

Quote

When Gbaji left Ralios he crossed the Wall of Rock into the land of Srvualela, ...

When Gbaji was ready, his followers in Ralios urged the men into war against Seshnela. The kingdom was hard-pressed to hold its lands. The soldiers were divided about the war, since the followers of Gbaji were still active in the kingdom. Thus the war continued for a long time, and both lands were lessened in the fighting.

So, after Arkat and Harmast departed, the Safelstrans banded together to attack Seshnela? I find no trace of this in the timelines.

Quote

And so Ralios was in confusion when the krjalki entered the land through Kartolin (ruled by a son of Gbaji). The krjalki gathered in secret, and did not wait long to attack. They razed Srotolin, for with the army away in Seshnela there were none but women, children, and old men to defend it, and they did not last long against the demons. The men were killed, but many of the women were forced to yield to the caresses of the krjalki, and so was formed the race of half-demons which plagued the land for many centuries after.

Sounds like a counterstrike from Dorastor, under the Dara Happans. This time with Nysaloreans as "followers of Gbaji"?

Quote

When the men of Ralios heard this, they retreated and rushed to defend their homes. Soon fighting broke out between the city-states, incited by the krjalki and by wolf demons sent by Gbaji in the shape of men. In Telmoria the cult of Gbaji had taken over so completely that there was hardly a person in the land without Chaos blood in him.

Many of the cities were able to hold out against the krjalki, though they all fought losing battles for many years. Such was the situation when the Liberator came, son of the Storm God and a queen of the Brithini. He turned the wolfmen back into wolves, and sent them far away, then freed the cities, one by one, from the krjalki.

The Liberator was true to his father’s heritage. His body was as tall as a spear and as hard as iron, and his laughter turned the clear noon sky into thunder. The sword he wielded was as strong as he was, and unmatched in all the world. He knew the Deceiver represented all that was dark in the world, and he was dedicated to the light.

The Liberator followed the secret enemies of Gbaji, who led him to a secret way over the Wall of Rock ...

Altogether, this sounds very much like Talor's march through Ralios and over Kartolin, rather than any activity of Arkat (aka Gbaji, who already had left for Srvuela).

Altogether a very, very confused text.

 

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

"the Liberator came, son of the Storm God and a queen of the Brithini" - though this may simply indicate the passage of Arkat from Brithini to initiate of Orlanth/Humakt, it would be interesting if his mother actually encountered the Storm God himself.

 

Or it describes the parentage of Talor (possibly through Harmast adopting him)?

 

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

"the race of half-demons which plagued the land for many centuries after" - surely some line of these half-demons persists into the present.

Maybe this is a general slur against people descended from the Dorastan settlers who encroached on the Vustrians and their Hykimi allies, then reinforced by Derigonus Pistol's counterstrike across Kartolin.

 

[jajagappa]

47 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The Old Man may well have been Harmast, or his knowing companion

Possible, though I hate putting everything on him/them.  Grandfather Mortal could be another possibility, or the Old Man from Scene 24.

51 minutes ago, Joerg said:

strange that Arkat had cleared Fronela of these perverted followers, but wasn't able to move towards Dorastor

Might just mean there was a Fronelan Liberator (Talor?) who had no interest at the time in going farther, or who was slain in the Charg/Brolia region after which the effort fell apart until Harmast came with Talor.

53 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Sweeping through like a hurricane sounds more like he left some significant ruins than like leaving a significant tumulus.

Those too.

55 minutes ago, Joerg said:

To me, this sounds as if this sword was the Flamesword, forged for the king (of Seshnela, i.e. Gerlant) who had the dream not to trust the god (Gbaji=Arkat), the same king who ordered the Mostali of Belstos to equip himself and his Men-of-All with iron. That Flamesword might have come from the citadel of Sog City, which arguably could be called Lodrilela.

That all makes sense.

56 minutes ago, Joerg said:

this sounds very much like Talor's march through Ralios and over Kartolin, rather than any activity of Arkat (aka Gbaji, who already had left for Srvuela).

Certainly given the laughter.

57 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Or it describes the parentage of Talor (possibly through Harmast adopting him)?

Quite possible.  I don't think we have a lot of Talor's history.

[metcalph]

57 minutes ago, Joerg said:

This text is really weird in places, though:

Sounds like a counterstrike from Dorastor, under the Dara Happans. This time with Nysaloreans as "followers of Gbaji"?

Found in the Fortunate Succession p20 with comment on p92

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Or ["the Liberator came, son of the Storm God and a queen of the Brithini" - PHM] describes the parentage of Talor (possibly through Harmast adopting him)?

The Storm God is Humakt (and there may be some confusion with Humat).  Since these are late texts composed a thousand years after the original events, errors in the text (like Arkat's mother becoming a Queen) are understandable.

[Joerg]

2 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Might just mean there was a Fronelan Liberator (Talor?) who had no interest at the time in going farther, or who was slain in the Charg/Brolia region after which the effort fell apart until Harmast came with Talor.

Given the confusion in the "Arkat the Liberator" text which has the deeds of Arkat (and Nysalor) attributed to Gbaji (which is quite correct according to my "mask between them" pet theory) and the deeds of Talor attributed to Arkat the Liberator, this might be just a continuation of that 

 

1 minute ago, metcalph said:

The Storm God is Humakt (and there may be some confusion with Humat).  Since these are late texts composed a thousand years after the original events, errors in the text (like Arkat's mother becoming a Queen) are understandable.

The Liberator in this text is recognisably Talor the Laughing Warrior rather than the Arkat that was returned in 420 by Harmast's first LBQ. That's why I wondered whether this description of the parentage might apply to Talor rather than Arkat.

Both Talor and Gerlant have been called "son of Arkat", obscuring their parentage. It is quite possible that the author of this pamphlet was less informed than we are, but I find this adoption of Talor as "the Real Arkat" amusing.