Sir_Godspeed

While Vinga herself did get pregnant, I've never seen any particular idea about vingans in general being associated with any particular sexual orientation, and same for nandans, though I could be wrong. Their identity seems far more associated with gender performance. In short, vingans perform masculine societal roles as a general rule, including mythic/ritual ones (and mundane labour). Likewise, nandans generally perform feminine social roles. This might warrant its own thread, I don't want to drag this topic too far in a thread with another, specific topic.

Many thanks, O most terrible and awesome overlord! 😁

So Storm Pentans are largely shamanic rather than theistic?

So ZZ is a trickster in the same sense Jason Vorhees is a trickster. JUMP SCARE!

I would too, but you never know.

Sorry for creating an aside, but is this particular view also extended to the other main gender non-conforming deity, Nanda? Is he the male manifestation of Ernalda?

If I recall correctly, Heortling cities, instead of clans, have a number of different guilds, or professional associations based around job-patron gods (or rather, the guild and cult is the same thing, unless I'm mistaken). Balancing the desires of these different guilds withotu pissing off any of them is a dynamic and ongoing task for your players. I'm a bit sketchy on the influence of clans in urban areas, but that's how I've read it.

Am I the only one seeing this? What's going on here? Should I be worried, or is it just a minor hickup?

Ignorant question: why is it that "human gods" don't seem to cross over to Elder Races that much? I mean, we have the Cold Sun (Yelmalio) for the Aldryami, but why don't trolls have Eurmal, Issaries, etc. (not necessarily literally, but analogues, I don't much consider AA a direct Issaries analogue) While they are usually depicted as "humans", this is obviously a narrative convention. "Greek gods look like Greeks, Scythian gods like Scythians, and if the cattle had gods, they would be as unto cattle", and all that. So why don't we see depictions of an uz Humakt, Aldryami Issaries, uz Chalana Arroy or Ludoch Lhankor Mhy? These are just examples, of course. LM writing does not work well for Ludoch, but beyond specific examples, I am more wondering why these "non-elemental" deities don't seem to cross over into the elemental Elder Races pantheons. Is it simply a case of - at least in the case of the trolls - them emerging from the Underworld with a (to borrow a linguistic term) "pantheon isolate"? They didn't have access to these other archetypes, so they had to develop their own?

Thanks for the info, @Jeff!

Chilis arrived in India in 1497, less than five years after transatlantic contact, which I find quite astounding honestly. It really goes to show that people are quick to adopt a good thing if they can get their hand on it. Sumer-Siberia. Sumberia. Siber? Hm. (I guess Oslir is basically the Ob/Irtysh. Well, perhaps more accurately the Volga in terms of development and terrain, but Ob in terms of direction & estuary.) Rye bread is quite overpowering, though very good at creating a sustained sense of fullness (I'm looking at you, wheat and rice). It does however go excellently with cured meats and fish (especially salmon or, if you can get it, trout. ). Add some radishes, asparagus, dill, and some kind of citrusy flavor, or in more temperate climes, something else sour like common sorrel. Or you can slap some herring and onion on top of it (although pickling might be out of the question for Glorantha).Or shrimp. Or goat cheese! Not too bad, if you can get your hands on these sorts of things. Might be tough for your average Loskalmi or Junoran peasant though.

So did Etyries apotheosize because she invented the Limited Company and shares?

Good point! This points to something deeper. I was first going to suggest that in Glorantha, flowers evolved before wind-pollination, but then the existance of bees being predicated on the emergence of Darkness Folk (including Gorakiki's broods) after the death of Yelm somewhat put that to rest. HOWEVER - what if the ORIGINAL pollinators of Flamal Earth-Husband's many children were Celestials? Colibris come to mind. Then WHHOOOSH comes Umath. He gives rise to a new form of plant reproduction. Something more simple, but sturdy, hardy, much like Storm itself. Asrelia waves her (then) golden hair, and catches the errant breeze's attention. The rest is mythology. Not only that, but beside water-porridge (undoubtedly very common in itself), the highly nutritious milk-porridge is after all the food of a pastoral culture. Grain and milk. Wind (see above point) and cows. That's the emergence of Storm Folk there. I could swear Taro was mentioned somewhere in Revealed Mythologies, but I was wrong. Yam (assuming real yam (Dioscorea) and not American "yam" (sweet potato - ipomoaea batatas)) and "Headfruit" ("Buddha's Head Fruit"?, aka. Custard Apple, or its proper origin name "Cherimoya") are described for the Vaybeti people, as well as sugarcane and tobacco. The issue is that these folks disappear sometime during the Gods War. I would guess that their crops stick around though, since they were "introduced" to the Vaybeti, not created locally. I do miss my friend potato though. As well as turnips, radishes, etc., unless these latters implicitly exist. We do know that the Orlanthi cultivate varieties of cabbage, though, iirc, which might include some root-based cultivars (some kind of prehistoric rutabaga/swede, although the RW version wasn't around until the late middle ages - I *think*.)

Vith has the bifurcated thing going on, but not really anything to do with gender or sex from what I gather. Or, rather, he might very well, but not in the published sources I've read.

Many thanks @Jeff! I'm pleasantly surprised to see @Eff's rye hypothesis confirmed. On the other hand, seeing the wheat-barley dichotomy switched up. Apparently the Orlanthi are big on wheat, now, while the (upland) Pelorians are more into barley. It does fit with what we know of how Peloria & Dara Happa mostly being into beer, while Kethaela (and by extension parts of Dragon Pass) being wine country, but still, it's a bit of a surprise. Obviously, as you said, there's a mix of grains here, based on local traditions, climate & terrain, but still, this'll need some time to sink in for me. Oh, and oats in Seshnela is a surprise too. Guess they're big porridge eaters over there.

For some reason I always imagined Heler as an androgynous youth (but still technically adult), along Greek pottery styles or something. Not sure why.

Or indeed Brahma (*a* Creation God of post-Vedic (iirc) Hinduism), which is popular alongside the "Trimurti" (Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva), even though both the Trimurti and Brahma are relatively rarely worshipped in real-life Hinduism, with Vishnu and Shiva being vastly more common.

Reputable sources from inside the Celestial Party believe so. More at 11.

"Sorted out" brings me associations of roughing them up, which I have to admit I find a bit funny. Then again, grains are roughed up so maybe it's mythically appropriate. "C'mere, wise guy, eh?" I do have a proposition though: We know that Esrolia is sometimes glossed as "Grainland" in English, so instead of taking the "Esra" -> "Esrola" -> "Esrolia" to literally mean "Barleyland", it's perhaps better to think of Esrola's name as "Grain-woman/goddess/mother", or "She-of-the-Grain" ("Grainess"). It's similar to how Americans refer to maize as "corn", where "corn" is used in several European language to whatever local grain is the most common, or indeed to grain in general (as it does in my native Norwegian). Long story short, this means that - arguably - to its native populations, both Peloria and Esrolia can both be glossed as "Grainland", although they take different grain-goddesses/grain-root-words as the origin of that word-forming. Obviously, just how much this is Theyalan or God-Learner imposition versus native usage is hard to say, partially because linguistics isn't Glorantha's main focus. Other regions do not seem to have followed this crop-nymous system, or if they did, the connection is obscure to me, and perhaps largely irrelevant until we get more insight into the regional diversity of myth, agriculture and all that good stuff. @Eff - I am all out of likes for today, so you'll have to just imagine the sweet "blop" of a like-notification.

Heler was at one time the King of the Universe, I've been told (After Yelm, but before Orlanth?). Possibly during the Flood's greatest extension, possibly in conjunction with Lorion's invasion of Sky (begging the question of whether they are analogous in some way, as Heler likely is to Aroka). This doesn't answer your question though, of course, which is more about the "why" than the "what".

I like the Fronelan connection to rye. As for oats: it does seem to be associated with pigs in Glorantha, which fits well with Maniria (proper), and also parts of Fronela.

I appear to have been momentarily bamboozled by the wiki, which cites Pela and Pelora as associated with rye *and* wheat on each crop's respective page (albeit for Orlanthi and Dara Happans, once again respectively). Peloria would accurately be Wheatland than Barleyland, I agree. Esra is the most common barley goddess for the Orlanthi, I recognize in hindsight. (Not that this matters hugely to the topic at hand - deific associations with crops is likely to be mutable. Also I realize someone will pillory me of mixing together Pela and Pelora).

The thought of referring to the absolutely terrifying being that is Babeester Gor as "Babs" has me in absolute stiches. 😁 And now I'm sad again... curse you for tapping into that ineffable Tolkienesque melancholy!

Dumb question maybe: Since the Blue Moon/Streak is palling it up with Lorion apparently, did the Blue Moon help Lorion invade the Sky back in the day?