Really high skills (skills over 100%)

[deleriad]

IIRC it reduced parry and defense at the same time. I don't remember whether 100%+ parry reduced an attack skill.

[Atgxtg]

"Skreech, we want our heirloom ba-"

 

Oh, sorry. I checked RQ2 and it seems to just be attack that reduces parry. probably because attack was the "active" skill. Wasn't there a Parry in RQ1 that got dropped somewhere along the way. Suddenly something to boost parry seems important. Or, now that A&P are rolled into one skill,  does Bladesharp just raise the weapon skill and not just the attack?

 

[PhilHibbs]

6 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

. Or, now that A&P are rolled into one skill,  does Bladesharp just raise the weapon skill and not just the attack?

Blade sharp increases chance to hit, so you get the bonus twice if you split. I think that was always the case, but I once had a GM rule against it, on the basis of "where does the extra magical energy come from". 

Edited June 14, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[simonh]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Blade sharp increases chance to hit, so you get the bonus twice if you split. I think that was always the case, but I once had a GM rule against it, on the basis of "where does the extra magical energy come from". 

That was probably me. I'd be ok with it now.

Edited June 14, 2018 by simonh

[PhilHibbs]

6 minutes ago, simonh said:

That was probably me. I'd be ok with it now.

I don't think it was you, but maybe, you were doing a physics degree at the time. 

[deleriad]

10 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Oh, sorry. I checked RQ2 and it seems to just be attack that reduces parry. probably because attack was the "active" skill. Wasn't there a Parry in RQ1 that got dropped somewhere along the way. Suddenly something to boost parry seems important. Or, now that A&P are rolled into one skill,  does Bladesharp just raise the weapon skill and not just the attack?

As written, Bladesharp won't increase the chance to parry with the weapon likewise Dullblade won't decrease the chance to parry because it does specify "chance to attack." 

[Atgxtg]

Is there any spell in RQG to increase Parry? Other than increasing your Characteristics?

[deleriad]

16 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Is there any spell in RQG to increase Parry? Other than increasing your Characteristics?

Parry. Although it only works on shields. 

Axe Trance refers to axe skill so presumably affects both attacking and parrying with axes. 

I'm not aware of any others. There are presumably some sorcery skill boost spells which will affect the skill rather than specifying to hit or to parry.

[Unferth]

4 minutes ago, deleriad said:

Axe Trance refers to axe skill so presumably affects both attacking and parrying with axes. 

There's also a Sword Trance (rune) spell that works the same way for swords.

[Atgxtg]

Sounds like both Axe and Sword Trance sound better than Berserk. 

[Unferth]

13 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Sounds like both Axe and Sword Trance sound better than Berserk. 

I think it depends on how many MP you have to dump into them. They're both +10% skill per MP spent on top of the rune point, so it can take a lot of MP to match Berserker on a high skill character. They don't come with the negative side effects of Berserker, though - or the stacked con boosts and countermagic, or the extra power versus Chaos.

[Atgxtg]

7 hours ago, Unferth said:

I think it depends on how many MP you have to dump into them. They're both +10% skill per MP spent on top of the rune point, so it can take a lot of MP to match Berserker on a high skill character. They don't come with the negative side effects of Berserker, though - or the stacked con boosts and countermagic, or the extra power versus Chaos.

OH! Now that's new. In the old days Rune Magic was mostly separate from magic points. I though they worked like Arrow Trace works (or at least how it used to work) by doubling the skill. 

[Unferth]

58 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

OH! Now that's new. In the old days Rune Magic was mostly separate from magic points. I though they worked like Arrow Trace works (or at least how it used to work) by doubling the skill. 

It's a somewhat similar design to the RQ2 Chalana Alloy "Heal Area" spell - which also survives into RQ:G as the universally available rune spell "Heal Wound", though without the option to spend multiple Rune points to reduce the MP cost. (The Chalana Alloy cult has even stronger healing rune spells, as does Ernalda. I don't think they'll feel let down that other people can access Heal Wound.)

None of Axe Trance, Berserker, or Sword Trance are widely available, for what it's worth - unless I've overlooked something skimming through, they're only available through the Babeester Gor, Storm Bull, or Humakt cults respectively in the core book.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Unferth

[Atgxtg]

10 hours ago, Unferth said:

It's a somewhat similar design to the RQ2 Chalana Alloy "Heal Area" spell - which also survives into RQ:G as the universally available rune spell "Heal Wound", though without the option to spend multiple Rune points to reduce the MP cost. (The Chalana Alloy cult has even stronger healing rune spells, as does Ernalda. I don't think they'll feel let down that other people can access Heal Wound.)

Ah. 

10 hours ago, Unferth said:

None of Axe Trance, Berserker, or Sword Trance are widely available, for what it's worth - unless I've overlooked something skimming through, they're only available through the Babeester Gor, Storm Bull, or Humakt cults respectively in the core book.

Well, if I'm up to speed with the new rules, wouldn't that mean anybody who wanted to could start with them just by joining one of those cults and taking said spell in chargen with one of their rune points? 

[Unferth]

Just now, Atgxtg said:

Ah. 

Well, if I'm up to speed with the new rules, wouldn't that mean anybody who wanted to could start with them just by joining one of those cults and taking said spell in chargen with one of their rune points? 

Oh, sure, they're available at creation if you want. But you probably won't have a group all using such spells. And the Trance spells affect only the caster, so spreading them around is not an option even if you have the rune points and MP to spare.

They're certainly high end offensive magic, no argument there.

[soltakss]

22 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Sounds like both Axe and Sword Trance sound better than Berserk. 

Not if you worship Storm Bull.

Sure, some spells are better than others, but not all spells are available to all cults, only Common Spells.

If another cult has a better spell than yours, then you are welcome to jump ship and join that cult, for the better magic. That seemed to happen in Glornatha, for example with Elmal/Yelmalio. However, that is very much a case of playing the rules rather than the background. I wouldn't join a cult based on the magic I got, I did that with RQ2 Humakt and wouldn't do it again. 

[Atgxtg]

Oh sure. I wan't speaking in game. Just game mechanics. With the "Anti-parry" rule, I was wondering what's out there to boost parry skill, other than enhancing a characteristics (DEX, STR, INT), and the various Trance spells came up because they boost weapon skill, which now covers both A&P.

Although, in game, everything else being equal, a Humakti with Sword Trance now seems to have the edge (😎) on a Zorak Zoran worshiper with Berserk.  If the Humakti can keep his parry skill from getting nerfed, it's a very different fight. 

 

[soltakss]

7 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Oh sure. I wan't speaking in game. Just game mechanics. With the "Anti-parry" rule, I was wondering what's out there to boost parry skill, other than enhancing a characteristics (DEX, STR, INT), and the various Trance spells came up because they boost weapon skill, which now covers both A&P.

Ah, I see. Well, there were always good spells and poor cousins. Crush was worse than Truesword at low levels, but better at high levels, and Crush increased attack chance. Resurrection was better than Seal Spirit. Crush was better than Slash, but Slash gave higher damage. Arrow Trance was great for bows but rubbish for everything else.

In older versions of RQ, the Parry Battle/Spriit magic spell was the only thing that increased Parry, but was only available to certain cults.

Although, in game, everything else being equal, a Humakti with Sword Trance now seems to have the edge (😎) on a Zorak Zoran worshiper with Berserk.  If the Humakti can keep his parry skill from getting nerfed, it's a very different fight. 

If a Zorak Zorani with Crush 10 manages to hit, the Humakti would be in trouble. As trolls are big, a sufficiently dextrous one with a troll maul hit on SR1 or SR2 and could wallop the Humakti big time. A berserk Zoran Zorani would also have a high attack skill, assuming that Berserk behaves in much the same way, I haven't rechecked all the spells.

 

 

[Atgxtg]

18 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Ah, I see. Well, there were always good spells and poor cousins. Crush was worse than Truesword at low levels, but better at high levels, and Crush increased attack chance. Resurrection was better than Seal Spirit. Crush was better than Slash, but Slash gave higher damage. Arrow Trance was great for bows but rubbish for everything else.

In older versions of RQ, the Parry Battle/Spriit magic spell was the only thing that increased Parry, but was only available to certain cults.

Oh Yeah. I'm not judging here, just going over the ramifications of the "anti-parry"

Quote

If a Zorak Zorani with Crush 10 manages to hit, the Humakti would be in trouble. As trolls are big, a sufficiently dexterous one with a troll maul hit on SR1 or SR2 and could wallop the Humakti big time. A berserk Zoran Zorani would also have a high attack skill, assuming that Berserk behaves in much the same way, I haven't rechecked all the spells.

If the Zorak Zorani with Crush Zero manages to hit, the Humakti would be in trouble. But my thought is that say, you got two fighters @100% skill. The Troll casts Berseker and ups his Maul Attack to 200%. The Humakti casts Sword Trance and ups his Sword Skill  to 200%. The troll still has to get past a 100% parry (after reduction) while the Humaki's 200% attack is unopposed. Now, if I had to fight Berserk trolls in melee,  that the sort of situation I'd hope for. Again, just considering the ramifications of the RAW.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Atgxtg

[styopa]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

that is very much a case of playing the rules rather than the background. I wouldn't join a cult based on the magic I got, I did that with RQ2 Humakt and wouldn't do it again. 

I'd suggest gently that if the incentives in the mechanics promote/reward different choices than the behaviors in the setting (at least for the tiny demographic of adventuring characters), then the incentives in the mechanics are likely flawed.

[Pentallion]

So a starting character can do this right?  Sink 3 POW into rune points at chargen to have a 6 pt rune pool then extension 5 sword trance sinking idk assuming the sunk their best stat into power say 12 mp into sword trance giving them +120% to attack and parry for a year, which if added to their starting skill lets say 80% puts them at 200% for the next year?

Starting character?

Or am I making an error?

[Unferth]

1 hour ago, Pentallion said:

So a starting character can do this right?  Sink 3 POW into rune points at chargen to have a 6 pt rune pool then extension 5 sword trance sinking idk assuming the sunk their best stat into power say 12 mp into sword trance giving them +120% to attack and parry for a year, which if added to their starting skill lets say 80% puts them at 200% for the next year?

Starting character?

Or am I making an error?

That appears technically legal. I think if there's a real problem there it's with Extension rather than Sword Trance. Year-long Bear's Strength is pretty ridiculous too, just for one further example. I liked the idea I saw suggested here disallowing recovering the rune points (and maybe MP?) until the extended spell ends.

Sword Trance is still only a one point rune spell - at least, I don't see any suggestion that Extension or the multiple MPs invested would also make the spell harder to dispel - so a 1-point Dismiss Magic or 2-point Dispel Magic deals with this. But it does seem a bit over the top until that's dealt with.

Or, of course, the GM tells the player not to do that. But I don't like rules that require too much of that.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Unferth

[PhilHibbs]

4 hours ago, Unferth said:

That appears technically legal. I think if there's a real problem there it's with Extension rather than Sword Trance. Year-long Bear's Strength is pretty ridiculous too, just for one further example. I liked the idea I saw suggested here disallowing recovering the rune points (and maybe MP?) until the extended spell ends.

I'd definitely rule that for the Rune Points, but not for the MP. RQ3 for example stated "Reusable spells that are extended cannot be regained at a temple until the spell's duration expires." As to dismissing Extension... not sure about that one! I have ruled that it does stack up in previous editions of the game.

Another Sword Trance question is, does it all of the affect the recipient's Sword skills, or just one specific selected skill? For instance, if they have a separately raised offhand Sword skill.

And yes, getting Extension and using it is very much as intended.

[Narsham]

One correction to the conversation here that I think a few people need: Berserker (in RQG) does not double your attack skill. It increases attack skill rating by half again (+50% of the skill). See pg 320 of the rules.

[Atgxtg]

34 minutes ago, Narsham said:

One correction to the conversation here that I think a few people need: Berserker (in RQG) does not double your attack skill. It increases attack skill rating by half again (+50% of the skill). See pg 320 of the rules.

Isn't that the same as Fanaticism?