Religious conversion

[Morien]

Merlin is explicitly Pagan again in GPC, Gamemaster Characters. The traits are the same as in KAP 5.2, although the religion is not explicitly mentioned in that book. UTHER p. 40 states: "...Merlin was baptized a Christian at birth, yet he follows the mysterious “Old Ways” of the ancient druids,",i.e., Pagan.

In Boy King (4E), he was Grail Christian with BOTH Pagan and (Roman) Christian Religious Traits underlined. IIRC, Greg explained it somewhere that in order to qualify for the Religious bonus, you had to have conflicting traits at perfect 10/10,  and non-conflicting ones at 16+. This version is clearly not the same as the British Christianity.

In 4th edition, which didn't make the distinction between BC and RC, has Joseph of Arimathea & Grail with the exact same text as what Atgxtg quoted above. This despite the fact that clearly 4E Christianity = 5E Roman Christianity.

However, it looks like Greg ditched the whole Grail Christianity idea. If we look at GPC, during the Castle of Joy adventure, all the kinsmen of King Fisherman are simply labelled 'Christian'.

So IMHO, British Christianity is NOT Grail Christianity (4E), but GC has been ditched and replaced by BC in 5th edition.

 

[Atgxtg]

8 minutes ago, Morien said:

So IMHO, British Christianity is NOT Grail Christianity (4E), but GC has been ditched and replaced by BC in 5th edition.

That's pretty much what I thought, except the GC is in some ways absorbed into BC with the link to the Grail and Joe of A. 

If GC officially still exist as a distinct version of Christianity I would love to know about it., but I just thought that the idea was replaced and expanded upon with BC-which has historical roots. 

[Hzark10]

23 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

If GC officially still exist as a distinct version of Christianity I would love to know about it., but I just thought that the idea was replaced and expanded upon with BC-which has historical roots. 

Here is the info I was referring to:  Greg's old website: http://www.gspendragon.com/essays.html

Under Grail Christianity, you will find a link to an essay Greg approved for Grail Christianity. He also incorporates an addition and that is the Love (Grail) Passion.  Make sure you also read this. This is approved for KAP 5.2

[Atgxtg]

55 minutes ago, Hzark10 said:

Here is the info I was referring to:  Greg's old website: http://www.gspendragon.com/essays.html

Under Grail Christianity, you will find a link to an essay Greg approved for Grail Christianity. He also incorporates an addition and that is the Love (Grail) Passion.  Make sure you also read this. This is approved for KAP 5.2

Thanks. I'll look it over. One thing I noticed though is that Greg didn't write it, Matthew DeForest did.So it's basically an add on. 

[Craiger]

On 4/20/2019 at 1:04 PM, Atgxtg said:

Yeah, although with the Grail procession a conversion might not have been required. It's an item that has as much Pagan history to it as Christian. A lot of British Christian stuff in KAP is a mix of the two religions.

That is true! I actually had to give the idea some thought before I made the decision. But my knight was not very religious to begin with, and thru role play and roll play, nothing came up to indicate to him what it what exactly he was seeing. (Those who dwell in the Castle of Joy can be very close-lipped  ) All my knight knew for sure is that he was in a place that was perceived to be a Christian stronghold, and that his fellow knights (who were Christians,) told him it was a miracle from God. So, I decided to use the momentum to create an interesting story line.

[Atgxtg]

Works for me. He works in mysterious ways, etc.

[7dot62mm]

I believe Grail Christianity is also covered in the Great Book of Pendragon treasures?

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, 7dot62mm said:

I believe Grail Christianity is also covered in the Great Book of Pendragon treasures?

It seems to give a lot of information on the original of and possible means of the Grail, but I didn't find it as an actual religion.

looking at the article on Greg's website, it isn't written up as a separate religion there. It more a like a specialized form of Christianity as it doesn't give a "religious bonus" but instead is something that Christians can aspire to. So it looks like a character could be a Grail Christian and still be a British Christian. Mixing it with Roman Christianity also seems possible but probably a little more complicated, as the Grail and the Joseph of Aramithea story isn't part of church dogma. At least not at first. It might become more accepted later in the campaign, much like how the Grail eventually became accepted as a fact to people in the middle ages. 

 

 

[Tizun Thane]

Did any of you use Grail Christianity in your campaigns ? I always feel that it was a confusing concept, very "new age", and not very practical for the game.

[Morien]

I have not. Then again, I already feel that there are too many sub-categories of a Christian, so I went with simply vanilla (Roman) Christianity for all the Grail stuff.

[Atgxtg]

Most of my players and games haven't really been about religion. My players want to play heroic knights and adventure. My current campaign has featured religion more prominently than most, and that's only because I started so early that the Pelagian Heresy is a significant thing, and the Druids are "gone". But, by the time I reach the Uther Period,  I will expect the Christian Schism to fade and the Druids to be reestablished, and religion will probably go back to being window dressing. 

[Hzark10]

I played a Pagan Grail/Cauldron Knight during one of my campaigns as a player. The gm was trying out some new things and it seemed to work relatively well, but things got political and so it kinda faded into the background before it reached a climax.  

[Atgxtg]

57 minutes ago, Hzark10 said:

I played a Pagan Grail/Cauldron Knight during one of my campaigns as a player.

What did you have for a religious bonus if anything? It looks like the article your linked to treats it as something other than a religious bonus, which is kinda nice as it opens the door up for Pagan Grail characters too, as you seem to have done.l 

57 minutes ago, Hzark10 said:

The gm was trying out some new things and it seemed to work relatively well, but things got political and so it kinda faded into the background before it reached a climax.  

That's the danger with religion in game. It can divide the group along religious lines. I've got a little of that happening now.