rune magic Command and Summon mechanics

[Zodgrod]

Hello,
Having just converted some "RQ2.5" characters playing Eleven Lights over to the new RQG, got a bit confused about Rune Magic...especially summons:

We have a character who has Summon Air Elemental.  He's got 3 Rune Points dedicated to in Orlanth Adventurous as a very novice adventurer.

1. Does he really have to cast X level Summon followed immediately by Command Cult Spirit for 2 Rune Points to control said Elemental?  This seems to be the explicit instructions in most parts of the rules but Summon Elemental seems to imply that control for the summoner is automatic.

2. I (the GM) was planning on having the same PC roll up the stats for the Elemental the first time he summoned one from each size category.  Thus, eventually he'd establish a "stable" of 3 elementals  - assuming he acquired the ability to cast Summon Large Air (ex: as a Storm Voice).  Any flaws in my logic?  How are the rest of you handling this?

3. Number 2 made me think of a more fundamtal question: when a character sacrifices a point of power to gain a rune point and chooses to "learn" a cult variable spell (ex.  Summon XYZ), I had presumed that he was learning a variable version of the spell.  Thus he could cast it at whatever level he chose once he'd gained access to it.  Is this as intended?

Thanks!

James

[jps]

I don’t think that once you’ve summoned an elemental (or any creature) that the control is automatic: you summon it and then you control it or else it gets loose. So if you want to summon a large elemental you will have to control it.

[Scott A]

1 hour ago, Zodgrod said:

Hello,
Having just converted some "RQ2.5" characters playing Eleven Lights over to the new RQG, got a bit confused about Rune Magic...especially summons:

We have a character who has Summon Air Elemental.  He's got 3 Rune Points dedicated to in Orlanth Adventurous as a very novice adventurer.

1. Does he really have to cast X level Summon followed immediately by Command Cult Spirit for 2 Rune Points to control said Elemental?  This seems to be the explicit instructions in most parts of the rules but Summon Elemental seems to imply that control for the summoner is automatic.

Yeah, he has to cast command cult spirit. Summon Elemental explictly says that "Once summoned, an elemental acts according to its nature and cult affiliation, unless an appropriate Command Cult Spirit spell is cast and the elemental’s POW overcome by the caster"

 

1 hour ago, Zodgrod said:

2. I (the GM) was planning on having the same PC roll up the stats for the Elemental the first time he summoned one from each size category.  Thus, eventually he'd establish a "stable" of 3 elementals  - assuming he acquired the ability to cast Summon Large Air (ex: as a Storm Voice).  Any flaws in my logic?  How are the rest of you handling this?

That sounds fine. I'd let the player summon new elementals if he wants to.

1 hour ago, Zodgrod said:

3. Number 2 made me think of a more fundamtal question: when a character sacrifices a point of power to gain a rune point and chooses to "learn" a cult variable spell (ex.  Summon XYZ), I had presumed that he was learning a variable version of the spell.  Thus he could cast it at whatever level he chose once he'd gained access to it.  Is this as intended?

Yes, that's how it's intended to work with rune spells in general. Summon Elemental is a bit of an exception, because the your cult and subcult can put a limit on the size of elemental you can summon. Orlanth Thunderous initiates can summon up to large elementals, while other orlanth subcults can only go up to medium, if I recall correctly.

 

[Skovari]

I also think they expect you to make binding items for your summoned spirits and elements and have them ready to go.  Then in a combat you only need to release and command it.  Not cast a summon spell also

Which leads me to wonder if I summon an elemental and bind it into an item, do I get the rune points back as the summons is not finished?  This is in reference to the new rune rule document.

[PhilHibbs]

4 minutes ago, Skovari said:

Which leads me to wonder if I summon an elemental and bind it into an item, do I get the rune points back as the summons is not finished?  This is in reference to the new rune rule document.

Interesting question, but I don't think so. If you want to spend 10 POW on 10 binding enchantments, I don't think you need 10 Rune Points as well.

[Pentallion]

The summons is finished once the creature appears.

[simonh]

2 hours ago, Pentallion said:

The summons is finished once the creature appears.

Right, but a command spell with extension would tie up Rune points because it’s a ongoing spell effect.

[Skovari]

52 minutes ago, simonh said:

Right, but a command spell with extension would tie up Rune points because it’s a ongoing spell effect.

Once you command the elemental into the binding item the command would be done also I would think.  No need to extend it at all.  You would then later on release it and cast a new command spell I think.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Skovari

[Skovari]

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Interesting question, but I don't think so. If you want to spend 10 POW on 10 binding enchantments, I don't think you need 10 Rune Points as well.

Well I would think you need the 10 rune points to summon the elementals.  But then they would come back as the summons really is finished at that point as someone else pointed out.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Skovari said:

Once you command the elemental into the binding item the command would be done also I would think.  No need to extend it at all.  You would then later on release it and cast a new command spell I think.

That would be my approach.

[PhilHibbs]

6 hours ago, Skovari said:

Well I would think you need the 10 rune points to summon the elementals.  But then they would come back as the summons really is finished at that point as someone else pointed out.

If you want to summon them all at once, yes.

[Skovari]

10 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

If you want to summon them all at once, yes.

Yes of course.  You could fill them over the course of many seasons.  But regardless it still takes 10 rune points over some period of time to do, which is what I was trying to say.  And a whole bunch of permanent POW to create 10 binding echantments!