DrGoth

Thanks All! Very helpful.

I think Gloranthan theism (like many things) is not one-dimensional. There is definitely a transactional aspect to it. Otherwise why sacrifice in the hope of getting a good harvest? Or access to rune spells. But there is definitely a genuine devotional side to it as well - hence the relevant passions. The combination will be different in different people and different societies.

Another question in my random potterings through things (hope I'm not annoying anyone with these questions). So, I saw the the following in a Well of Daliath posting from Jeff (https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/city-culture/) "Alone is culturally more like Wintertop than Alda-Chur. Alda-Chur is more like Dunstop than it is like Alone. Ponder that." and "Note that Sartarites view those from the Alda-Chur region as “strangers” and not “rivals” or “enemies”." The above Well of Daliath article refers to a facebook post, where someone (I think LordAbdul, apologies if I'm wrong) said " the different/varying languages and traditions and vibes". This sounds right to me. The Far Placers trace back to Tarsh, or even further west. Most Sartarites trace back to Esrolia. Even though they are all Orlanthi. But do we know anything about how those traditions/vibes actually differ? If a player character from the main part of Sartar heads north, what do you tell them is noticeably different to home? Or the converse, if a Far Placer heads south? Is it dress/food/architecture/art/decorations/tattoos/customs/the way sacrifices are performed? The basic culture is the same (Orlanthi). I can see it would be difference can the centuries of separation forced by the Dragon Kill. And how, exactly, does it differ? Have the Far Placers been influenced by Peloria/Dara Happa/Lunars? I can't see any details in the Guide or elsewhere. It would be nice to give players concrete information. Any suggestions or pointers to material welcome.

We are all Us. And that includes Uz.

For a free (non-paywalled) report see https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/apr/07/bronze-age-people-hallucinogenic-drugs-menorca-study

There's this too https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/battle-of-the-queens/

Sometimes it's referred to as The Battle of the Queens and sometimes as The Battle of Queens. The sourcebook (p.41) gives its location as "where the Creek meets the Upland Marsh" The same wording can be found in King of Sartar, (p. 155 in the original print version, p.128 in the current electronic version). KoS has the Sartarites "were outnumbered but held a good position". The sourcebook expands on that with "The Sartarites held a good defensive position at the base of Old Top Hill" (p.42). Interesting it's the base and not on the hill. Unfortunately the Sourcebook's index only lists "Battle of Queens" and then refers to Kallyr's death (p. 209) and not the earlier reference (p41-42). You can also find the battle's location in the portion of Vasana's saga in the base rulebook on p.19. It's marked on the map there (ref. pt 0). Here, is again referred to as "The Battle of The Queens".

Every time I look at Hedkoranth's name I want to read it as 'Headcase'.

Darkened Darkened? Clouded? Lacking that ruddy glow of health?

The enchantment spells push the totals up. My reading of the rules is that they each count to the limit as well. Specialist subcults would up it again. From the base rulebook I think Chalana Arroy, Ernalda, Eurmal (all those remove body part spells), Orlanth and I may have missed some have more than 21. Here's a question. Let's say I sacrifice to the limit of the number of spells that are available in my vicinity. Then I sacrifice some more just to get extra points to cast things with. Then I find a subcult with a spell I don't know. I'm assuming you'd have to sacrifice for another point to get that spell, but someone might say "Hey, there are these points for which I didn't get a spell. Can I have this one now?" Obviously the GM could choose to go either way, but I think the rules as written say no.

Rain is still a thing, but that might be parts of water that follow the path into the sky rejoining the water with a connection to the Heart of the Seas. The headwater being an important place where they come together.

All I'm saying is that if there are 5,500 in 1627, there are at least that many in 1626. In 1627 the Elmali are still probably looking sheepish about Harvar. if they haven't all decamped to Sun County. "Elmal? Elmal? Never heard of that guy. We worship Yelmalio. Always have. That's what Monrogh said, anyway." Sounds of Ex-Elmali furiously polishing their breastplates.

Well the articles match for numbers listed in one as being 1627 and match with what Jeff just gave, so....

With them so tight with Lunars under Harvar are you sure it's impossible? But if there are none in the Tovtaros, it doesn't effect the numbers much. In fact, if the rough tribe size in Alda Chur is 9k (I think that's right), then you 4.5k adults including 500 Seven Mothers Initiates (Plus their share of those in Alda-Chur). Still seems to wind out at about the 12% (at least for those three tribes). And that's a 1627 figure.

Inter and intra

Been perusing the Well of Daliath and just wanted to check some conclusions. https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/seven-mothers-in-sartar/ gives some figures for "ballpark numbers for the Seven Mothers in Sartar." For Alda-Chur and its tribes it gives: Alda-Chur 500 Dinacoli 500 Princeros 500 Vantaros 500 Interestingly, no separate figure for the Tovtaros, but there is a "Other Tribes 1200". So maybe 100 for the Tovtaros? So that would give a total of 2100. I assuming these initiates are spread amongst the tribes of the clans, not heavily concentrated in one or two clans. The total in that article comes to 5500, which matches the 5500 from: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/joining-the-seven-mothers/ where it says "As of 1627, there are perhaps 5,500 Seven Mothers initiates in Sartar, the vast majority of them native Sartarites." So I'm assuming the first article is also talking about 1627. The first thing I noted was that the second article said initiates. Not lay members. The Guide to Glorantha, vol 1, page 173, gives a total population for the Alda-Chur area of 35k. That would be adults and children. Taking an admittedly rough 50% as adults, that would give 17.5k adults. Which gives about 12% of the adult population as Seven Mother initiates. A minority, but a not inconsiderable one. I think it would be fair to assume that 12% is an average, and that some clans would have less and some more. In the latter case, possibly up to 20% of the adult population are Seven Mothers initiates, if I'm right in assuming a spread amongst all clans. That would give an interesting political dynamic to those clans and tribes. And the play opportunities that would go with that.

It may be one of those things that, if you want it in your campaign, you can come up with the reason why. To be honest I find Brangbane a little unlikely as the cause. If that happened, it wouldn't just be the Colymar fighting them. There are all sorts of other reasons you could come up with. A feud gone out of control. A contest for some magical prize. Heroquesters bumping in to each other. A dispute over the spoils of war. Perhaps they temporarily (?) sided with the Lunars and they happened to line up against each other in battle. There's all sorts of possible reaons.

Variation, yes,. but the highest victor loss reported in that paper was 10% deaths and the highest loser death percentage was 25%. So a 30% for the victors feels a little unlikely.

I always liked the balance of one of Wakboth/Kajabor being pinned under the block and the other being defeated by the Gods in the Underworld. Although another way to look at it is the difficulty of understanding what the hell (pun intended) happened at all. The monomyth is not Truth (with a capital T). It's just one way of looking at things (and not necessarily a good way). The Kralori and Malkioni, for example, having very different takes. Chaos is Chaos and the Godtime isn't something with fixed continuity. My bet is you could heroquest and 'prove' either take true. But for the stability of your world view, if it is theistic, it needs to account for what happened to both Wakboth and Kajabor. I can see any of the following one of them beat the other, the winner faced Storm Bull, the loser went to Hell and lost to the assembled Gods (double knock out for that one) one of them beat the other, the loser was off the scene (annihilated?), the winner got done by the Spike, went to Hell and lost to the assembled Gods Interestingly, either of those means whoever the Gods fought in Hell had already lost somewhere else (either to the other of Wakboth and Kajabor or to the Spike/Storm Bull)

When you look at the paper the losses varied wildly from battle to battle. Which is no real surprise. I think we've been conditioned to think defeat in such battles = anihilation. The research says it didn't. I trhink what you might have is armies disintegrating as units dissolved, but the individuals getting away.

Thanks Jeff, and thanks to all the others for answering what I thought was a little question! So my reading of that is that decay is a product of Time, without any bacteria or their analogue behind it. It has no relation to disease, whatever the situation in this world may be. I think that says some very important things about Time in Glorantha and is another useful reminder of how the Myths make things different from here. It also makes the point Soltakss made about heroes very interesting: That really does, to me, say something about heroes who don't decay. We know (at least I think we know) that one thing heroes can do is achieve immortality. That is, their body doesn't age (or, in another view decay, if you take age to be a form of decay). They are changing their relation to Time on their way to Apotheosis? To me that would mean immortality is not a fun byproduct of being a Hero, but an important part of it.

There' still all the Sun Domes in Peloria.

Not an inspiration, more information. Some very interesting info on Ancient warfare: Krentz, P. (1985). Casualties in hoplite battles. Greek, Roman, and Byzantine Studies, 26(1), 13-20. https://grbs.library.duke.edu/article/viewFile/5321/5325 TLDR: on average, winners of ancient battles suffered 5% deaths, losers suffered 14% deaths

Yes, CoP was a big part of what got me into Glorantha, so some really nice stories binding all the cults in a book together would be great! Of course, for the Lunar book, they could just use the Lives of Sedenya for the story/binding text, and I'd be happy.

"All diseases are caused by spirits, magic, curses, etc. I am not sure what a “naturalistic” disease would be." Jeff October 8, 2020. It's stated in many places that diseases are caused by spirits. Does that apply to infections as well as disease? And, if so, what causes decay? If it's spirits, are they Malia's disease spirits. And then, does that mean decay is regarded as chaotic? And, b y many cultures a bad thing? Or maybe my initial assumption is wrong, and not all disease spirits are Malia's?