Orlanthatemyhamster

Sorry about the thread Necro, saw it while looking for something else, seemed more recent when I perused.

Brilliantly expanded on. Love this!

It does feel like that sometimes, thought. The moving away from slavery in Orlanthi culture (or at least having only 'nice slaves'), the positioning of both Yelmic and Lunar society as evil, Humakt as the 'nice' god of death (the primal god of death at that!), elected kings ( Is there a myth where Orlanth was elected king? I'm sure more knowledgeable people will know.) and others I definitely don't think we should bowdlerise these myths, but encourage players to see the problems and make their own about themselves.

Rock a Lunar Rock! Return To Sartar (address unknown) Love Me Jar Eel (Love Me True) (You're the) Devil in Disguise. On a cold and grey Charg (oh!) morn another sad little trollkin is born, In The Ghetto!* The best example of this is The Fat Cartman's version. The travelling vagabond.

Jeff has been trying to remake Argarth in his own image since Greg died, you only have look at his White Bollocks campaign to see that. If not Glorantha. So that's a conversation ender for me. Sorry to have wasted your time.

The point I was trying to make is that my objection is to the killing of a large number of people for any reason. "I certainty don't believe the Dragonrise was at all intentional enough to even constitute manslaughter, let alone murder, and therefore can't be genocide, because I do believe that the distinguishing element of genocide is the extermination of people, primarily on racial or ethnic background" They were all worshipper of the Red Moon if that helps? Wiki says it's usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial or religious group, a bit of an expansion from my first one, but it just expands on 'ethnic' in the end. I think your huge bias is showing. You really don't think that raising a true dragon, something that's longer than a valley, is not going to kill a lot of people? Here's a paraphrase I know you will recognise, 'It was called the Dragonkill War not because of what happened to the Dragons, but because of what they did.' Argarth didn't know that something many times the size of Gonn Orta would cause death and mayhem if it rose up? Boy is he stupid then! You can't actually believe that, can you?

Eurmal? Absolutely. ZZ? I really can't remember if he was one of the deities listed in the Companion as vital, I'm not sure he is, lots of deities fought. I know Stormbull is vital and He does a better job.

I must admit I found it difficult to understand what your point was, were you disagreeing with me or agreeing? Your opening sentence was very long, which I found hard to parse. Perhaps we disagree on what is mean by genocide, but let's be clear so that we both are on the right page. Genocide. Noun. The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. I assume you agree? I'll now say what I'm arguing. For me personally, the first clause is what matters, 'The deliberate killing of a large number of people.' The rest, while kind of important is, for want of a better word, semantics. It's not a word I'm comfortable using in such a serious discussion, but it's the best I can think of. If you can think of a better word then feel free to use it on my behalf. No matter how you slice it, that first part always happens in a real war, it's pretty much the definition of a war. Genocide is not the same as war, nor is war the same as genocide, but it doesn't matter, the effects are the same. No running away from it, no fingers in ears and eyes being closed stop it happening. But of course it can. And if Chaosium wants to play around with a nice shiny one where people sign a declaration that they were fully consenting adults when they took part, and it happens where no one who didn't want to gets injured or unhappy or dead, and that the effect of all those people dying has no influence on the people left, that's ok. I don't think it's very honest or truthful but it's their publication. I also disagree with the idea that no official publication has put the PCs in a genocidal occurrence or a near genocidal one. The attack of the Bat In the Red Cow has it front and centre, and is canon, from what I have read very, very, recently. I'd also say that the Dragon Rise was a crime against humanity too, but I'm SURE no Lunars took their family to watch the opening of a new Reaching Moon Temple. [roll eyes] I thought I had made it pretty clear in my last post what my views on RW violence are, but I'll expand further. I've been a pacifist since I was 17, thirty eight years ago, and only once in that time have I hurt someone first, to my dying shame. During that time I have been attacked many times [while trying to help people as a nurse and others times too] had my leg broken, my jaw dislocated, my ear drum burst and been bitten. And I've never done more than try to stop the person harming me in all that time. Making violence cartoony and making war 'heroic', at least all the time, does everybody a disservice, and we're back to D&D Orks. Not because they're Green or automatically Eeeeeevil, but because they're disposable fodder who die in large numbers. Sanitised 'War'. So for me the Sack of Pavis should happen as it's supposedly in the past, the ones in the future? Yeah, if they happen and there will be battles, there should be bad consequences too, what ever side the players are on.

He's forced into it and does it because it's the only way to save his skin. I'll repeat it again Chaos does not = evil, though its emanations into Glorantha are. I'm not saying Eurmal is evil any more than a tiger is. What do Eurmal and ZZ have in common, the Disorder Rune. If that helps.

So Loki was just a hard done by teacher, whose lessons were just misunderstood? I wasn't talking about Chaos=Evil or that's not the whole of it. Pure Chaos doesn't have a sentience, a direction, a will. It's not trying to destroy Glorantha out of spite or malice, it's not Trying to destroy it at all. Telling a ZZ troll he's one step away from Chaos is effectively telling a serial killer they're evil, you won't like the result, but both statements are true.

It's a double bind because they are also an unreliable skills boost, until they get high, and then they kind of become a liability. I also see them as a crutch, crutches are good initially, but you'll never walk properly with one. I had a character, loved him to death, Orlanthi Skirmisher who only wore his sling We had just got the then new character sheets with a HUGE list of traits about 20, 30? I loved it. But in the end I realised I wasn't role playing him, I was dice rolling THEM. I started to ignore them and just picked out the ones that suited him and mostly used them as keywords. Cowardly was the stand out one, when there is only air between you and a sword point you don't do combat, in the end he was a hide and seek combat bunny, but only after loads and loads of play.

Both? Show that [how much detail is up to you] and give the players the opportunity to decide for themselves? Do they help others with the danger they *themselves* might starve? Do they help their allies, hinder or loot? If they don't help, their allies might die or at the least no longer trust them. What should the player who has Hate [Lunars] 100% do? The game gives/encourages people to have these strong passions, but then says, but you have to play 'nice' ! *Added for clarity.

I don't understand, violence is ok as long as it's 'your' kind of violence? Sanitised? Young fit people whacking each other with nice big shiny bronze swords, hot! ? A couple of deaths a session? Loss of limbs but no icky blood? Why are you playing a game with violence in it, if you want to ignore completely the consequences? or the nasty bits? That feels a bit like a modern/fairy tale view, both Disney and a drone strike, it has to be heroic and remote? Are all of the people you fight 'tash twirling villains with gorps up their sleeves? Do they not have spouses, kids, mums and dads, or is that only the people on 'your side'? 'Gross' is one of those words I associate with peoples' sensibilities being offended. Used when someone accidentally farts. Personally I make sure my players know that killing others will have consequences for them and possibly for their loved ones. And that they can/should/will hopefully try another way. Capturing a city will have consequences, and not just pulling down statues and putting out the bunting. Innocents will die in clan feuds. Toning it down massively is just as big a problem as revelling in it, more so perhaps. Like switching off the telly when something terrible happens in another country, for me it's most likely to lead to inaction, You can't do something if you don't know about it. Is roleplaying just about only the things you want to look at? It's not only those who live by the sword who die by it.

'Directly'

I don't see him as growing at all either in character or in plot. He's still the great hero, he's still the narcissistic likeable rogue/sociopath.

I think there was a time when they tried to do something new during the Heroquest years, with the Lunar Handbooks et al, but now they seem to have decided to return to the Sartar=good, Lunars=bad thing with a vengeance. It's a pity because it would have made it stand out from almost every other (major) RPG.

Nothing to do with the campaign you are running of his fervent supporters though?

There has been no indication that trickster is some early warning system, or, "oh he's a nice guy really, you just have to see through his funny ways". Trickster is one step away from being chaotic because he's almost utterly unpredictable, just like ZZ is one step away because he's almost utterly evil.

This ruin is no more, it's an Ex-ruin...

No fun.

The still have the cravings; but their cave capacity increases, they begin to have less shakes, feel less agitated, their well being in general improves and they are less likely to get diseases and broo infestations. A win all round!

No Killing Moon? Also known as the Moon of the Opposing Fate. Moon of the Hare Hsunchen, The Echoing Moon...

There's a book of melancholy devotional poetry by the Aldryami Sylvania Braided Roots.

I heard that Jar eel has an epithet. Because of her beauty she's called, 'Bel' Well it chimed with me...

'I was Born under a Wandering Star.' Mapping the World's Heaven. By Vinmra el Busarian