Ian Absentia

I already have some follow-up thoughts, potential edits, and possible heresies: Eiritha at the time of Brother Dog’s birth is not yet the “mother of cattle” by Storm Bull. She is, however, “an animal goddess, a daughter of Ernalda, Mother Earth, and Hykim, Father of Beasts.” (Cults of Prax) Rowdril, the Father of Dogs is not a dog himself, but is the sire of "dog-ness," the traits that make a dog a dog. He’s a randy fellow, and gets around during the Godtime. Dog-ness has been sired in several places throughout Glorantha as a result of his travels, including Saird, where he sired Ensoval, the dog-god commonly associated with more civilised breeds (and possibly in Sartar where alynxes inexplicably behave like dogs). Grodrulf is the proper name of Brother Dog in Balazar. Perhaps this his name in Prax, too? Grodrulf, Brother Dog, is thus the son of Eiritha and Rowdril from a tryst that preceded her union with Storm Bull. !i!

By the way, have we all read this bit from Greg, c.1999? Who Are the Dog Fathers? https://www.glorantha.com/docs/doggods/ !i!

Okay, here's my first pass at a unifying myth for dogs in Prax. Actually, it's v1.3 -- it's difficult to organise the order of events in a time before Time. I don't doubt that contradictions will abound. Also, I'm open to suggestions on the identity of Brother Dog's father. (Rowdril, perhaps? I'm sure that son of a bitch got around.) Thanks to @Sir_Godspeed for inspiration regarding the Morokanth. Brother Dog The Loyal Companion Brother Dog was born to Eiritha by one of her earlier lovers prior to the Great Darkness. In those days, he walked on two legs. He was a good god, alert and sharp of senses, able to track and uncover deeply hidden secrets, and he roamed widely. After the coming the Darkness and destruction of the Devil, he welcomed the birth of his new half-brother Waha into the surface world. Brother Dog walked ever with Waha as his brother sought out the People who wandered in the Darkness. However, when Waha turned to the cleansing of the Devil’s corpse, Brother Dog betrayed Waha’s purpose, coveting the Devil’s Bone for his own. He stole the withered, leathery member and ran off into the wastes to bury it, returning in secret to roll and gnaw upon it. But when left alone, the Bone’s malignant nature continued to sire many lesser evils that plagued the land with foul odors and stains upon the landscape. Waha smelled the evil on his brother, though, and eventually tracked it down, following Brother Dog to his hideaway. Waha seized the Bone and destroyed it with mighty magics, then turned his wrath upon his brother. Brother Dog bowed low in supplication, pledging eternal service in return for mercy. Waha relented, but only after transforming his brother into a beast and denying him a place at the Survival Covenant, consigning him instead to stand watch at the outskirts of camp on four legs instead of two. Thereafter, Brother Dog enjoyed the meager favor of the Men whose camps he swore to protect, but ever felt the fear and contempt of the herd beasts who still smelled the rank odor of the Devil’s Bone upon his maw and recoiled nervously from him. The greatest contempt of all, though, came from the Morokanth, who knew of Brother Dog’s disobedience to Waha, and who sneered at his subservience as he stole a seat at the camp of Men; and Brother Dog returned disdain upon the Morokanth who turned the Covenant on its ear, walking about on four legs themselves, yet herding men-who-were-beasts. Although with a place near Waha’s campfire, Brother Dog remained a beast and found himself with few allies in a hostile and hungry landscape. During the Great Darkness, Waha introduced the young Foundchild to Prax to teach the ways of the hunt to the People that they could find the food that no longer availed itself in plenty. Brother Dog followed the hunter from afar as he grew to manhood. Sensing the mighty hunter as an able companion, Brother Dog approached Foundchild, eagerly demonstrated his many talents to both protect and aid in the hunt, and proposed a partnership that he would be spared as prey and they would instead hunt together. Foundchild admired this beast greatly and they embraced as brothers, following each other in turn where the hunt would take them. Foundchild introduced his new brother to Men over whom Waha did not hold such sway, to whom Brother Dog became a loyal companion and not a lowly cur. Since Time began, Brother Dog has committed his being to the hunt, the herd, and the hearth, ever in service to Man, sharing in his plenty and his want. !i!

And this is where some controversy begins to arise. "Domestication" refers to changes in the behavior or morphology of one species to benefit another by creating a more predictable food supply*. However sophisticated humans may have already been, the behavior and influence of canines may have altered humans further to the dogs' benefit. It's plain that eventually humans pulled ahead in the relationship and commanded the greatest influence in an essentially one-way direction. !i! [*Edit: Supply of resources, actually. It doesn't have to be food.]

This gets into pretty arguable territory, but theories persist that humans and dogs co-domesticated. Both species are opportunistic scavengers (there I go using that term again) as well as hunters, and theory has it that they followed each other in turns to pick off each other's successful kills; the more cooperative canines and humans both became more successful survivors and propagated accordingly, perpetuating the relationship. Over time, the more long-range-thinking of the partnership began to favor and reward those with more specialised behaviors, builds, and appearance, and different breeds began to appear. How does this relate to Glorantha? I dunno -- cats appear to have done all the heavy lifting instead. I'm working on it, though... !i!

Ranging off-topic (though maybe not too far), the Lewis & Clark expedition, while exploring territory with rivers teeming with trout and salmon, preferred to eat their dogs when provisions ran low rather than resorting to...(ugh)...fish. The argument for keeping dogs incidentally rather than purposefully is somewhat compelling. As I noted up-thread, they're opportunistic scavengers and they eat the garbage of human communities. With little effort or upkeep on the part of humans, camp dogs take care of the trash, are very alert and scare off intruders, and when they get too numerous or times get tough they make for decent eating. And occasionally you can hitch the better-behaved ones up to a travois to carry a burden. Not utilising them for hunting or herding ranks among those cultural anomalies like not using the wheel or developing a written script -- sometimes there are just cultural blind spots. !i!

Dogs are also opportunistic scavengers who produce meat, so semi-independent camp dogs, if they aren't draining valuable resources, make sense. Also the role of guard/alarm dogs, while not especially glamorous, can be incredibly valuable to a nomadic people, even if they don't hunt or herd themselves. Considering that, in Prax, the dog's origin is less than dignified (punishment for betraying Waha), a low status for dogs makes some sense. Perhaps think of it this way: Waha is the one who re-establishes the social order in Prax in the wake of the Great Darkness and the Devil, and Brother Dog has gotten on the eternal bad side of the god in charge. At some point Waha enlists the aid of Foundchild to teach the people of Prax to hunt for self-sufficiency. Always getting short shrift from Waha, Brother Dog appeals to this newcomer, Foundchild, to show him a wider repertoire of talents. Foundchild is impressed and embraces him as a brother, not just a lowly cur. Brother Dog remains loyal to Waha by paying obeisance to his new partner Foundchild, with whom he can perform a larger role in the world. Waha still won't let him off a short lead in Prax, but there's this other people just to the north over the ridge where Waha doesn't hold sway. Yeah, I'm not super-impressed by the apparent pro-cat/anti-dog bias expressed in the extant Gloranthan myth, but if Waha wants to hobble his people by continuing to bear a grudge and deny them the broader benefits of keeping and training dogs, who am I to gainsay him? The fact that these same traits and talents have been attributed elsewhere to cats? Again, who am I to say? !i!

And this is the beauty of the ever-unfolding myths of Glorantha. Tell me this isn't contradicted by canon, 'cause I'm writin' it up. !i!

Here's a rather more delicate question regarding Waha's Compact. Assuming: Waha's brother who was turned into a dog was Brother Dog himself (NB: the "Brother" appellation is apparently in reference to his adoptive brotherhood with Foundchild, not necessarily a sibling relationship with Waha); Brother Dog, walking on four legs, had to petition Foundchild for a cooperative, non-prey status; ...is it cool to eat dogs in Prax? I can easily see a proscription against it, based on mythical relationships, but technically they are still animals and not "people". Plenty of RW cultures keep dogs for both service and food, so it isn't unheard of. The more I think about it, the more I like this grey area status that dogs have achieved, not lucking out like morokanths and drawing one of the two long straws, but still finding a position of favor among "people". I also can't imagine dogs and morokanths getting on well at all -- that should probably be part of the myth. By the way, I hear from my Sartarite friends that alynx is delicious. !i!

Delayed. https://www.chaosium.com/blogred-thread-of-fate-kickstarter-launch-delayed/ !i!

Digging back through my 1st Ed copy of Griffin Mountain in which Brother Dog and Foundchild first appeared (and, yes, which I imagine is no longer canon), I find two interesting notes: Brother Dog is an acknowledged sub-cult of Hunter (a.k.a. Foundchild, in this case); Regarding Brother Dog, it is written, "It is said that Brother Dog approached Found-Child [sic] during the Darkness and said he'd prefer to be a friend than food. The two became brothers and have served each other ever since." So there's your bridge between two-legs and four-legs. The brief excerpt from the myth doesn't specify that this bonding took place in Balazar, and it would appear that four-legged "food" animals can negotiate a separate peace with two-legged "people". And then there's this brief snippet on the various origin myths of dogs from Anaxial's Roster (and the Glorantha Bestiary, I just found, so it's canon): "In Prax, Waha's brother betrayed him and was turned into a dog. He has served loyally ever since to make amends." I can see the two myths dovetailing, placing the dog firmly in the social order of Prax, role unspecified. !i!

While I've not read any Gloranthan myth placing dogs in context in Prax, neither have I ready anything excluding them. And Brother Dog must have more affiliations than just Foundchild. Clearly there are some as-yet unrevealed myths that you're beginning to tug at -- it seems pretty clear that Brother Dog would be a helper to both Foundchild and Waha. Have to explain the bridge between the whole two-legs/four-legs divide, though. As for me, I now can't get the image out of my head of Agimori walking side-by-side with a brace of hounds and herders. !i!

Oh! Bait and switch! I kill you with a spear! !i!

I share this position as well, and I meant to add it to my list of "How Does Your Glorantha Vary?" in another thread. In my Glorantha, the laws of nature mirror those of our world on a more or less Newtonian, or at least Aristotelian basis. Magic is the exception to the rule in something of the same way that nuclear or quantum physics are the exceptions to everyday science in our world. For instance, a village burns to the ground because it was built of tinder and a cow knocks a lantern over, not because the hearth spirits and Lodril are angry with the villagers...necessarily. In other words, on a daily basis, people accept the simpler explanations for things at face value, and only go looking for higher reasons in times of crisis -- essentially how most of us rely on the sciences. So, when it comes to the productivity of fields, yeah, a field will produce more or less regardless of religious attention. But perform the Bless Crops rites on your fields -- which happen to involve ritualised forms of crop rotation, fertilisation, and soil amendment -- and they produce better than on average. Where it differs from our world, is that there really are gods and spirits that you can entreat or offend for exceptional effect. Most days it goes unseen, though, and the people simply operate on faith that "that's just how the world works," just as we count on loosely-understood concepts of physical science to hold our world together. This little exchange from The Venture Bros just came to mind... https://videosift.com/video/Science-Vs-Magic-Venture-Bros !i!

Hi Loïc. I'm actually curious -- how many people here gravitated toward the sciences because of an interest in RPGs? Or gravitated toward RPGs because of an interest in the sciences? Geologist here, and I don't know that I can rightly tell you which influenced which first. Arts and finance don't count. You lot can start your own spin-off thread. !i!

It's almost as if they didn't understand or appreciate the breadth of skills and abilities necessary for hunting (or herding, frankly). Or that they felt that the act of hunting encroaches on warfare, so why not default to the Warrior profession? RQG is definitely a celebration of the Storm-Earth/Warrior-Farmer/Monsoon-Harvest trope. !i!

As My Glorantha Has Varied: Sartarites are "nation" of trouble-making hill-billies who annoy their neighbors almost as much as they annoy one another. The Lunars ain't so bad, but their embrace of contradictions is tearing them apart from within. Rumor has it they were invited to help settle down the "Sartar problem". Among a nation of trouble-makers, Argrath is the worst of the lot, outlawed by his own people for agitating clan rivalries and instigating hostilities with more powerful neighbors. A dangerous charlatan, ripe to be displaced by a real hero. Harrek is a monster. So is Jar-Eel. One embodies the worst of barbarism, the other the worst of civilsation. If we're lucky, they'll cancel each other out one day, and not then entire world with them. An atheist wizard from the West has survived being trod underfoot by a giant (albeit, a small one) and inspired the Balazarings into open revolt. The Sun Dome temples of Glorantha are associated cross-culturally, though fractured by ancient rifts. Cloud Leopards are the Airy counterpart to Storm Tigers, and the human son of a cloud leopard will unite the Sun Domes. The Sofali Raft People have rescued a refugee fleet of Afadjanni slaves, landing first at Corflu, and are en route to re-establish the turtle nests of Choralinthor Bay. Duke Raus' daughter Jezra has run away one too many times. Never the most stable of personalities to begin with, jilted romantically by her savior from abduction at the hands of Tusk Riders (an outlaw Sartarite scoundrel who may or may not have been Argrath himself), she disappeared into the wastes. Contrary to the popular opinion that she was eaten by hyenas, she experienced a transcendent vision quest in which she bonded with a black unicorn and has become a figure of awe, terror, and inspiration among the cult of Yelorna. The Agimori of Prax are not Pamaltelans. The Aramites are candidates for redemption. Not purification -- just redeemed from their endemically fractious and self-demeaning state. Be very wary when they do, and watch the color of the moon. Broos are still sexually degenerate f***-monsters. If they can't find a hole, they'll make one. They're the Great God Pan at his worst, and no one in Glorantha will surrender to a broo as a result. And as bad as he is, Ralzakark may be their only ticket out of hell. Aldryami forests are home to many types of elfs, including "dark elfs" who live among the roots of the trees, your common elfs who live among the forest floor, and "high elfs" who look like humans for most intents and purposes and live in villages (you guessed it) high among the branches. Good luck getting a face-to-face with the high elfs. Oddly enough, I never got around to dealing with the Mostali. Maybe that's how it should be -- just rumors that they even exist. !i!

...or a very simple barcode. The runes have been written many ways. When it comes to a tattoo, never hesitate to introduce personal design. You're waering it for life -- what speaks "Harmony" to you? (Or rather, to your firend?) !i!

There've been a lot, but that was right there at the start. R.E. Howard's Conan was also detailed in early boxed D&D, but that may've been slightly after hobbits and balrogs. Tunnels & Trolls had balrogs in all of their early editions, too. Then there's the infamous need to remove the Cthulhu Mythos and the Elric pantheon from later printings of Deities & Demigods for AD&D 1e* because a certain company of upstarts (a-hem) asserted licensing rights over them. And, of course, there was the later follow-on misunderstanding regarding licensing rights regarding the Elric/Young Kingdoms IP that got a little testy a while back. Yeah, there was a time when the gaming hobby was a quaint little enthusiast's backwater that could be largely dismissed as "mostly harmless". With the advent of the Internet, even obscure hobbyists achieve a level of visibility and distribution that requires careful exertion of property rights. !i! [*Funny story. Back in college I tried a stint with our campus Gaming Club, which included a good bunch of RPGers, though decidedly of the D&D stripe. For some variety, I offered to GM some of my Chaosium games, including this still-newfangled Call of Cthulhu. My offer was met with some enthusiasm, but I was met with even more by the players who had a copy of the original printing of Deities & Demigods that included the Cthulhu Mythos and who were super eager to loan it to me to use in their ongoing D&D campaign. That's not quite the point of Call of Cthulhu, I tried to explain. In CoC, you're on the fuzzy end of the monster-killing lollipop -- that's the fun of it! I was then met with blank stares and pursed lips, and not invited back as a guest GM for any of their games.]

This is what's known as a "head-but" -- preceding a statement with a denial of same: I don't mean to be (XXXX), but (totally-XXXX). That said, I'll start proofing CDA now. !i!

Hmm. It's best to not go bandying terms like that about. !i!

No, no -- I sympathise. Some of my favorite resources from the free-wheeling early days of RPGs have had to be pulled over the years due to a creator's need to assert and protect intellectual property rights, under circumstances people didn't or couldn't foresee back in the '70s and '80s. Homage and free advertisement one day; copyright infringement the next. !i!

Yeah, a shame, but to be fair, the world's always been that way. But it's become increasingly easy to collect, alter, and redistribute the works of others without proper attribution (and, possibly, compensation), so interested parties need to ride herd on who's doing what with their creations. Sometimes it's a polite, but officious "Not at this time" in response to a request to share derivative works. !i!

The private history? What Oz was doing behind the curtain before the dog started nipping the hem of his trousers. You know, how the sausage was made. !i!

Right, "thresholds" -- the requirement to display a level of mastery of a skill before even trying something more complex. I always liked those, though they could lead down a path to excessive crunch. Interesting that both came out of French game design from the '90s and that you see the influence farther afield in the decade thereafter. !i!