Sir_Godspeed

Ah, that's it, I forget.

Yeah, Vadrus got killed by one of those Chaos gods that make ressurrection very difficult. However, the same can be said for Genert, I believe, and there are adventure-threads about ressurrecting him, so who knows? Sedenya is an interesting one. The Lunars claim they ressurrected a bona fide God Times goddess. Their detractors might say that they made some kind of Frankenstein's Monster from lots of different dead goddesses instead. I don't believe we have a canonical answer, although it might be irrelevant anyway, as she pressed her claim well enough to make all gods except Orlanth accept her.

It didn't last for long, iirc, so that's probably true. I don't know too much more, however. This probably varies A LOT over time and space, so I'm mostly generalizing here, but in general, it seems like the Dara Happans view the Pentans as, well, dangerous barbarians that are either too far off to care about, or an imminent threat to their existence (depending), and more rarely, a peripheral people to demand tribute from or colonize (I know know a few times that's happened though, including under the Lunar Empire). The Pentans seems to have a more active animosity, enviously viewing the Pelorian bowl as their ancestral homeland (to some extent), and desiring the rich grasslands there. Sheng Seleris is the ultimate expression of that, but there've been several others as well. The Pentans fall into a few different groups, such as the Pure Horse, who among the Pentans act as a kind of priestly caste among the general Pentan tribes that herd many other animals. There is also a division between Solar-worshipping Pentans and Pentans who worship Storm deities (the latter seems to be somewhat of a recent innovation).

When the Holy Country collapses in the aftermath of Belintar's killing, the different city-states and dynasties of Esrolia align themselves into different ad hoc coalitions. This is in many ways standard procedure of the Esrolians. Mythically and ideologically, they seek to align themselves with whatever partner can act as a guarantist for stability, prosperity and peace. But this time around there's no clear alternative. The Red Earth Alliance believes the Lunars are the best choice. The Old Earth Alliance believes King Broyan of the Volsaxi/Hendriki is the best choice. The Warm Earth Alliance believes that the Caladralanders are the best choice. Others have mentioned above that this might be due to them being largely unscathed by the conflict so far. As far as I know, there's not too much more to it than that.

I'm not sure holding Lodril as your paramount deity equates to aligning with Pelorian Yelmic ideas, though. They might as well be deeply suspicious of any attempt to cast their volcano Lord in the role of a "lesser" or subjugated deity. The Caladralanders never struck me as potential Yelmites/Pelorian Lodrilites.

On a related note, if you check out the maps in Revealed Mythologies, and The Fortunate Succession, they function on roughly similar logic. Less about geographic realism and more about denoting relative importance and relevance.

Or subway maps, for that matter.

No, they joined after the Unity Council had been reformed into the High Council of the Lands of Genertela. The Sky Folk is just a generalized descriptor for the beings that live in the Sky. There are beings living there, just like those who live on the surface, the sea, and the Underworlds. I'm not entirely sure how much we know about them, but they do make some appareances. Some of them descended to the surface during the Greater Darkness to help out the survivors, and they became known as the Star Captains to the Orlanthi, and I believe the Starlight Ancestors to the Pentans. In Dara Happan lore, I think they are more or less ruled or led by Ourania and Polestar, but that might be generalized. The "Every Man a Sun"-movement appears to have been an anti-EWF populist reactionary movement. That's my take on it at least. It was led or started by Karvanyar, who would allegedly slay the Golden Dragon Emperor and throw the EWF out of Dara Happa, making him Emperor of a new and largely independent Dara Happan Empire, even if he was closely allied with Carmania and the Sables Riders of the Hungry Plateau in the war to drive out the EWF. The Karvanyar dynasty was pretty succesful, lasting around 230 years, give or take, before eventually succumbing to Carmanian conquest (whose dynasty was by that point intermarried into the Dara Happan imperial family, iirc).

Troll maps! Carved into smooth stone. Analysed by touch. Disturbingly accurate.

But what if the Holy Country isn't a Disneyland, but a Westworld...?

Yes, exactly. KoDP was one of my first impressions as well, besides the webcomic (which is more Ancient world). The Veterans are more qualified to talk about this than me, but I think shifting aesthetics and such is just inevitable which franchises that have such long publication histories and shifting ownership and management. That being said, Chaosium is heavily investing in some great artwork currently, so I wouldn't expect things to change anytime soon, nor would I really want it to. The modern art is great (even if I personally would save certain elements from yesteryear for my own personalized vision.)

I'm a fairly recent newcomer to Glorantha (2015 or so), so I'm basing this on what I've seen discussed here, but basically there was a period of time when artistic depictions and nomenclature for the Orlanthi based itself quite a lot on Anglo-Saxon/Old English-y styles. This has since been altered, and official publications will now use more neutral or more in-universe styles. So, less "thane" and "cottar", and more "noble" and "semi-unfree/tenant farmer", for example. It's a stylistic choice, there's nothing preventing anyone from continuing to using it in their own RPs.

Vadrus is one of those gods who capital-D-Died during the Darkness, so it's difficult to tell. Considering his more violent nature though, it's safe to say that they wouldn't have been fans. The thing is that while we often talk about Glorantha in terms of Bronze Age, a lot of Glorantha's technologies and societies are more like Classical Antiquity or even Migration Era. The Lunar Empire has a lot Roman and Hellenistic aspects to them, of course. The Malkioni draw a good deal on stuff like the Sassanids, Byzantines, Sarmatians, etc. Orlanthi are all over the place, from Bronze Age Hittites and Greeks (Mycaneans, Minoans, others) , through Bronze/Iron Age Celts to (even if it's kind of a no-no to mention) Dark Age Anglo-Saxons and Scandinavians. Praxians and Pentans draw on both Eurasian steppe nomads as well as the Prairie Indians of North America. For many of these cultures there's also a bunch of stuff from the Indian subcontinent from widely disparate eras included. And of course, lots of purely original elements not readily traceable to real history. This all being said, this is more or less how things are: during the God Time, up until sometime during the Storm/Dark Age, the Dara Happans widely used chariots for warfare. At some point, horse-riding became more common. This trend may have been temporarily reversed in the Dawn/First Age, but by the Third Age at the very least, the chariot - in most Gloranthan cultures - is relegated to very specific battlefield roles: - Battlefield taxi for important people or potential shock troops. - Mobile observational platform. - Religious purposes, such as carrying icons, effigies, artifacts, etc. - Any mix of the above. It's possible that there are other roles, but those are the ones commonly mentioned here on site, I think.

Now that you mention it, that blue-skinned guy in Prince of Sartar has a mustache that looks vaguely Disney-like...🤔

God Learners were arguably THE defining feature of Second Age Glorantha, at least anywhere near the coast. The Dara Happans were therefore pretty shielded from the GLs, being in the continental interior. However, the expansion of the GLs into Fronela did cause a Fronelan Malkioni noble and his army to march into exile, and invade Peloria from the west. They founded Carmania. Carmanians started off as Fronelan Malkioni (of a different school than the God Learners) and when they settled around Oronin and Pelanda, they adopted the patronage of a goddess there (she became the mother of their first Shah/Emperor, Karmanos). From that point on, they more or less take the shape of a dualistic theistic society that still practices sorcery. So they worship Idovanus, the Lord of Wisdom (and usually associated with light), and placate, but do not worship, GanEstoro/Ganesatarus, the Lord of Lies (and associated with darkness). In addition on them, the Carmanians also worship, if I recall correctly, the Pelandan pantheon, sometimes called the Jernotian High Gods, of which there are seven. They have pretty clear and strong influences from Sassanid Persia, with their religion drawing inspiration from Zoroastrianism, and their social classes drawing names from Persian history (their Wizard Caste are called Magi/Viziers for example, and their ruler is the Shah, they also are famous for heavy cavalry, along Cataphract lines.) The Carmanians ruled over Dara Happa for a while during the Third Age, iirc, and during that period, they tried to combine Yelm and Idovanus, I believe (drawing on vaguely remembered Fortunate Succession passages here, I could be wrong), but it didn't really last. The Gray Age was the period of time after the Devil was destroyed/Chaos defeated, and immediately before the Sun rose from the Underworld. I believe it's synonymous with the Silver Age. It's sort of an inbetween-period between the God Age and Time (but still counts as God Age, I think?). Society is barely clinging on, on the brink of extinction, but supernatural heroes are still around doing great feats. Very post-apocalyptic. I could be wrong, but I believe there was only one dome. It was more oblong-shaped, since it was shaped by an iron ram in the north cleaving the glacier in twain, I believe, but honestly I could be misremembering. Oh, big time. From a Dara Happan perspective, the Orlanthi they are fighting now aren't much different from the Storm barbarians they fought in the God Age. However, in fairness to the Dara Happans, this notion of thinking personality as inheritable was also very common in real history. Lots of ancient, medieval, and even fairly recent texts talk about different regions and ethnic groups having different "temperaments" and "mentalities", etc. Groups in Glorantha also do this thing where the reuse ancient names for ethnic groups when the encounter new groups that vaguely fit the description from their old stories, too, so it might seem like the same foreign enemy comes around every few centuries, but in reality it's a completely different group. Romans and Greeks also did this a lot, IRL. This also brings to mind that the current inhabitant of Dara Happa might not have a whole lot in common with its God Age inhabitants, besides the name. But that's speculative. Ironically, the Dara Happans have a lot more to do with Valind than most Orlanthi, at least the ones from south of Peloria. Most of Peloria has pretty harsh winters. Yuthuppa is COLD. They don't like "Valindum/us", obviously. One of the most popular things the Lunars ever did was arrange an annual heroquest to go into the Glacier and beat up Valind to force milder winters. Yes, those are definitely very different narratives, but that's the God Time for you. Several things can be true at once. Or maybe not. No one knows. There are other myths about the Hill of Gold too. It's a massive pilgrimage destination for several cultures. Well, sorta. The thing is, the Guide actually gives us very specific survival numbers of Orlanthi and other groups around Dragon Pass at the Dawn of Time. Each survival site (cave, fortress, hideout, etc.) number in the high dozens or very low hundreds. In this context, Raibanth having seven (extended) families numbering perhaps something like 50-200 individuals squatting around the central temples or along the river, is entirely plausible. I honestly doubt there was much slavery going on at that point: it just wouldn't have been economically feasible. There might've been class distinctions, admittedly, but when everyone is barely clinging by for survival by the skin of their teeth, even that becomes less likely. But yeah, we just have no idea. I can imagine similar numbers for Yuthuppa. Paradoxically, Alkoth might've been doing pretty well, all things considered. But then "doing well" possibly entailed some pretty dark pacts with underworld gods and some pretty terrible rites, so that might've not been a better alternative. Keep in mind, that by the time the Orlanthi reached Dara Happa, they genuinely did not recognize the Alkothi as human beings, or at the very least did not see them as the same kind of people as the rest of Dara Happa. They were by all accounts basically demonic at that point, whatever that actually entails (though not Chaotic). Raibanth is the "de facto" capital of Dara Happa, mostly because that's where the Footstool of Yelm is, so that's where the Emperor is usually (or always?) crowned, and that's where the Gods Wall is (the giant cliffside-inscription of One Hundred Dara Happan Gods). But strictly speaking, each of the Tripolis are city-states unto themselves. Absolutely! At the Dawn, Dara Happa, and most of Peloria, was largely de-urbanized, and most of the survivors were either hunter-gatherers, or nomads. Of these nomads the horse riders were the most succesful. Contrary to your first impressions (or at least mine), these were not foreign invaders or anything, these were genuine, real-article former Dara Happans who'd adopted the nomadic lifestyle (like the Hyalorings we mentioned earlier). So when they ride back in to take over the cities again, they have a pretty decent claim, all things considered. Modern Dara Happans see this kinda like a foreign occupation though. The Jenarong was one such horse nomad coalition/tribe/dynasty, and they are the most prominent, but there were several others all over Peloria. They re-instated the status of Emperor with new rites (as well as they could, and with their own ideas). They're "barbaric", quite aloof and demanding tribute more than actively ruling according to conservative Dara Happan values. I suppose you could argue that they kinda view the urban/sedentary population as their serfs more than anything, but even that's not quite true: they still recognized and elevated direct descendance from Yelm, for example. (The first Jenarong Emperor honored the Seven Families of Raibanth with nobility, and created a separate class of immigrants to be commoners). The end of the Jenarong dynasty is when the Glorious Reascent is written, to legitimize the new Dara Happan dynasty (Khordavu and descendants) that rises and in many ways positions itself as a more authentic "native" Dara Happan dynasty (even if that's difficult to measure). The Horse Nomads are thrown out of the Pelorian bowl with World Council help (Orlanthi, Trolls, Elves, Dwarfs, etc.) and the Horse Nomads become the ancestors of modern Pentans (or at least part of them, mixing with those already there, but Pent was almost completely uninhabited prior to this). Pentans have never forgotten about their ancestral homelands to the west, and their birthright. (The most decisive battle during this expulsion of nomads is called Argentum Thri'ile, iirc, which @Joerg has mentioned before) Then comes the whole Bright Empire deal. As always, my comments are subject to poor memory and incorrect interpretations!

There's a goddess in Esrolia called Imarja. Imarja is a bit complicated, because according to one of Greg's books, "Esrolia: The Land of 10,000 Goddesses", she is identified as a Creatrix, by acting as a goose that digs the land up from the waters, and laying eggs that produce living beings. (This is a role that overlaps with the Mother Goddess archetype, which also includes Ernalda, Asrelia, Gata, etc. Basically, the whole Earth Goddess Complex overlaps and can be seen as different facets of the same Goddess. Anywho.) However, Imarja is perhaps most notable for providing the people of Nochet with the Compact of Nochet, which is a sort-of-constitution or city bylaw on which their society is funded. While Imarja is apparently worshipped as a separate deity in her own temple, it's not too much of a stress that, at least in the context of Notchet, that she represents a kind of legalistic, urban aspect of Ernalda. I believe there is, but could not find, also a former queen of Notchet who was deified as a sort of aspect of "Ernalda the (City) Queen". Others probably know. EDIT: I believe there might be other sources that paint Imarja as a kind of spiritual or mystical entity not directly contacted, so my take might be overly colored by having only encountered her in "Esrolia, 10k G.".

Is Illumination even common enough for that to be a factor people would consider? Also, in 3rd Age Dragon Pass, Illumination is almost synonymous with Lunarism (according to Jeff, at least) so accusations of Lunar allegiances seems like a likely byproduct, or even a prior suspicion.

Isn't there something about the Dara Happan writing system evidently being borrowed from Pelanda? As you showed with YarGan/Arganum, there's at least a trend of Dara Happan names/names of people in Dara Happan myths seem to quite often be derived from Pelandan ideograms. (Buserian, Oria, and probably others).

At least a couple cataclysms hit Peloria during the Storm/Dark Age. During this period, the original Golden Age Empire (the Decapolis of Murharzarm) gradually diminishes, almost one city by one. I want to note that everything below is likely heavily interpreted, misinterpreted and reinterpreted (as well as re-misinterpreted) by Dara Happans scholars with different motivations. So reader beware: First off there's a huge Flood that covers the Pelorian bowl. It kills off a lot of people, but there's a Ark story, where Emperor Anaxial builds a big friggin boat and loads it up with all the "righteous" survivors and the various animals and plants the Dara Happans know about. However, to explain why bad people exist afterwards, they include a story about how one woman who was not among the accepted number is allowed onto the boat and marries someone on the boat (could be Anaxial himself, I forget). This Flood coincides with flooding elsewhere in Genertela, and is part of a general trend of the Sea Gods being the most powerful at this time. Eventually they are beaten back, but that sorta happens off-screen for the Dara Happans, I think. They mostly ride it out. Then, after the Flood recedes, the Dara Happans resettle their cities (arguably, this can be read as them settling entirely new cities and claiming they were more ancient, but that's more mythical deconstruction for you). I believe there's some talk about immigrants from elsewhere, but I could be mixing this up with the Gray Age. Also, during this period, the supposed original home city of the Moon Goddess, Mernita, is crushed by the Blue Moon that crashes (after this point there is no moon until the Red Moon rises). The Dara Happans see this as divine punishment commanded by the Emperor, but they disagree a bit on exactly how. The Lunars obviously have different views on it. Anyway, after a while of renewed imperialism, the dominion of the Sea Gods is replaced with that of the Storm Gods, and this means both Vingkotlings to the south, as well as the Glacier to the north. Thus begins the Ice Age. During this time a large ice sheets creeps over central and western Genertela, and Dara Happ is caught in the middle of it. Emperor Kestinoros refuses to give way to it, and dies (also losing another city) Then the new emperor, Manarlavus comes up with the plan to basically let the ice sheet grow over them, basically giving them a dome inside. It's during this period that "Six Ages: Ride Like The Wind" takes place. It follows the Riders/Hyalorings/Hyalorong, who in the game are stated to be citizens of the Dara Happan city of Nivorah who refused to believe in the whole "Dome"-plan, and instead left their city and became nomads/semi-nomads. Thus they have a Solar pantheon, but quite different social values. Another subgroup of Nivorans, called the Wheels, retain more Dara Happan values (patriarchalism, aristocratic social divisions, and are chariot-focused rather than horse-riders) and are rivals of the Riders. At some point the Roof of Manarlavus is broken, and the interior is flooded with barbarians and attackers. The dude who defends Dara Happa becomes the new Emperor, and goes with the Cold Sun (Antirius/Yelmalio) to the Hill of Gold, and that whole myth plays out. - After this point, there's a dynasty of foreigners ruling Dara Happa (the Dara Happans gloss it as a single Emperor, called Manimat, but the actual people they belonged to (the Manimati, Stork-worshippers from Darjiin, iirc.) count him as several individuals *I THINK*. - After that ends, we get Kazkurtum/The Empty Emperor, which is basically the Dara Happan way of saying the Greater Darkness and the absolute collapse of large-scale societies. Survivors huddle in ruins or abandon settled life altogether. Nomads and hunter-gatherers are more successful. Apparently, at the Dawn, Raibanth was down to seven families (although we have no idea how large each "family" was, of course, though could be large noble dynasties, although somehow I doubt it, even though they became so later). --- I didn't know where to put this, but also: during the Golden and likely Early Storm Ages, the Dara Happans not only used dinosaurs as mounts and livestock, but also had large, flightless birds they rode. This was before horses even existed. They may also have had large flying birds, I don't know, and then there's the slightly conspiratorial idea that the original population of Dara Happa might have had sorta bird-like qualities themselves, but that's more a neat idea than built directly from textual references.

Yeah. The archery god specifically is called Sagittus. There are probably more I can't recall.

That's a functional way to look at it, I'd say. Dayzatar is the distant, spiritual, intellectual, ascetic light of the highest heavens. He is pure, but lacks the worldly presence to rule by his ascetic nature. Lodril is the immanent, physical, raw, embodied heat of the Earth and bodies, of life and vitality. He is fiery and strong, but lacks the elevated authority to rule by his debased nature. Yelm is, in Yelmic thought, obviousy, the perfect center, blending immanence and transcendence. He is majestic authority. Another "Cold Light" deity is the "Lightfore" complex, which is a whole can of worms in itself, but basically there was a deity that guarded and helped people during the Storm Age/Darkness, who lacked Yelm's heat, but had some of his justice. This complex includes deities like Yelmalio, Elmal, Kargzant, Antirius, and probably others. Arguably they are all the same. The Sun In Winter, as it were. Dara Happans consider it a Portion of Yelm, the part that stayed in the sky to guide and protect his people when Yelm was torn apart by the injustice of the Darkness. (They don't believe that Orlanth murdered Yelm, instead they say he, or someone analogous, murdered Murharzarm.)

This isn't a great analogy, because the divisions of power are very different, but it's *tempting* to think of the priestesses of Asrelia as sort of a Supreme Court to the Executive Branch of the priestesses of Ernalda. The latter looks a lot more exciting and dynamic, and is the public face of most things, but the former - and the age thing is sorta applicable too, by coincidence - has some pretty severe abilities to shape what the Ernaldans can and cannot get away with. It's a strained analogy, but it might aid in some things. (Of course, in Esrolia, this gets especially muddy since the Asrelian Grandmothers are at the same time really acting as a pseudo-parliament as well as dynastic heads as well).

Don't they control the granaries as well?

Forgot to add: the sublimination of Shargash's fertility aspect is probably more accurately his "son", Alkor, the City God of Alkoth, and who I believe "took over" one of the marriages? He's also called the Green God, isn't he, or am I mixing in fan conjecture? Anyway, Shargash also has an association with drums in at least one myth, and in Six Ages, the Alkothi are depicted using Aztrc-style shrieking whistles, so I'd argue he is at least somewhat associated with terror and mental warfare as well, a bit like Ares (with Polestar being the obvious Athena parallel). I have lots of deeply heretical ideas about Shargash, but I'll avoid adding any for the sake of poor OP. EDIT: I wrote this on my phone, and it kept changing "Shargash" into "Shariah", which made this post very weird. Apologies.

There's a Bruce Wayne joke in here somewhere.