Sir_Godspeed

Back in June, I believe, I made a thread asking about this very question, ie. their relation. No answer then. Interesting to get now. Of a kind, at least. This can also be tied into the complex Heat-Matter interaction of the Entekosiad, as ViSaruDaran interacts with BesedEria (and multiple gradients above and below mirroring this interaction at different levels).

The Esrolian myths shows that we're still dealing with mutually conflicting, overlapping myths here, which is nice. Panaxles being a being from the God Time and not just a Silver Age Hero is news to me, and his conflation with Lodril's acts is interesting, if wild. Merngala is a new character to me. She kinda seems to be redoing some acts of the various earth goddesses, which I suppose is the point. It's been a while since I read "10k Goddesses", and I wonder how she fits into the timeline put forth there. Most of all, I'm very surprised to see Maran and Ernalda's father being named as Lodril. Or, hell, them HAVING a father to begin with. I wonder which groups believe this and why it's not presented in most genealogies we tend to see (like the one in the Sourcebook). Als: not the father of Esrola. Curious. I also wonder to which degree Esrolans identify Lodril with Veskarthan. One would assume they're treated as synonyms in the Holy Country, but who knows.

Woah, chill dude.

Lions were really widespread in ancient times, including related subspecies which apparently ranged way into the Pontic and Eurasian steppes. (Apprently the jury is out on whether modern lions lived in Western Europe, but there's evidence for it, iirc.) They appear to have been really adaptable. Going with the Anatolia/Rocky Mountains/Caucasus comparison with Dragon Pass, seems like lions would fit in quite well. /sidenote

I realize it's a bit fraught to draw comparisons to RW politics, but somewhat like totalitarian ideologies can operate within democratic societies (as parties entering elections, etc.) but still operate with the goal to overthrow that democratic system, it's possible that the Chaos Rune is bound to play within certain rules of the Compromise, but ultimately with the goal to overthrow the Compromise. IMHO, Chaos isn't able to do so alone. It requires more of the cosmic forces to break with the Compromise first. Something else needs to put the cracks in, as it were. At least this is how the Gods War unfolded. Hence the importance of Sacred Time rites and upholding various cultural taboos (whether this is based on subjective beliefs or universal laws is somewhat irrelevant).

But they are also sheep, aren't they? In a heroquest-y fashion. I wonder if cirrostratus clouds (cloudhawks) have "wings" on the Otherside or during holy days.

Cloudsheep don't have wings, I think? Did Lokamayadon's mount have wings?

That's true. Which of course entails a lot of risk in itself. Little wonder most outlaws have short, harsh lives.

Jokes aside, groups probably try that, but it only works a few times at most.

A great inspiration to use.

There's always the overhanging threat that violating or aggressively "gaming" customs makes you disliked not just by the group you're feuding with, but also by other, adjacent groups. A neutral clan might hear about how your clan really screwed over your enemy in a way that's "just not cool, man" and so get less inclined to ally or align with your clan, because you're trouble. This is offset by a whole host of rules, of course. The wealth and military power of the clan, magical standing, etc., existing alliances, existing reasons for the the feuding, etc. These can probably be combined in ways that can justify whatever outcome you personally think is the most desireable from a storytelling perspective.

Suffixes like "-ken" or "-lore" are pseudo-old timey English/Anglo terms that you might or might not want to use. (Malki-ken/Meldek-lore) Not sure what the French equivalent would be. Tolkien preserved the wonderfully evocative "sigaldry" from a Middle English (15th century, iirc) text. Meaning something like "conjuration, sorcery, witchcraft" and even "lying" (false speech).

While not an equivalent system of the Orlanthi weregild, I recall reading about compensation systems in South Sudan. Either the Nuer or the Dinka (both pastoral cattle herders with a history of endemic raiding up to the 20th century) are seemingly obligated to haggle for the compensation, in order to ritually satisfy their deceased comrade. Simply settling for a compensation without pushing would be considered admitting defeat, so they basically set up what is essentially a performance which ends in the ritual sacrifice of a cow by the paying part, where the smoke and smell will sate the deceased and the two living parties will share the actual meat (sharing a meal being obviously a very public show of reconciliation). To align this a bit more with Orlanthi customs - since ancestors are known to get prissy about their descendants changing their ways, it's possible that they will negatively effect their living descendants for not pushing for "appropriate" weregild, or indeed, continue a blood feud. They might have to be placated with sacrifice to make their ire drop. Just spitballing. Though I always like the whole "strategically inferior decisions are made because the ancestors are really obstinate and grumpy about this sort of thing" that you see in the King of Dragon Pass games, etc.

Undead Aldryami makes me think of the recent video game adaptation of Drycha the Briarmaven of Woe from Warhammer Fantasy:

Spirit magic is usually related to a connection to a spirit, right? So it would probably be articulated in terms of those spirits. "I wish to seek the boon of the spirits of this sacred site", etc., or "I, [name], am kin of the spirits, and they come when I call upon them, to aid me in my deeds.", etc. Rune magic is tied to deities, and are seen as blessings, gifts, etc. "My Lord Orlanth blessed me with his mighty breath, and for this I give thanks by sacrifice and right deed." Sorcery in and of itself is seen as godless, ie. bad, magic by Orlanthi and most other theists - however there are built-in loopholes, such as accessing it through Lhankor Mhy. This makes it culturally acceptable (at least theoretically), and so for social purposes, sorcery accessed in this manner would probably be spoken about like the Rune magic above. Western Rune magic though, is deeply suspect at best, and outright sacriligeous at worst, so would be given negative terms, whether hateful or fearful. The term "sorcery" is likely a negative one in-universe, much like it has been in the RW for most of history. Any kind of organized magic/general skill system might be referred to as "the art" or "craft" or "lore" though. In real life, what we term magic or miracleworking is in many cultures not explicitly separated from what we consider non-supernatural things, and this is probably even more true in Glorantha, so it makes sense that, say, "Gustbran's Craft" encompasses both ordinary bronzesmithing and the spells associated with Gustbran, for example. Same with the Carpenter god's skills and magic, and so on. In many cases, given Glorantha's explicitly magical nature, there's not really any "mundanity" to separate away from magic, for example in terms of healing (illness is a spiritual matter, for example, and so on). This might also work in the opposite. For a Zzaburite, his ability to command elementals and use sorcery is not separate from his function as a reader of texts and as a scribe, rather it generally seems to be an extension of it. So the "sorcerous art" could possibly encompass reading Zzaburite scripts in general, as well as the actual process of spellcasting. (I mean, the word "spell" is a pretty clear indicator that the English language sees command of words and language as inherently powerful as well). Point is, Gloranthans all have what in anthropology is called "situatedness". They have a specific angle of view on what goes around, and that colors how they talk about it. No one is going to be exactly the same, though obviously some perspectives and viewpoints are a lot more common that others. Still, a Seshnelan noble and Talastari thrall aren't going to talk about "sorcery" in even remotely the same terms.

Couple ideas: - "board game" for giants. - Weird behaviour by gremlin-like earth spirits. - Some weird God Time pattern that keeps repeating for reasons lost.

The second one.

Benefits tend to be associated with repeating an narrative role that ended in that benefit, so maybe they could end up entering into a narrative role that was obscure to the Ludoch but present nonetheless.

If you're up to do some original mythbuilding, the Veskarthi/Caladrans might possibly preserve some mythic memory of Lodril's Mountain, which was drowned by the Seas and became part of the artificial Mostali continent of Somelz, iirc. I am unsure how it relates to Mostal's Mountain, though if it was close to it, I guess it became part of Curustus or other parts of Jrustela. There are several drowned lands in Orlanthi myth, some of which might be turned into hidden islands if you're so inclined. Dini, the original homeland of the proto-Storm People. Mavorela and Envorela, both lands they migrated through along the way (Envorela is especially associated with Barntar and Durev, and the group called the Durevings, another pre-Orlanthi group that originally seem to have had their own pantheon but later joined the Vingkotlings). Generally, I think, islands tend to be portrayed as holdouts or refuges from the seas, and seem to be at odds with the Seas rather than aligned with them - the Seas generally having a hostile attitude towards anything dry in most mythologies in Glorantha. There are always exceptions, like Kylerela above, or the seas of Choralinthor and (the now-gone) Faralinthor, or the Duke of the Deep in the East, who are all seas that are portrayed as friendly towards surface dwellers. It's also possible that some merfolk, like the Ludoch and Ouroi view the surface and islands (especially the shallow waters around them) more favorably and might have myths where island deities are friends and allies, or even providers, rather than "stupid food that refuses to be food", to paraphrase a bit.

Sure, why not! The Diroti were a Storm Age people who lived on boats. They take their names from Diros, the Orlanthi god of boats (and father of Pelaskos, the god of sea fishing), but it seems that much like many of the other groups that would eventually coalesce into the Lightbringer Pantheon, they had their own independent culture prior to that. As far as I remember from various maps, they were active in and around the seas south of Genertela (and beyond, while there were seas in other places). It's very possible that there was some notable event where merfolk sunk a significant Diroti ship, for example.

Ad hoc, I'd assume. She's been poor for a long time, after all.

I'm not particularly well-versed in the nitty gritty of Praxian cults, but this seems like a discretionary issue more than a strictly dogmatic one, ie. if the relevant Sable leader believes this is enough of a problem for them, they will act to break her free or at the very least do some counter-raiding. If they don't, or if they suspect that the losses will be too high for whatever reason (maybe the main body of the clan she belonged to is located fairly far away and traveling to exact vengeance would be hazardous) then they won't. This seems like it's just up to you to decide, imho.

The gritty texturing is great.

I'm using the Chrome browser on a laptop, and I see it fine as well.

Can this forum get a shocked/surprised face reaction? I find myself often missing one when people share these amazing artworks.