Rurik

Fantasy archetypes could be represented by cultures - the forest people, the mountain people, the underground people, but have them all be humans. Though really I think races proper would probably have broader appeal.

I think Gloranth... uh, I mean some other past not open worlds did an excellent job of making cultures unique enough that there is great diversity just in playing humans, and can see RMS's point (and I'm thinking about that god thing). But Races are part of what most people consider 'fantasy' settings, and I have no problem including them. RQ originally had Elves and Dwarves and Trolls and whatnot, and those were accessible to people coming over from other games. In fact the races evolved into Aldryami, Mostali, and Uz and became quite different from the norm. However, being able to say to someone new 'this is an elf' makes them accessible to a new player - more so than 'this is an 'Freenhahrrhrri'. A game may shy away from fantasy tropes to be unique, and so have unique races, such as the Freenhahrrhrri, when if fact the Freenhahrrhrri may have much more in common with the pointy ear pansies of standard fantasy than the Aldryami do (bunch of friggin vegatables that they are), but by giving them a weird name they are harder to accept. So I really don't mind elves, dwarves, and trolls - it is just important to set them apart from the standard to give them their own flavor. Even Orcs are OK by me - just not Hobbits or Halflings - screw them.

As a matter of semantics, 'opposed roll' usually means you are comparing the actual rolls (numbers rolled) against eachother. I don't have BRPZero but It sounds like that uses a table pretty much like Triffs. It is only comparing levels of success, not actual rolls.

Well I wouldn't want to attempt to make a generic version of another world that is still in development (and which I might even play in). What would be a good exercise is coming up with a list of what made such a setting so special in the first place, and using that as inspiration for an original setting. For example (real quick off the top of my head): 1. NOT at standard fantasy late middle ages setting. 2. Magic is common 3. Myth and Religeon is prominent and real. 4. Emphasis on realistic setting with enough wackyness to keep it fun. 5. Familiar races that are in fact unique, so you can say to a new player 'elf' and have them learn through play that 'elf' does not mean Galadriel. 6. Wacky races. 7. Strong emphasis on cults and religeon as primary sources of culture, belief, and magic. 8. Damn strong detailed starting settings and scenarios. If everyone contributed to such a list, and then agreed on which of these things should shape a new setting, I think that would be cool. I'm not looking for thinly vieled copies of cults or cultures in another world, but to capture the essence of what made that world fun in a new setting. I'm not into gates per se, I agree if you want gates you can just put them in ANY worls to link to ANY OTHER world. I prefer a more organic approach. Islands is cool, perhaps after a period of the seas being unnavigable for some reason so cultures have been isolated until recently (I know - that is a bit like another existing world which had unnavigable seas). Maybe some other kind of magical barrier between lands that has recently been lifted (or is just being lifted for the first time as the setting starts so the players can be the first pioneers of travelling between the once isolated cultures). Just some thoughts...

I like keeping Fate Points as a seperate pool that is not tied to POW or Pow Points or any other in game statistic (spellcasters never seem to get any lucky breaks, what is up with that?). Divine Intervention happens in Game, bad shit happens and a character calls on his god and good shit happens to counteract the bad shit but the god takes some POW - fine with me. Fate mechanics I see as something players use, not their characters. Fate points keep the game going when the dice are cruel, and I don't see them manifesting in the story. When you use a fate/hero point to prevent a critical to the head, I don't envision a miracle happening in game - the .50 caliber sniper round does not cause Bobs head to explode like an overripe grapefruit and then a moment later go back to together - the shot misses - maybe a gnat flies up the nose of the sniper or something as he pulls the trigger, or some other unlikely event, but nothing is actually turned back like with a DI. So it seems odd and unrealistic to me that an unseen sniper takes a bead on Bob's head, as he pulls the trigger a gnat flies up his nose causing the sniper to miss and Bob to lose a bunch of his magic points for no discernable reason. If using Fate points or Hero Points with BRP I would create a new pool rather than use POW or MP, except possibly in a completely magic - less setting where Pow Points have absolutely no in game effect (effectively making them an out of game resource anyway). That is my 2 cents. Do I only have to pay Triff or everyone who reads this post?

I suspect Fate points work a bit differently for Elric than most other heroes.

Shouldn't Black Industries change the subtitle/slogan on their website to something other than "The future of games"?

Oh the Irony. Seriously though, I hope it is pretty obvious I was joking there. I'd never say anything mean for real. :innocent:

Yes you do you Idiot. It is apparent to everyone else on these boards your logic behind that statement is completely inane, and I don't even know why I am lowering myself to your level by even discussing this with you loser.

I tried to link to the BRP monographs (the RQ3 books with the serial numbers filed off) for someone and they appear to be no more on the Chaosium site.

So wait, you are only linking to Norwegian sites now? :shocked:

Great Stuff. Thanks!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. In my experience the 'useless' characters are often the ones who take down tougher foes. The "Better Fighter" in fact is who just ties up the enemy, because as we know tough guy vs. tough guy fights in RQ3 can go on for a while before someone gets the lucky blow. The 'useless' guys often get the unblocked swings at the opposing tough guy. Many times has the 'weakling' taken down the top opponent - and the player of the weakling invariably enjoys the experience all the more because of the disparity in power levels.

I suppose it matters whether you consider both barrels going off simultaneously or not, which I was assuming to be the case as the poster I was responding to was talking about doubling damage. I will admit I haven't actually fired a lot of shotguns, but with rifles in my experience the caliber (and hence recoil) has never really affected my accuracy in a significant way on my first shot. To me, the effect of weight of the weapon and round effects how much time it takes to zero in on another well centered shot.

I kinda disagree with this one for a couple reasons. The STR and DEX requirements cover a couple of factors - being able to aim the weapon effectively and controlling recoil (for multiple shot weapons). It takes no more STR or DEX to hold and aim a shotgun whether you fire one barrel or both at once, and the recoil becomes moot if you fire both barrels at once as your weapon is now empty. There aren't really any rules for getting knocked on your ass if you don't meet the STR requirements for a firearm in BRP, only a negative modifier to hit. Just my two cents.

I believe it is History he's discussing... >:->

Well fine then, I guess I will post pictures proving mine is biggest...

I agree entirely. They have always said that. Usually followed immediately something like: I can see where a RQ fan might have gotten their hopes up.

Having tried some stat blocks that combine some options I am against using them. Sure I understand all the options, but someone new to the system would be confused by them - and that is a big problem. We want new people to like the game. Though you can add a section at the end of a block for Hit Locations and clearly label it as optional, it is hard to make clear that you normally do not use Major Wound Level with locations, or that SR's supercede using DEX order. I suspect the cleanest implementation would be to use the simple 'core' stats in the book, and include an appendix with say all the stat blocks from the book done up with Hit Locations and SR and seperate Attack/Parry% for example, or whatever optional rules the author recommends for the setting.

No, but that is a good idea. I like that simple elegance of using a stat base, but miss the the RQ method of depicting some skills as easier than others. Using Weapons for example PoleAxe could be STR (or STR -5). Sword could be DEX+10, while Mace could be STR+15. Giving these examples I kinda like differentiating some weapons as STR weapons and some as DEX Weapons to give some variety (and a reason other than just the weapons inherent stats to choose one over the other - if all weapons were based on one stat I would use DEX though). One thing I like about single stat is that the stat can be used as the experience bonus. A DEX 15 person gets a 15% bonus to thier Dodge experience check.

Hey, wait a minute, why I am I on the defensive about comparing RQ to BRP in a thread titled 'Comparative Systemology' that was created specifically for this purpose? :eek: BRP suXX- RQ RAWKz! (did I get my l33t speak right?)

I've always pointed out that I don't blame Jason or Chaosium for what BRP is. They have delivered exactly what they wanted and promised, in what hopefully will be coherant project. I think people are taking us RQ grognards bitching about nobody really delivering what we want as criticism of what BRP is. The two are not the same thing. We have to bitch places like here and the MRQ forums because, well, we have no home. ;-( I will be shocked, but very happy, if most supplements that come out include Hit Locations and SR's, and will happily eat crow. I've thought about how to stat up creatures to be universal based on bits' from this board - I know RQ and Elric! and CoC etc. etc. well enough to plan this out, and it is not easy to come up with one generic stat block - nor do I think it is a good idea, as one block with multiple mutually exclusive optional rules in it would be very confusing to a new comer - so multiple stat sets for npc's and monsters is the only way I can see to do this cleanly. Even multiple stat sets is not perfect though, as it sounds as if there are a lot of modular optional rules, and covering all the possible iterations will be difficult. That is why I suspect most supplements will include stat's for the base core rules only. I hope I'm wrong.

A GM is either running a scenario designed without a specific party in mind, in which case tweaking to suit the party is often required anyway, or they are custom designing the scenario/encounter to a specific party and the whole issue is moot. I don't see how pulling punches has anything to do with it. Most fights are not even. Usually the characters are outnumbered by weaker foes, or outnumber stronger foes. In the first case the weaker party members have plenty of oppurtunity to faight balanced foes. In the latter case they often get ignored as the foes focus on the tougher party members. The newbies often get unnoposed attacks on the enemy, and I have found often in games as a result deal the killing blow. And as a player (and for the character as well) the enjoument gained by your 'farmer' killing the enemy Rune Lord is far greater than that of a Rune Lord killing an equal foe. It calls to mind a runelord facing a dark troll and trollkin and deciding not to parry the trollkin...

I'm not faulting BRP for being what it is, just for not being what I want. Seriously, it is not Jason or Chaosiums fault that Greg Secured the RQ trademark faster than they did when it expired (well ok, maybe that is Chaosium's fault), and then licensed it to MGP. Seriously (no seriously this time). BRP looks like it will be exactly what it set out to be, and that is exactly what a lot of people are looking for (a generic Elric! implementation, Superpowers, Sci-Fi). I'm getting it for sure, and will use it (to what extent I don't know yet). But it is not what the RQ Grognards really want, and it is not a slight to Jason or Chaosium to say so, it is a fact. And it was our last hope (Help us Obi-Wan Durall, you are our last hope), when MRQ, SA Glorantha, and DBRP were all in the works how could we help but envision a gaming utopia on the horizon? It has not materialised the way we envisioned - what we have is a bunch of seperate pieces that we have to work hard to fit together. Nope, Pendragon and the GPC it has not been.

Personally, I really don't care what Gregs motivation is - I have really enjoyed the Second Age Glorantha material so far. It is not as good as the old Gloranthan Classics, but then I doubt anything could be, as I look back at those through the rose tinted glasses of a middle aged gamer looking back at the glory days of his role playing youth. The fact is I've bought a bunch of books, none of them have sucked, some have been very good, and as a whole body of work I'm happy with my investment. Greg has indeed produced some good second age reference, and Mongoose has done a good job expanding on it. Greg's Middle Sea Empire and MGP's Jrustrela (one of my favorites so far) is a good example of the relationship. I'm sure part of his motivation is financial, and that is OK by me. He's a smart guy, and probably could have made a lot more money in lifetime had he dedicated his life to something other than Glorantha (though probably wouldn't have quite the cult following he does). I'm happy for him to 'cash in', and I use that phrase lightly, as I doubt the Mongoose license is actually buying a lot of sports cars for him. I've run Second Age with heavily houseruled MRQ and with MRQ 'by the book' and plan on running them with BRP as well when finally released. IT has all been fun, which is what counts. Perfect? - no freakin way - but worth the effort.