Shiningbrow

Who can be excommunicated or cast out... and thus, no longer considered part of the cult/clan. Race is a different issue. But, that's just one possible aspect of trying to instill conditions.

Just to complicate things, I presume you only mean 3 when it's not guarding the body of the shaman as they discorporate.... 😁

I think the Solar pantheon of Yelm and Yelmalio should come earlier, along with the Moon cult (given how closely they're working in the Lunar Empire). Btw, if instead of "fire" we used "light", your sentence would have been a good (or bad) pun! 😁

I would expect the most obvious would be "Only usable by a member of cult/clan X", or of a particular race (eg, uz, mostali, aldryami).

But.. the RQG only lists a handful of cults, and even the upcoming GoGs won't list every possible entity you could sacrifice POW to. The world of Glorantha is not restricted by the RQG rulebooks.

So, now you're suggesting intra-forest rivalries..... Cool and interesting! (just a strange thought - how do Aldryami feel about kinstrife?)

To a large extent, this goes back to who the rulebooks are related to. Are they only meant for PCs? Or are they supposed to incorporate NPCs as well? I'd say, they have to be for the NPCs as well, so the GMs can write them up. So, while there may be a spirit cult that doesn't give Rune spells probably won't be taken up by PCs (unless there's a really good reason to), it is important to have them in the books somewhere so that a GM can take that as a guide. (better than "YGMV, so you do it all yourself")

I'm not sure that's what's been intended in the writings. Yes, there is propitiary worship, but I don't think they've indicated that POW needs to be sacrificed. I've always assumed that it's a 'normal' worship ceremony, in which MPs are given... And that's what I would assume - there's no connection made between the person and the malign entity. Thus, the difference between Malia, and my example above (I don't see it as propitiation, but cult secret).

Ah, yeah, you're right. That should have been an "e.g." Even in my own vision of Glorantha, it's easy to sacrifice POW to an entity and not be an initiate of it (ie, a bond being forged that requires devotion and worship). Shamans do it all the time. You seem to be doing the opposite of what I was thinking. I certainly agree that it could be a Rune spell. However, in my mind, I was thinking that the oasis is hidden from non-initiates (perhaps, the initiates know where the oasis is, and use a password for it to appear to them). The illusion (if used as such) would be in keeping it kept hidden, not in making it appear as real.

Absolutely I think there will be. A spirit (deity, etc) may not have any to give. It wouldn't surprise me if there are spirits out there that don't even know how to give back. I also imagine it's possible to sacrifice your POW to an entity that's dead. Or so long forgotten and hidden that their manifestation in the physical world is so weak they can't do anything. According to WoD, Nysalor is a cult in the Lunar Empire, and one can be initiated into that cult... even though, apparently, said god is dead and dismembered. I expect that the Seven Mothers got nothing in return for their hard-earned efforts for a very long time... until the Red Goddess was born. The difference is - as I see it, and I think is important to remember and focus on - is the difference between the deity/spirit(/entity) - which one gets Rune spells from (and, rarely, other things), and the cult - which is the people who do the worship in an (fairly) organised way. I wrote above that the deity/spirit etc doesn't actually owe you anything, regardless of what level in the cult you happen to be. Granted, they generally will give you things, but it's not common, as not many people are likely to worship a being that doesn't actually do anything for them (not including propitiation here). So, i can easily see a local spirit being worshipped, and even have POW sacrificed to (ie, making initiates), and yet, all the spirit does is make sure something in the local environment is kept fortuitous (eg, water keeps flowing). I can definitely imagine this in the middle of Prax, where a local watering hole will have a spirit that keeps the pool full for initiates, but may mysteriously evaporate when non-initiates are near.

These two could be interesting to discuss.... Forest v forest... why?? (not including the poisonthorns, of course - that's rather obvious) Although you may suggest no rivalries between the Uzuz, I'm not so sure, given that there is the berserker troll Zorak Zoran, and the trader Argan Argar, and the relative pacifist Xiola Umbar... I can see intense personal rivalries between the upper echelon of those cults (not that we'll actually have anything written about such things... probably all hidden away in the dark).

Re: Sleep, and deities... I suppose it depends on how you see Glorantha. Is it made up of gods that all epitomise something in the world? The elements is rather easy to anthropomorphise, but what about actions? Or feelings?? So, if there's a god of torture, and death, then surely they'd be a god of sleep... (and of health, and happiness). Certainly, RQ & Glorantha were based on the mythologies of RW pantheons, but should have have all of them? And thus, able to have spells that affect everything as part of (human??) existence?

I totally disagree with this. I think, the POW is spent in making a long, formal connection with the deity or spirit. There is NO requirement that the deity/spirit gives anything back to the initiate - at all! It may help with a DI, but that's also unlikely a lot of the time. Also, some spirit cults won't have any Rune spells to offer anyway (but may have a unique Spirit Magic spell). In fact, most of the time, the deity/spirit doesn't... it's the cult that actually gives the benefits. Such as spell teaching, skill teaching, etc. Remember, anyone can choose to worship anything. I presume in RQ, that's mechanised by the skill, and the sacrificing of POW (which isn't limited to an ability only held by gods/deities/great spirits). Sometimes, that worship gives something back... a) are you aware you went from weaving to tailoring? b) no, males can be initiated into Ernalda. They just don't have access to the higher ranks. (While the RQG book says there are no restrictions on initiates, and God Talkers don't need to have given birth, which would allow males, Jeff has stated that it's relatively open to any gender - although it wouldn't surprise me if that GT bit gets a restriction). As per the book, She is the goddess of women, sex, community, and all the things that live on and in the Earth. It would be silly to say that all things on the earth... as long as they're female. (FTR, I'm not against gender restrictions for cults. Just pointing out the RAW on this one.)

Ooops, I should probably have phrased that better (again). I should have asked "Do they know of each other?" (as well as, would they have encountered each other somewhere in Time?) After all the wars, and then occasional bouts of attempts at peace, I would have thought there'd be some meeting up - or at least, known about. Which may have created a rivalry that's been going on for thousands of years. (part of the purpose of this thread...). As well as rivalries within groups.. (Edit: HA! I just thought... perhaps I should have asked, "Who holds the longest grudge?" 😛)

So why not bring in something like Bluntpoint as well, that works on spears? True that, but it also makes them more interesting when you're in a territory that is surrounded by foes who are particularly known to use a particular type of weaponry. So, Softclub is particularly common around Troll lands, and Bluntpoint where Yelmalians hang out (a particularly fun spell for Humakti). Granted, one could always just go the route of saying they're all the same spell, with different names as appropriate to the area or cult that's teaching it, and which affect everything equally... One of the issues in having 1 spell affect all 3 melee damage types is that good old Humakt can't learn it - because they'd never dampen the damage (and maybe not skill either) or a sword-wielder. Having different spells may alter that, so it can affect blunt weapons (such as that of their enemy, ZZ... and their rival, Yelmalio).

I know the Brithini are supposed to be immortal if they follow the teachings (same as dwarfs), but WoD (which I always read as World of Darkness!) says Zzabur is no longer on the material plane, so I don't think that counts. The Agitori... apparently, demi-gods, so not quite what I meant... But good to know. (somewhat disappointing that in the GoG, there are 4 references to these people, and it's a 100% copy and paste for all 4 references 😞 ). Do you have another reference for them? I'm thinking more individuals rather than races that have immortality built in. Even the races would have individuals who are older...

Since one can Heroquest and get effective immortality (or at least, regular resurrection), I'm curious as to who the oldest on the cube is. And how many very old ones there are - and how old that is. Do they all know each other? And why don't they control the machinations of states (the way some have in the past). (I should qualify that last bit - obviously some do still in some places, by why isn't it fairly standard?)

This is a bit confusing - especially the first part. (not that the RQG makes it especially clear). Can you be in Orlanth and not a part of one of the listed sub-cults? Especially if you're female!\ And, if you've initiated into Barntar in one part of the world, as a separate deity in their own right, are you also automatically an initiate of Orlanth in the rest of the world?

If the above responses haven't helped (enough) to clarify, then perhaps consider it from the following perspective: Remove the word 'cult', and replace it with 'entity'. (the word 'cult' merely means 'a group of people have decided to worship an entity'.... and some people will worship anything!) Now, is the entity very big and powerful, perhaps even to the extent of being the personification of an elemental force? If so, then it's a deity (aka, 'god' (leaving aside genders here)). Such deities have stories from the Godtime, and for various reasons, people worship them. Those deities had relationships with other deities... friends, lovers, children, etc. Some of those deities are also worshipped. Some of those friends have their own cults (eg, Yinkin to Orlanth, the various Earth deities, Orlanth and Ernalda). Sometimes a deity will have a story where they are not being typically themselves, and sort of playing (eg, one interpretation of Vinga, or the various aspects of Yelmalio/Elmal/etc). IF they're big enough to have their own direct worship, then they're associated. If they only get worshipped as a friend of the main deity, or when the deity is 'in disguise', then it's a sub-cult - because it makes absolutely no sense to have them worshipped otherwise... well, usually. There's always exceptions, especially when the other stories are completely unknown in a region). Some mortals are heroes. Some heroes apotheosize,. and become gods. Most heroes do so by emulating the deeds of their god, and thus would be a sub-cult . Other heroes do heroic deeds outside of the boundaries of the cult (if they even belonged to one). And so, they'd get worshipped as a deity all on their own (eg, Arkat). Unfortunately, the ambiguity (fickleness?) of the deities means that some of their deeds get lost, or confused with others, or... whatever. And so trying to fit one deity's deeds to fit another's doesn't always nice straight lines... Which, in a world like Glorantha, I find a bit confusing.... surely a simple Divination to ask the question "Hey my god, did you actually do this yourself, or was it someone else?" should sort it out... but, apparently not!) TL;DR (or don't like mansplaining) - ignore the cult aspect, focus on the entity and its place in the universe)

What's the explanation for SIZ? Part of the aspect of the SIZ characteristic is obviously height, but it's very clearly also related to mass.. and mass is definitely something someone can (and do) lose to disease (amongst other ways), and which can be restored over time. (yes, I do get that such a situation tends to not only lose the SIZ, but also the STR and CON). One can certainly have a high STR & CON whilst also having a large SIZ (mass). (and, if at all possible, can we not do the "YGMV" response...???? It effectively means "I'm not giving you an answer/explanation")

I think you don't understand the meaning of the word "unplayable". I completely disagree! Granted, I probably have a different definition for the word 'fun' than you (and, let's face it, that's the central point that needs clarification to this 'argument'). I don't like D&D. And so having auto & instant spells for everyone, with no drawbacks or difficulties annoys me... and I'm writing this because I sense that many people prefer a D&D model for their magic. RQG sorcery is realistic to me (in many ways), whilst retaining the fantasy element (of magic). I like the technical side of the RQG sorcery - including its limitations of Free INT - into a system that can be very powerful. What I also like (and bold because it's a major part of my liking) is that I can have fun coming up with new spells, and the rules are provided to do that! While you can do that with both Spirit and Rune magic, sorcery is where it's at for achieving the impossible - quickly!

I'm confused... these are Rune spells, and at least in theory, wouldn't be subject to any bonuses for components (unless you're houseruling them in).

I don't get this bit - unless it's something like Sense Assassin or Sense Chaos, which are god imbued, and more like a power. A skill is something that someone can teach, so I don't see why it should have any effect on limiting what magic is available. Could you give an example of what you are referring to here?

Personally, I think executioner is the perfect job for a Humakti. if someone warrants the death penalty (rather than exile or working off a debt), then they've done something very serious (kinstrife?). While it's not "honourable", it certainly wouldn't be dishonourable.

Perhaps because they look a lot less like formalised religion, thus allowing for a lot more possibilities (ie, less restrictions) than the big cults. Or is that just me?