Joerg Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 Carried over from the Beginner's Box thread: 1 hour ago, lordabdul said: Wooohoo you're citing your references now? Yes, and that's a good indication I should move this away from the thread titled "Beginner's Guide". Well past high time, really. 1 hour ago, lordabdul said: (I'm teasing but I guess most of the time you must be reciting from memory, which is why you don't mention the sources? It's super useful when you do mention them though!) I did create an index to all the Glorantha material available to me at the time in the nineties and kept working on it into the Heroquest 1 era, so if this may come across as slightly encyclopedic, it was at the time. We didn't have any electronic documents back then, "and we had to travel five miles uphill to school, and then eight miles uphill back home..." Most of the deities have too many mentions in the old sources, but this one remains memorable to me as the one opportunity I had to baffle Sandy Petersen with a piece of Gloranthan troll lore. 1 hour ago, lordabdul said: Now that I'm looking into this a bit more, I realise that the many suns of Glorantha don't have the monopoly on confusing multitudes... So for instance, there's also a whole bunch of moon goddesses. Yes. They usually sported distinct celestial bodies, except for the Storm Age Blue Moon which was somewhat overcrouded. The Artmali disembarked, but Lesilla went down with most of it like a good ship's captain, while Annilla held those mystical energies aloft until she followed Lorion down Magasta's Pool. 1 hour ago, lordabdul said: The "blue moon" is just one aspect of the moon in general -- we mostly know the moon as "Sedenya" just because that's how she was reborn in Time and that's how the Lunars call her now (mainly), but she had a whole bunch of names and faces before that. Also celestial bodies. I have seen a mention of Artia as a moon in some obscure document, which led me to the question "What makes a celestial body a moon?" Neither the RQ Daily nor the Lore Auction at Convulsion 1994 really resulted in a definitive answer. One thing they seem to hold in common is female or indeterminate sex,, though. (But then, for all the stories about Yelm's marriage contest, and his sons by Dendara or other goddesses and demi-goddesses,Yelm itself remains an asexual orb in the sky, remote from carnal interaction, and probably incapable of any. Kargzant, on the other hand is a stallion, and presumably hung like one, too.) 1 hour ago, lordabdul said: Ok, sure. But strangely enough, GtG (p648) doesn't list "Lesilla" as a name for the blue moon, even though that's the name GS (p147) uses when they talk about that time Dara Happan Emperor Lukarius shot her down from the sky and she crashed onto her own city of Mernita (he was pissed that they were worshipping something else than the proper sun god... that's how the Blue Moon Plateau was formed). That's one story from Dara Happa. Plentonius himself provides a much bowdlerized "imperial justice" version in his account of Lukarius' reign, though.. (GRoY p.24) Quote Their erratic sun, flailing and sputtering, was dragged from the sky by the Justice of the gods. Sedenya crashed from the sky upon her own worshippers, destroying their city entirely. When he lets Lukarius string his bow with his own umbilical, what he shoots down are boarders from the Styx ships (Kogag's boat trolls fleeing from Yelm Bijiif?). Other myths tell about the Storm Gods having a ball game with the blue moon. Sounds like the Blue Moon plateau is where one of them produced a touchdown that destroyed the ball. The Zaranistangi of Melib claim descent from Emilla, "a female incarnation of Mastakos" (duh, Sea Tribe, what would you expect?) (Guide p.433, and yes, when I give page numbers I usually look that stuff up.) But then, the Dara Happans think that that planet is female Uleria anyway, so even less of a surprise, except that she let her children crall all over her body. How much moon/Sedenya is there in Orlanth's charioteer? Is Jagrekriand smashing his chariot on the LBQ just ongoing sibling rivalry between the Red Planet and Blue Moon twins? 1 hour ago, lordabdul said: The Dara Happans then figured the place was inhabited by the "demon" Annilla (GtG p346) so I guess everything is a matter of perspective... but from GtG (p674) it seems that, when Mernita was a thing, Lesilla/Annilla was called Verithurusa, and is more described like some kind of land goddess? (in GtG p95 she is "lord of the North"). Glorious ReAscent makes it even worse. Jernedeus is toted as another name of Verithurus, and Jernedeus is the orb in the sky (or above the ziggurat) guardian deity of Mernita while Lesilla is the nurturing goddess. A key lunar power is Madness, and at tumes like this it shows. Which may be insightful of Plentonius, or a weird relocation from Mount Jernotius, or Old Plentonius fusing those traditions into a single story. His master's family wyter Khor is named as one of the earlier names of Sedenya. ("It's so dreamy, times are fleeting, Madness takes its toll"...) 1 hour ago, lordabdul said: And to add more confusion, Verithurusa is listed as one of the 7 moon goddesses of the Lunars, which also lists Lesilla. Is it me or does it look like the Lunars effectively appropriated a bunch of goddesses from previous cultures, declared those goddesses as different faces of the same moon goddess, and that's how they got more people to join their ranks? 100% correct. And totally wrong. The Lunar Empire employs two aspects of the Blue Moon goddess in its magical ranks - the Assassins, and the Blue Moon School. Neither are subject to the phases of the Red Moon. There doesn't seem to be an dependence on the tides, though, either. Then there are the six classes of the Lunar College of Magic, which have become associated with the phases of the Red Moon, and certainly are subject to its cycles. 1 hour ago, lordabdul said: But wouldn't that have been a problem since Lesilla/Anilla/Verithurusa worshippers and Dara Happan people hate each other? Dara Happan peoples hate each other. Nothing new in that. Three of the four rebels in Jar-eel's presentation of the slaying of Yelm are Dara Happan entities - Verithurusa, Tolat Shargash, and (Artia?) the Bat. 1 hour ago, lordabdul said: Yet they must have fought together against the Carmelians, unless my timeline is wrong? (maybe the Lunars are just that good at negotiation?) The Carmanians were the oppressive emperors of the day. The metropolises of riverine Dara Happa supported them while they were stron, then rebelled when it was clear the Carmanians were seriously challenged by this new power. Nothing new under the sun, happened before, happened again under Jannisor and Sheng Seleris, and will in all likelihood repeat under Sheng Seleris. 1 Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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