Jeff

6 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

I think Belintar at least skipped straight from hero to god.

Belintar is a god, not a superhero. Greg held that from 1444 on, so was Sheng Seleris. 

But then again, the very term "superhero" is an artifice of WBRM. If we made a boardgames set in 1313, would we have Belintar be a CF 20 counter? Would Sheng Seleris or Garangordos? I am not sure they would be. All I know for certain is that Greg imagined that Androgeus, Argrath, Arkat, Jar-eel, Harrek, and Yanafal Tarnils could be expressed that way.

2 minutes ago, Wheel Shield said:

I appreciate all of this and it’s a fine example of good leadership. 
 

But, respectfully, when I read statements like “we’ve been waiting for 40 years and Chaosium is still screwing up” (paraphrased), I’m not going to accept that at face value. I know better. Or, I at the very least, I know it’s not that simple. I’m happy to flatter you but that’s not flattery, it simply is not your fault. You can apologize for everything and I think that’s very upstanding, but…. <<shrug>>

 

I think I get it. I have depicted the situation, and by extension I have depicted you in a light that you’re not comfortable with. You don’t want it to be contagious, repeated, and/or you don’t want to be seen as sharing this perspective. It’s not a good look for you to be seen agreeing with the notion that you AND OTHERS saved the company. I sorta expected you or Jeff to push back on this post. Or Scotty to shut it down (hold my beer on getting back on topic). The thing is I got reasons for defending and supporting you and your whole team, and it’s not based on fanboy logic or emotion.

Is this article not true? Because the last line thanks Chaosium for being forthcoming and it quotes (not paraphrases) you prolifically. In mid-2015 this company had 10,000 in the checking account and would have likely gone bankrupt. Did The Nerdist make this up? Did you not say these things? Again, is this not true?

Cthulhu Company Kickstarted Itself To DEATH Then This Happened - The Nerdist 

Even if we don’t dwell on it too much, I think you merit a couple years of grace taking over a struggling company.

I’ll lighten up here. You and your team are entitled to your modesty. Note I am referring to “team” more more often. Agreed, you have never done these good things alone.

But let’s not stop at 2015. To get this back on topic. Before this thread gets locked/killed.

Let’s look at Shiningbrow’s last direct reply to me. I was going to drop this discussion but I’ve been inspired to add to it. Thanks Rick! (Wink)
“No, I can't either. But I can put them on trial for the last 7. And I have and am.”

When do we start this “clock” when Chaosium allegedly didn’t make RQ a priority?

• The company changes leadership in crisis in 2015. At this point there is no in-house rule set for RuneQuest, other than old reprints. There is a Glorantha system, but not RuneQuest.
• In 2017, Eleven Lights is published for Heroquest Glorantha. We don’t even have a contemporary, in-print version of Runequest for a modern contemporary audience. We still have HQ! (I mean published, not in development)
• In 2018, we have a modern in-print Rulebook, to be followed by a Bestiary, and GM Pack
• Since then, we have had a Starter Set, Red Book of Magic, Adventure Books.
• I can’t pin this down, but I imagine Jeff spent some time with Greg to pass the custodianship of Glorantha. Cause I’m guessing Greg could be like Tolkien, with a whole lot of notes and evolving ideas. That’s a big inheritance to absorb before the man sadly passed away.
  
  If we’re judging Chaosium’s productivity on Runequest, can we not start at 2018? It’s early in 2023 and we got four important books coming out. It’s unfair to suggest they’re not doing their best and doing a pretty good job.
  
  To Rick, the aggressive tone in this post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Humility is awesome, but I’m going to think well of you and your confederates if I want to. Sorry.

Starting from scratch in 2018, we have published Glorantha Sourcebook (2018), RuneQuest (2018), Bestiary (2018), GM Adventures Pack (2018), Smoking Ruins (2019), Pegasus Plateau (2020), Red Book of Magic (2020), Starter Set (2021), and Weapons and Equipment (2022). We now have the Prosopaedia (2023), Lightbringers (2023), Earth Goddesses (2023), and Mythology (2023). That comes out to a little over two RQ books a year on average, despite having our printing and logistics system completely disrupted in 2020-2021. I expect it to ramp up to around four+ a year, now that we have the pipeline properly fed.

Shiningbrow is welcome to hold me "for trial" for whatever he thinks I should have done. But to keep to the lawyerly metaphor, I am inclined to move for dismissal for failure to state a claim.

5 minutes ago, Jeff said:

I'll muddy this up a little bit. The best definition of a Gloranthan superhero is:
 

So Argrath is a hero to the Orlanthi and Praxians, the Red Emperor is a hero to the Lunars, Jaldon to the Praxians, and so on. But Harrek, Jar-eel, and Androgeus are feared and loved throughout the world. They are the personification of a million dreams (or nightmares) rolled Ito one body. 

Now in at least one ending of the Hero Wars, Argrath becomes a superhero in the end and has his apotheosis. But the Argrath of 1655 is not the Argrath of 1625 or even 1645.

My short list of Gloranthan superheroes are basically: Androgeus, Arkat, Harrek, Jar-eel, and Yanafal Tarnils.

A good argument can be made that Errinoru was a superhero as well. 

However, in general I use the term hero for both heroes and superheroes because the latter term always conjures up images of people in spandex and capes.

I'll muddy this up a little bit. The best definition of a Gloranthan superhero is:
 

Quote

 

The Superheroes of Dragon Pass are personages whose presence fills the needs of many divergent societies. Heroes tend to be more local in character, while the Superheroes are cross-cultural. The presence and clash of these individuals during the Hero Wars period in Dragon Pass indicates that there was a very great need and an insurmountable psychic strain in the cosmos at that time which necessitated the birth of these individuals.

Whatever the case may be with cosmic mentalities, the reality of the Superheroes’ presence in the physical world is immense. Their magic factors are immense, for they are the perfections of the minds of their followers: of all who have feared or loved them, from near or afar. They are avatars, personifications of a million dreams, the hopes of all the futures rolled into one body. As such, they are immortal, whatever their physical states might be.

 

So Argrath is a hero to the Orlanthi and Praxians, the Red Emperor is a hero to the Lunars, Jaldon to the Praxians, and so on. But Harrek, Jar-eel, and Androgeus are feared throughout the world. They are the personification of a million dreams (or nightmares) rolled Ito one body. 

Now in at least one ending of the Hero Wars, Argrath becomes a superhero in the end and has his apotheosis. But the Argrath of 1655 is not the Argrath of 1625 or even 1645.

I don't particularly mind ignoring WF 15 - I am not sure I have even used it as a reference in many a year. It was a vehicle to get some short material out during a time when we had few other options. I personally think I got plenty of things wrong - and since then, I have written the Guide to Glorantha, RQG, the Solar cults book, the Guide to Dragon Pass, and the Sartar Book - all of which are more to the point and far better sources. 

4 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I don't follow this path.

From my perspective herd men are herd with man shape, but they are exactly like impala, bison,  lama and sables: they are herd.

they don't have god or goddess, they are herd.

But their "owners" have gods and goddesses. And those who want the protection of their praxian herds, sable, bison, impala lama or herd men, worship Eiritha.

Whatever were their ancestors, those... "losers" , they are just praxian herd now. no more, no less.

Herd-Men have the Beast Rune not the Man Rune.

On 4/16/2023 at 10:12 AM, soltakss said:

Eiritha.

 

Correct.

On 4/10/2023 at 3:25 AM, Darius West said:

Yes, well, apparently Monrogh came on the scene and suddenly every disparate Yelmalio tradition across Glorantha instantly converted into a monoculture.  That seems credible.

One huge problem with the whole King of Dragon Pass Elmal narrative is that game skipped the breakdown of the Sartarite Elmal cult, their embrace of Yelm, and the civil war among the Sartarites. The view of Elmal as Orlanth's thane collapsed under pressure, until Monrogh showed that Orlanth's thane is part of Yelmalio. And Yelmalio has had centuries of worship among the Pelorian hill tribes and was even recognised in Prax.

Positing Elmal as a totally different entity from Yelmalio creates all sorts of cosmological headaches. The easiest way of looking at Elmal is he is the abridged version of Yelmalio. Same with Kargzant. Same entity but not all is connected. Like the relationship between Orlanth Adventurous and Orlanth, Pole Star and Polaris or White Princess and Inora. 

19 minutes ago, soltakss said:

In my wife's homeland, villages in the rural areas generally have Russian, Bashkort or Tatar as their main language, but the Bashkort and Tatar speaking villages also speak the other language, and all speak Russian as a secondary language. I can see something similar happening in the Far Point, where some villages speak Tarshite but also know Sartarite, and some speak Sartarite and also know Tarshite.

Yeah, I imagine in Alda-Chur and Alone there is a significant minority who speak Sartarite as their main language. Most people speak Sartarite as a secondary language, although for the last decade or so a growing number speak New Pelorian. Of course that number will likely drop in 1627.

3 minutes ago, Okkulten RPG said:

So, is Sanity now usable across the board and not strictly a Call of Cthulhu mechanic?  Would be great for my current project if thats the case.

The text of BRP Universal Game Engine is available for use under the ORC. Obviously, no rights are given to anything not in the BRP book, and no rights are given to use any trademarks, trade dress, or art - but if you want to use the Sanity mechanics (based on what is in BRP), go for it! Same thing with augments, passions, etc.

For material not in the BRP book, you need to either create it yourself, or use stuff that is public domain. Or get a license from the owner of the IP. 

5 hours ago, DrGoth said:

Another question in my random potterings through things (hope I'm not annoying anyone with these questions).

So, I saw the the following in a Well of Daliath posting from Jeff (https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/city-culture/)

"Alone is culturally more like Wintertop than Alda-Chur. Alda-Chur is more like Dunstop than it is like Alone. Ponder that." and "Note that Sartarites view those from the Alda-Chur region as “strangers” and not “rivals” or “enemies”."

The above Well of Daliath article refers to a facebook post, where someone (I think LordAbdul, apologies if I'm wrong) said " the different/varying languages and traditions and vibes".

This sounds right to me.  The Far Placers trace back to Tarsh, or even further west. Most Sartarites trace back to Esrolia.  Even though they are all Orlanthi.

But do we know anything about how those traditions/vibes actually differ?  If a player character from the main part of Sartar heads north, what do you tell them is noticeably different to home?  Or the converse, if a Far Placer heads south? 

Is it dress/food/architecture/art/decorations/tattoos/customs/the way sacrifices are performed?  The basic culture is the same (Orlanthi). I can see it would be difference can the centuries of separation forced by the Dragon Kill.  And how, exactly, does it differ? Have the Far Placers been influenced by Peloria/Dara Happa/Lunars? I can't see any details in the Guide or elsewhere. 

It would be nice to give players concrete information.  Any suggestions or pointers to material welcome.

Now Alone is different from Alda-Chur. They are refugees from Old Tarsh, who were granted land and protection by Prince Terasarin. For their 20 years of independence, they were extremely loyal to the Sartar Dynasty but had no particular ties to the Alda-Churi. The Alone settlers speak Old Tarshite and really hate the Lunar Empire.

Of course in Alda-Chur and Alone, Sartarite is spoken by many people as a prestige language.

The most obvious difference is going to be linguistic. The folk in the Far Place speak Tarshite as their home language, which is barely mutually intelligible with Sartarite. It does not have the strong Esrolian influence that Sartarite has. 

There's also a different history at play. Although Alda-Chur was long allied with the Sartar Dynasty, they were autonomous until the 1580s. They have their own identity outside of the Sartar Dynasty- like Texas, Bavaria, Wales, or Scotland. Maran Gor is more important among them, and they have their own Yelmalion tribe outside of the Sun Dome Temple.

7 hours ago, Darius West said:

Nope.  Hinterland Tovtaros Elmali never converted.  Monrogh was a Lunar agent as far as they are concerned.

You are welcome to have your Glorantha be what you want. But that is not how it is going to be presented in the Sartar Book.

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

That would be a shame.

It is not a shame. The Thunder Brothers are a collection of storm gods numbering between three and sixty, usually led by Vinga. They likely have names like Thunder, Lightning, Wind, Sandstorm, Noise, Hail, etc. Those names do not have cults - they don't really have individual identities, although if you squint sometimes you can see a cult behind one of the names but that is us being God Learners.

12 minutes ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Doesn't look too cheery given the rose-colored glasses 🥴

Huh?

28 minutes ago, Travern said:

Quick question, @Jason D: The ORC License draft is marked "FEEDBACK REQUESTED", but there doesn't seem to be a method of submitting this (e-mail, webform, etc.).

How do people send in their comments/critiques/questions? Many thanks,

Our mistake! We accidentally posted that a little too early. It is taken down until it is ready.

It is Thursday 6 April right now as far as I am concerned. 

Of the books I am most excited to release, that is definitely the Mythology Book. There's so much there, and I consider it the definitely take on Glorantha mythology, and what it all means. 

30 minutes ago, g33k said:

And yet, the "quartermaster" is usually an expert in matters of logistics ... and thus (I presume) a very-able administrator.
Not the "teamsters" (lay members & some Initiates) but their leadership (the more-capable Initiates, most priests).

Have I misunderstood something?

By administrator I mean someone who administers territory or a city - part of the Lunar ruling elite.  

58 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Yes, this is largely how I see them functioning. But they'll definitely know all the caravaserai's ("truck stops") along the way - which are good, which are bad, etc.

Lokarnos' cult are the Teamsters of Genertela. Not merchants, not traders, not administrators. 

Reason for Continued Existence

Lokarnos is the god of the wheel, a magical token he created to honor Yelm. Through cleverness, he made carts and wagons and loaded them with goods to help his betters. He is worshiped by teamsters, bullwhackers, carters, sutlers, and others who drive wheeled vehicles pulled by oxen, horses, or other draft animals.

Despite being a solar cult, Lokarnos is welcomed in civilized Orlanthi lands and in the lands of the Earth goddesses. 

Social/Political Position and Power

Lokarnos is a god of common workers, and his cult does not rule or command, nor does it have a great cosmic role to play. However, in some areas, his cult members effectively control the transport of goods, and thus, the cult’s importance often exceeds its official sway. Where it can, the cult asserts authority over wagons and carts, requiring that drivers be at least lay members of Lokarnos. The cult makes no such claim over chariots.

The Lunar army relies on the wagons of the Lokarnos cult to move its baggage train. The quartermasters of the army are members of the cult. 

Particular Likes and Dislikes

The cult is very friendly with Issaries and other mercantile orders such as Etyries. When an Issaries merchant wishes to haul goods in a cart or wagon, he will seek out a Lokarnos wagoner. Similarly, when a Lokarnos wagoner wants to sell goods, he will seek out an Issaries merchant. This friendship does not extend to Darkness cults; the Lokarnos wagoners are unfriendly to Argan Argar and other Darkness deities.

20 hours ago, Jeff said:

There's about 500 Seven Mothers initiates in Alda-Chur (not including the Lunar soldiers), another 1100 initiates among the surrounding tribes. 

Some of these initiates are transplants from Lunar Tarsh, others are people who have joined the cult since 1602, and especially since 1613 or so.

Remember that from 1610-1625, the city of Alda-Chur was ruled by a local tyrant who installed himself with the aid of the soldiers of the Yelmalio cult and the Vantaros Tribe. The Provincial Government viewed Harvar Ironfist as a useful tool.

Outside of Alda-Chur there are about 500 Seven Mothers initiates in the Princeros, about the same among the Vantaros, and about 100 among the Tovtaros.

There's about 500 Seven Mothers initiates in Alda-Chur (not including the Lunar soldiers), another 1100 initiates among the surrounding tribes. 

Some of these initiates are transplants from Lunar Tarsh, others are people who have joined the cult since 1602, and especially since 1613 or so.

Remember that from 1610-1625, the city of Alda-Chur was ruled by a local tyrant who installed himself with the aid of the soldiers of the Yelmalio cult and the Vantaros Tribe. The Provincial Government viewed Harvar Ironfist as a useful tool.

On 3/27/2023 at 2:25 PM, Agentorange said:

Here's the thing - where does the heat come from ?   On earth it's molten lava, magma whatever  drill straight down and you hit molten rock and the earths superheated core. Go straight down in Glorantha and ytou hit the underworld, hell etc. Which since Yelm is no longer down there is presumably as cold as it ever was. so where does all the volcanic acivity come from then ?

 

The heat comes from Lodril, the Fire Within the Earth. Where Lodril is present, there will be heat within the Earth. When Lodril is summoned, he comes in a great explosion of heat and fiery rock.

Although most material phenomena in Glorantha appear similar to our world - things fall towards the Earth, we need to breathe air to live, if you smelt tin and copper you get bronze, etc. - they don't have the same reasons as on our world. And in many cases, trying to apply our physics to understand Glorantha is just a mistake. The world IS flat, the sky IS a dome, the Red Moon just hovers in place, etc. 

Might as well ask what is the physics that apply to when I fly in a dream.