DrGoth

Yep, those famous brothers Orlanth and Yelm 😉

Heroes can become immortal. So any of the heroes (both named in the material and PC) could easily live that long.

Like a lot of debatable points like this, it has some good seeds for play. A lot have already been mentioned. Another could be PCs rescuing what they can of the Telmori and helping them flee elsewhere. It could be an important point at which the players relationship with Argrath changes - either deepening or weakening.

You're right - I got myself mixed up. The map I referenced is the only map of the Roman road network and only a copy. There is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dura-Europos_route_map I'm guessing the one in Orange you mean is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_cadastre_d'Orange It's a much much smaller scale than the other two

Check out https://www.dailysabah.com/life/travel/hittite-village-in-central-turkey-takes-tourists-back-in-time-to-daily-life-in-hattusa Recreation of a Hittite village in Turkey. Which Gloranthan culture do you think this is closest too?

Thanks!

How does this material fit with the RQ3 Dorastor publications?

Cults of Prax (p.66) says "Eye-whisper said he detected the ragged ghost of Alain, sword of Humakt, plaguing the consciousness of the healer. I recalled that Humakti had prepared an expedition against broos active in the Sog's Ruins." He was organising an expedition there, which was the cause of his duel with Naimless. While it's not explicitly stated in CoP that he died in Sog's Ruins, still proceeding with his expedition after losing the duel, it's a reasonable conclusion

I think it breaks down a bit before that 😉

Doesn't mean she won't be back.

In Storm Tribe (yes, I know, not canon anymore) she is referred to as the "Goddess of Revenge and Terror". Not just Revenge. Her depiction there is far darker than the RQ3 Gods of Glorantha, where she is simply the "Holy Avenger". In Storm Tribe there are ritual markings described for everything up to annihilation of an entire clan. So, depending on when that Healing Valley reference was first conceived, it could fit. In many ways I find the Storm Tribe description a far darker (no pun intended) cult than either Humakt or ZZ. And a bit silly, too, with the centrality of beer.

Another point of comparison is Roman maps. No actual Roman map survives, but see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_Peutingeriana for a 13th century document which is believed to be a copy of a Roman original. I think it's also intersting to note its a map of the Roman road network. To quote the article "It is a very schematic map (similar to a modern transit map), designed to give a practical overview of the road network, as opposed to an accurate representation of geographic features"

He's whatever you want him to be for the needs of your story. Same goes for your questions about the Lunars. The more interesting question to me is, once you've decided what you want,what is the best way to develop it. So for each of the the answers you propose, what is the best way to frame it to make an enjoyable game?

That's if your story goes that way. I really think reading 'KoS' as uncontestable fact is dangerous, It's a Gloranthan document (or series of them). And even if you think it's accurate, it's only accurate for the 'Sartarites as heroes' version of how Glorantha can go. The Lunar book would have been very different. So sure, you can tell a story where the Empire was always the monster empire underneath. But not every story has to be that. Why are we even arguing this? One of the great things of Glorantha is that so much of it is presented as in world subjective, rather than objective from the outside, documents. We can each put our interpretations on them and tell the stories we want. You might prefer variants where certain people/sides/povs are good/evil. But that doesn't mean another story can't do something completely different.

Ideally I'd like to see at least two Hero Wars Campaigns, one from the Sartarite viewpoint, one from the Lunar, and following very different trajectories. In each, the side that is followed should be the 'winner'.

Sure it wasn't Kallyr that was supposed to be Orlanth (after Broyan)? Step forward Broyan - YOU shall embody Orlanth (Oh bugger, he's dead) Step forward Kallyr - YOU shall embody Orlanth (What? What do you mean she's dead as well? Oh well, there's always that one) Step forward Argrath - YOU shall embody Orlanth (What? No, no, I'm sure he's got nothing of Storm Bull in him. What could possibly go wrong?)

Does that mean the Red Emperor is part of the cosmic order? So when he goes missing something is out of whack? Or to look at it another way, if both are gone, neither is needed any more?

In Sartar, Kingdom of Heroes five rebellions are mentioned (p.271) For three of them dates are mentioned elsewhere in the book Righteous Wind 1611, p. 364 (although interestingly GTG v1 puts this at 1610, p. 171) Starbrow's rebellion 1613 Firebull Moot (which I assume is the rebellion of the Firebull Clan) 1615, p.230 Two of them aren't further mentioned in SKoH Season of Five Storms Black Arrow Callings Those two are also not noted in GtG or Runequest, Roleplaying in Glorantha. Do we know anything about them other than their names?

At least at one time, indeed so. Hopefully still now. If your player doesn't like the future in KoS (and I certainly don't) then it is up to them to make a different future. Remember, at least when it was written, KoS was not meant to be the 'canoncial', this is the way the world goes, future. You want peace between Orlanth and the Red Goddess? People in this thread have given ideas, maybe some of them work for you. You think it can't happen? Well, that's the way you tell your stories. In the end we all make our own stories. YGMV. Just don't tell me something I want to do in my Glorantha is impossible. You can say 'against canon' but I've said what I think KoS is (just to be clear - it's what happens in an Orlanthi victory if there are no PCs). Although, in my stories, anyone who supports Sheng is going to find themselves on the losing side.

I don't know about favourite, but one that always sticks in my mind is turning people into herdmen. That's pretty awful if you think about it, but well within the Praxian compact.

I agree, with a couple of important exceptions. See my last post for what I think of 'canon'. Peace would involve change. Which makes absolute sense to me. What's the point of the game if not to change something? These are the Hero Wars. You have to change things and make it happen. It's the end of a Gloranthan Age. Things do not stay the same. Another point of my understanding of the two books was that that was what was going to happen without player intervention. So, yep, things are mess unless the players make it otherwise. Which to me makes for the foundation a for a good game.

The way I understood it was like this: Think of a hand fan, The guard at one end is KoS, the guard at the other end is the never written Lunar book. Both of them leave the world in a mess (but very different messes). The ribs and leaf spread in between are the different stories that a role-playing group can tell. Some 'good' endings, some 'bad' endings. Some neither. All up to the group. Your story. YGMV. There's so many ways it could turn out. My understanding (and I repeat that again deliberately) was that there is a vast range of possibilities spread out before you through which you can find your own story.

It does depend what you mean by "coexistence". There are plenty of examples in our history of societies that each would have liked to make the other disappear, but have coexisted because they simply couldn't achieve it. But unless Lunar and Orlanthi coexistence is to be anything other than armed to the teeth hostile coexistence, one or the other probably has to change in some way. For example, either the Lunars go "Yep, we were wrong about chaos, we are all us - except for chaos" or Orlanthi Wind Lords have to fight bad chaos (to some definition of bad chaos) but not good or controlled chaos. Those are both big big changes, but that's what happens at the end of Gloranthan ages. Should you do either of this in your game? No, should is the wrong word. YMGV. Could you? I think that the way Glorantha is defined that yes, either could be made believable through the play of a suitable campaign. Of course, you could just as happily do something completely different. Although maybe even that is overstating it. As Eff pointed out, the Orlanthi command can be read as defensive. And it may depend on what exactly rates as a manifestation of chaos that a wind lord must fight.

Only by KoS - which, at least when it was written, was never meant to be 'the' canonical future

Who played Runequest back in the 80's