Sir_Godspeed

Now I have a hankering for some good, oven baked root vegetables. Some turnip, beetroot, parsnip, parsley root. Yum.

Someone else on this forum wanted to settle their clan somewhere, though their desire to be somewhere a bit out of the way, so as to give the new clan some time to develop their own unique clan customs. I believe someone, possibly @Joerg mentioned a number unsettled valley in the foothills of the Western Rockwoods? Possibly the Red Dragon Vale or something?

Canonical!

This raises some questions: does "Lodril" have an independent existence in Orlanthi lands as a separate deity from Veskarthan, or are they two terms merely treated as synonyms for the same deity? Chaosium's texts seem to imply the latter, but it sometimes gets a bit weird (like why would Caladralanders need to "heat their soil", it's a subtropic humid coastal mountain terrain). EDIT: I realize that Caladralanders are probably outliers, but I wonder whether there is more similarity between them and mainstream Orlanthi, or whether mainstream Orlanthi are more similar to Solar Pelorians in their view of Lodril (keeping in mind that there are lots of Pelorian Orlanthi)

Glory, glory!

Where do the Sun County folks originate? Are they originally Kethaelans/Kerofinelans, for the most part? If so, the agricultural importance of Lodril/Veskarthan is probably not that great. However, if there's a large Pelorian-derived contingent, you'd assume the Lodril-Oria duo would be important for any commoner farming village/plantation.

The mustache! XD

That's not bad!

I wonder if Maniria overlapped with mythical Envorela. In that case, the same wood-working, Earth-centric gods (though not necessary Earth gods themselves, elemntally) that we find among the Vingkotlings may have had some influences there: Durev, Orane, Orstan, (Barntar?) etc. The Durevings did have a prior existance as an independent people prior to being assimilated into the Vingkotling confederation, or so we are led to believe at least. There's perhaps something to be said for an interaction between the Dureving Mini-Pantheon and the Aldryami as well. (Durev was carved from wood and magically turned alive by his woodcarver father, amongst other things). Nevermind the whole Mraloti complex tied into all of this and the native Cthonic/Earth powers. Also there are the Diroti, who arrived after the Flooding of Envorela, iirc, and so would have added something, but you've probably taken that into account already. It would be interesting to see if there's some interplay here with the myth of Heler and Aroka. Sovereign Heler raided the Air and such. The Diroti were Air gods who raided by boat. There's a weird parallel/contrast there, I don't know. It just intuitively feels like they would've interacted at some point, but maybe I'm seeing ties where there are none. The two above are things Maniria would at least partially share with Kethaeal/Kerofinela, though, and it would probably be hard to distinguish exactly what were native beliefs at the Dawn (or pre-Dawn mythic events, same difference) and what were later Lightbringer imports. EDIT: Actually, you might've considered all of this already. I tend to forget which talking points we've already nailed once topics go on for a few weeks, apologies if I just brought up irrelevant stuff!

If you want additional social framework for changing castes, there is always adoption. Including the adoption of adults. Changes lineage, legal status, etc. It happens in the real world, so it is not too fanciful. I am a little bit wary of overexaggerating the isolationism of Kaxtorplose (or any place, rather) too much. While it is technically possible for them to remain isolated in all regards for centuries, it just seems very probable that some people, particularly Dronars, would have intermarried with surrounding Orlanthi by now. Even if it was just a slight trickle, over decades and centuries that amounts to some interethnic mobility. It's not a huge sticking point, but it bears thinking about. I'm sure the Zzaburi and Talari fret over it, though, or perhaps try and obfuscate it as much as possible.

Ooooohhh... Regenerating walls, anyone?

Keep in mind that Orlanth himself is called "The Larnsting", as Larnste is his maternal grandfather. Larnste manifests in Orlanth through the "Twisting Wind" an aspect of wind/change/movement that could not be bound by Lokamaydon, iirc.

I, uh, interpreted this differently than you probably intended. 🤣

I think that's a good point. While it might make sense in a munchkinny sense, this kind of systemic exploitation is likely culturally unacceptable to many.

Sartar appears to have done so. His change appears to have been based on some previous forms, iirc, but he did innovate, and in a seemingly methodic, planned manner. He was both Orlanth-initiated and associated with Issaries, I think? Orlanth did innovate mythicall, by forming the Storm Tribe, although steered in the direction by Ernalda. Obviously the draconic Orlanthi innovated, even if the project went south. Alakoring innovated in the sense of removing the independence of the priesthood and putting them under the authority of the tribal king (Rex). Issaries might be a good shout. Traders and middlemen are often good irl at finding the intersections in systems and exploit them.

Some of the buildings with gables have the upper gable (the triangular part) emerge from the main wall, is that a specific architectural detail, or just a relic of the graphical engine used? (ex. 1:10)

I'm not sure if you read more than the opening post, but I think the issue was discussed well and broadly answered through various responses.

Thanks Jeff, that is really interesting and enlightening! 😄

I wonder what, specifically, Jeff intended with the term "chivalrous". The word conjures various connotations, not all of which are applicable, I'm guessing.

I believe @Jeff has described the Shaker Temple a few times in this forum, in various threads, partly commenting on the climate, population, agriculture, etc.

@Joerg, I suspect that Jeff's point about the Orlanthi of Dragon Pass is less about biological descent, and more about cultural continuity. Sure, there might very well be a significant portion of pre-EWF Kerofinelan descent of the migrants that eventually resettled Dragon Pass, but their traditions, customs and variant was by that point, likely thoroughly "Kethaela-ized"/"Heortland-ized", as it were. I also think Jeff keeps pointing how relatively "quickly" people forget history for a reason. Any ancestral memory of pre-EWF Orlanthi life in Dragon Pass is likely incredibly garbled and synthesized. Some of the existing temples may provide some anchors of reasonably continuity, but even that's not a guarantee. Pardon if I'm wrong.

Could Voriof and Voria be considered twins by some people? It would make sense, though Voria is sometimes kept apart from Voriof for various reasons (for example to make her stand out more clearly in the Maiden-Mother-Crone trinity that Ernalda sometimes appears in). Also Voria's father is not explicitly given, I think? So it could conveniently be Orlanth as with Voriof, but also whoever else fits at any given time.

Didn't the Umathelans and (human) Jrusteli in part come from Maniria?

Do we have any sort of writing on the nature of the region's Land Goddess that explains this? Sometimes it seems like the quakes are imposed externally, sometimes it seems they're caused by internal mythic mechanisms. It'd be interesting to have some lore that perhaps shows a mythic precedent for why Maniria tends to, uh, roll over, every once in a while.

Back in June, I believe, I made a thread asking about this very question, ie. their relation. No answer then. Interesting to get now. Of a kind, at least. This can also be tied into the complex Heat-Matter interaction of the Entekosiad, as ViSaruDaran interacts with BesedEria (and multiple gradients above and below mirroring this interaction at different levels).