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Tolkienish Elves, Melniboneans, etc.


fmitchell

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The elves in BRP (and RuneQuest before it) are smaller but faster than humans. I'm working on a new campaign, and I'd like a race of "elves" that look more like Tolkien's (but act more like Melniboneans).

1. Would anyone who has Stormbringer or Elric! handy mind telling me what the STR, CON, SIZ, INT, POW, and DEX of a Melnibonean is?

2. Has anyone done any work on Tolkien-style "High Elves" in BRP? (Warhammer-style, Pratchett-style, or bloody-nearly-any-fantasy-novel-style would also work.)

Thanks,

Frank

P.S. If anyone's interested: in the campaign, the PCs are orcs, who once had a mighty civilization laid low by their own hubris and now live a barbaric lifestyle. Renaissance-level humans and the mysterious ruin-dwelling "elves" are their enemies. Orcs have a complicated relationship with the Forest Folk, who take the forms of animals or short -- dare I say dwarfish? -- humanoids.

Frank

"Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG
 
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The elves in BRP (and RuneQuest before it) are smaller but faster than humans. I'm working on a new campaign, and I'd like a race of "elves" that look more like Tolkien's (but act more like Melniboneans).

You need Runequest stats for elves then. Some of them are more Tolkienesque than Melniboneans.

Edited by Conrad
http://www.basicrps.com/core/BRP_quick_start.pdf A sense of humour and an imagination go a long way in roleplaying. ;)
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SB5:

Melnibonean - min/ave/max

STR 2d8+2 - 4/11/18

CON 2d8+2 - 4/11/18

SIZ 2d8+4 - 6/13/20

INT 2d8+8 - 10/17/24

POW 2d8+8 - 10/17/24

DEX 2d8+4 - 6/13/20

APP 2d8+8 - 10/17/24

Half Melnibonean - min/ave/max

STR 2d8+2 - 4/11/18

CON 2d8+2 - 4/11/18

SIZ 2d8+3 - 5/10/19

INT 2d8+5 - 7/13/21

POW 2d8+5 - 7/13/21

DEX 2d8+3 - 5/10/19

APP 2d8+5 - 7/13/21

Edit: To add min/ave/max

Edited by Chaot

70/420

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*digs around*

Elfquest Wolfriders - min/ave/max

STR 2d6+2 - 4/9/14

CON 2d6+6 - 8/13/18

SIZ 2d3+1 - 3/5/7

INT 3d6 - 3/10.5/18

POW 2d6+6 - 8/13/18

DEX 2d6+9 - 11/16/21

APP 2d6+6 - 8/13/18

RQ3 Elf

STR 2d6+2 - 4/9/14

CON 3d6 - 3/10.5/18

SIZ 2d4+4 - 6/9/12

INT 3d6+6 - 9/16.5/24

POW 2d6+6 - 8/13/18

DEX 3d6+3 - 6/13.5/21

APP 3d6 - 3/10.5/18

Note: I did the min/ave/max quickly. I believe my math is correct, but you may want to run it yourself. I include it because it gives me a better idea of how the dice fall and hope it will be beneficial to you.

70/420

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You need Runequest stats for elves then. Some of them are more Tolkienesque than Melniboneans.

Not really. The Aldryami of RQ are motile plants, and they're the basis (stat-wise) for BRP elves: smaller than the average human (SIZ 9 vs SIZ 13), and quicker. Tolkien's elves were taller than humans and generally "better", somewhat like the Melniboneans.

However, from the stats posted, it looks like I could get a quick approximation for my version of elves by using the STR, CON, and SIZ for humans, and the INT, POW, and DEX of BRP elves. (Melniboneans have a higher POW, but my version of elves aren't necessarily more magically powerful. Also, in the riitual magic system I'm devising, more POW doesn't make you a better magician, it just allows you to survive the consequences of your rituals.)

Thanks to everyone.

Frank

"Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG
 
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I'm working on a new campaign, and I'd like a race of "elves" that look more like Tolkien's (but act more like Melniboneans).

2. Has anyone done any work on Tolkien-style "High Elves" in BRP? (Warhammer-style, Pratchett-style, or bloody-nearly-any-fantasy-novel-style would also work.)

Thanks,

Frank

Hi Frank,

I am working on the player races for my ME-BRP project right now. Am an still transcribing and working with the stat's for Elves, but currently in my notes I have them as follows:

STR 2D6+6 13-14 MOVE: 14

CON 1D6+12 16-17 HP: 16-17

SIZ 3D6+@ 12-15

INT 3D6+3 16-17

POW* 3D6+6 14

DEX 2D6+12 19

APP 3D6+6 16-17

@SIZ of an adult Silvan elf male is 3D6+1, and adult Sindar elf male is 3D6+2, and an adult Noldor elf male is 3D6+3. SIZ of an adult Silvan elf female is 3D6+4, and adult Sindar elf female is 2D6+5, and an adult Noldor elf female is 2D6+6.

*Noldor and those Sindar that have been to Aman (The Undying Lands of the West across the bended sea) receive a +9 bonus to their POW due to their interaction with the Valar, ie the POW is 3D6+9.

Hope that helps. :thumb:

Cheers,

Fergo113

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I agree with much that has gone before.

RQ (and BRP) stats for Elves do a grand job of putting numbers to sentient, motile plants but not Melniboneans/Menastrai/Vadhagh/Eldren/Eldar/Sidhe/Fae/Eldarin

The author of MRQ's Elric games is on these boards so I'll leave it to him to post (or not) his rules for them. As with Chaosium's version they use d8s not d6s (for quite cool mechanic/background linky reasons) which may nor may not suit.

For myself I use the following for the grandeur type Elves

Human Eldren

APP 3d6 10 3d6+3 13

CON 3d6 10 3d6 10

DEX 3d6 10 3d6+3 13

INT 3d6 10 3d6+6 16

POW 3d6 10 3d6+6 16

SIZ 3d6 10 2d6 7

STR 3d6 10 3d6 10

(Humans left in coz cut and paste from a doc and too lazy to delete them)

In an ME setting genuine Light Elves would have higher Int and Pow (and possibly App) scores

Went and came back add +6 each

Went and coming back on a mission +12 each

Went and stayed +18 each

Al

Edited by Al.

Rule Zero: Don't be on fire

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The author of MRQ's Elric games is on these boards so I'll leave it to him to post (or not) his rules for them. As with Chaosium's version they use d8s not d6s (for quite cool mechanic/background linky reasons) which may nor may not suit.

Eightway arrows of Chaos, probably.

For myself I use the following for the grandeur type Elves

		Human		Eldren

APP	      3d6	10	3d6+3	13

CON	     3d6	10	3d6	10

DEX	     3d6	10	3d6+3	13

INT	      3d6	10	3d6+6	16

POW	     3d6	10	3d6+6	16

SIZ	      3d6	10	2d6	7

STR	     3d6	10	3d6	10

Hm, your Eldren are still smaller than humans, although I guess that fits the Erekose saga.

Looking at the height-weight charts in the latest BRP book, it looks like SIZ has more to do with height/length than actual weight. I'd probably give my elves at least the same SIZ range as humans, if not a few points more: taller, but more slender.

Frank

"Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG
 
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I agree with much that has gone before.

RQ (and BRP) stats for Elves do a grand job of putting numbers to sentient, motile plants but not Melniboneans/Menastrai/Vadhagh/Eldren/Eldar/Sidhe/Fae/Eldarin

I disagree, I think Elric!/Stormbringer/Corum did a fantastic job of statting up

Melniboneans, Menastrai and Vadhagh. The Menastrai stats were done by

Loz Whitaker - referenced below.

The author of MRQ's Elric games is on these boards so I'll leave it to him to post (or not) his rules for them. As with Chaosium's version they use d8s not d6s (for quite cool mechanic/background linky reasons) which may nor may not suit.

I don't think Loz would mind posting of the numbers. There is so much more

to generating a Melnibonean character.

STR 3d8 (drop lowest die) + 2

CON 3d8 (drop lowest die) + 2

SIZ 3d8 (drop lowest die) + 4

DEX 3d8 (drop lowest die) + 4

INT 3d8 (drop lowest die) + 8

POW 3d8 (drop lowest die) + 8

CHA 3d8 (drop lowest die) + 8

I'll see if I can find the Elric! values, they differ slightly from SB5.

-V

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I'm working on a new campaign, and I'd like a race of "elves" that look more like Tolkien's (but act more like Melniboneans).

1. Would anyone who has Stormbringer or Elric! handy mind telling me what the STR, CON, SIZ, INT, POW, and DEX of a Melnibonean is?

2. Has anyone done any work on Tolkien-style "High Elves" in BRP? (Warhammer-style, Pratchett-style, or bloody-nearly-any-fantasy-novel-style would also work.)

Thanks,

Frank

P.S. If anyone's interested: in the campaign, the PCs are orcs, who once had a mighty civilization laid low by their own hubris and now live a barbaric lifestyle. Renaissance-level humans and the mysterious ruin-dwelling "elves" are their enemies. Orcs have a complicated relationship with the Forest Folk, who take the forms of animals or short -- dare I say dwarfish? -- humanoids.

This game definitely isn't BRP: Houses of the Blooded - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Houses of the Blooded It uses the FATE system. But the rules (adapted as much as possible for BRP, of course) and ideas would be perfect for adapting to the domestic lives of Melniboneans. I've bought it and started reading it. So far it seems it be just what it's advertised: great for political and court intrigue games. The pdf only costs $5 USD

Edited by Dredj
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This game definitely isn't BRP: Houses of the Blooded - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Houses of the Blooded It uses the FATE system. But the rules (adapted as much as possible for BRP, of course) and ideas would be perfect for adapting to the domestic lives of Melniboneans. I've bought it and started reading it. So far it seems it be just what it's advertised: great for political and court intrigue games. The pdf only costs $5 USD

It's on my list, although I'm saving up for the dead tree version.

In the game I'm planning, though, the "elves" are mysterious, external threats: a dying people who are more than happy to take others down with them. (Inverting a few tropes, there are *no* female elves, and they can't interbreed with humans.) These are Melniboneans from the perspective of the Young Kingdoms.

Frank

"Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG
 
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Hm, your Eldren are still smaller than humans, although I guess that fits the Erekose saga.

Looking at the height-weight charts in the latest BRP book, it looks like SIZ has more to do with height/length than actual weight. I'd probably give my elves at least the same SIZ range as humans, if not a few points more: taller, but more slender.

Which I agreed with for a long time (+3 Siz for Melniboneans in old Stormbringer) until no lesser person than Mr Perrin himself told me (quite politely) that I was talking utter toss and that SIZ = non-linear scale mass, end of discussion.

One of RQIIs appendices talked about having mass SIZ and height SIZ and using them for different calculations. Later versions do not bother presumably on the grounds of playability.

So I now do Dwarves Siz = 3d6 and Elves Siz = 2d6

Al

Rule Zero: Don't be on fire

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I disagree,

Quite possibly I wasn't clear enough when I said 'and BRP' I meant 'and the new BRP compendium which just uses the old RQIII Elf stats and which I assumed we were discussing' not 'and all the variant BRP rules ever published'

I think Elric!/Stormbringer/Corum did a fantastic job of statting up

Melniboneans, Menastrai and Vadhagh. The Menastrai stats were done by

Loz Whitaker - referenced below.

I agree, and mine above were 'inspired' by the Elric! versions.

Al

Edited by Al.

Rule Zero: Don't be on fire

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Which I agreed with for a long time (+3 Siz for Melniboneans in old Stormbringer) until no lesser person than Mr Perrin himself told me (quite politely) that I was talking utter toss and that SIZ = non-linear scale mass, end of discussion.

One of RQIIs appendices talked about having mass SIZ and height SIZ and using them for different calculations. Later versions do not bother presumably on the grounds of playability.

So I now do Dwarves Siz = 3d6 and Elves Siz = 2d6

My take is that the SIZ characteristic doesn't strictly correlate with weight or height; partly, it's your ability to use your weight and height to advantage. Dwarfs (in RQ) have a handicap in that they're so compact; (RQ-sized) elves are longer-limbed but lack the physical mass to shove people around and avoid being shoved around in turn.

SIZ contributes to HP because a larger creature has more volume to burrow through. I guess if they're all made of meat, approximate mass is a decent indicator ... but a dwarf-sized creature of stone might be several times heavier without having much more in the way of SIZ. (Armor, certainly.)

Granted, a dwarf from D&D or Warhammer who's as wide as he is tall probably rates a 3D6, but "dwarf" as a stout humanoid 4 feet tall (e.g. Glorantha or Discworld), just like a 5 foot but spindly elf, is somewhere in the 2D6 + (0..3) range. An average Melnibonean or LotR Eldar might be more lightly built, but he's taller than a human, so it all washes out.

Edited by fmitchell
s/Tolkien dwarf/D&D dwarf/

Frank

"Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG
 
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For completeness:

Elric! Melniboneans:

STR 2d8 + 4

CON 2d8 + 4

DEX 2d8 + 4

SIZ 2d8 + 4

INT 3d8 + 8

POW 3d8 + 8

APP 2d8 + 8

-V

Just a note of (slightly weaselly) caution the Elric! stats are for comparison with humans rolling 2d6+6 for stats. So if you are using 3d6 for human stats then Melniboneans might be more like:

STR 2d10

CON 2d10

DEX 2d10

SIZ 2d10 (or remain 2d8 + 4 if human SIZ 2d6+6 a la RQIII)

INT 4d8 (or remain 3d8 + 8 if human INT 2d6+6 a la RQIII)

POW 4d8

APP 3d8

Al

Rule Zero: Don't be on fire

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I can't really see SIZ 2 Melniboneans.

If you wanted to use the Elric stats then they work.

RQ3 had stats for Green Elves who are taller than normal ones.

Otherwise, I'd make them up. You have to be careful what you want out of them, though.

The danger is saying that elves are taller than humans, quicker that humans, cleverer and more powerful than humans, more charismatic than humans and so on. That's all well and good, but you have to decide whether elves are on average better than humans or on average better than most humans.

Also, elves in worlds such as Discworld will be different to elves in Middle Earth.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

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