d00lite?

[g33k]

I suddenly realized that we don't see much of this mechanic discussed here.

It's clearly a variant of BRP -- skillcentric, roll-under d100 with "classic" D&D-esque stats -- though it has its own quirks and is IMHO one of the more-varied variants.

Is there any sort of "bad blood" or other "history" on this?  Or is it simply a matter of being variant-enough to have less crossover potential with other BRP games, and hence less interest here?  Or ... ?

[Richard S.]

I don't think I've even heard of it. What all makes it unique from the two other big D100 systems (BRP & Warhammer)?

[Qizilbashwoman]

15 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

I don't think I've even heard of it. What all makes it unique from the two other big D100 systems (BRP & Warhammer)?

it's proprietary to DWD Studios, I discovered. I haven't found any raw rules anywhere; it seems to be present only in their two current games, BareBones Fantasy and FrontierSpace.

RPGgeek says:

Quote

The d00Lite system is a percentile based system. There are two types of die rolls called in this game: Percentile/d100 based rolls (where success is based on rolling under the target percentage) or standard “D” rolls (rolling a number of d10’s and adding the results.) Task resolution is percentile based; the D rolls are usually for stuff like damage, healing, generating stats etc.

An interesting take that makes this system stand out from other percentile systems I’ve played: 00 is counted as Zero, and is the best roll to make. 0-5 always succeed, 95-99 always fails. Also different is the Critical Success/Failure mechanic: while the extreme ends are automatic success/failures, a Critical is determined whenever doubles are rolled.

The games are really cheap on DriveThruRPG.com I guess.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[g33k]

2 hours ago, Richard S. said:

I don't think I've even heard of it. What all makes it unique from the two other big D100 systems (BRP & Warhammer)?

I don't think "unique" is the apt term for a d100 roll-under skills-not-classes system.    😁    Not identical to the others, but hardly "unique!"

As per the review quoted above:  "00" is a low (zero) roll, not high (hundred)... so 0-99 is the range.  This fixes some asymmetrical crit-vs-fumble odds when "doubles" marks crit/fumble.

Skills are very limited, simplifying the game further.

"Simple" (aka "lite") seems to be a primary goal; I think this is where it differentiates itself.  I'm unclear how much "simpler" it is than, FrEx, OpenQuest.

I can't really answer very many questions about it because... well, I just don't know the game (hence my starting this thread!)

 

2 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

it's proprietary to DWD Studios, I discovered. I haven't found any raw rules anywhere; it seems to be present only in their two current games, BareBones Fantasy and FrontierSpace.

They also have a "Covert Ops" game.

FrontierSpace is (I think) their first game, and (I'm pretty sure) is very much based on the old (early 80s) TSR game Star Frontiers... 

I'm unsure, but Covert Ops may also be very much aimed at an old TSR game,  Top Secret...  And that puts BareBones Fantasy as a OSR/D&D entry...  😉

All running d00lite.

[Lloyd Dupont]

You got me curious, can you elaborate on the system?

I see one has to read at least 2 books (player and GM)! Lots of reading! 😕 

I ask because I am chronically unsatisfied, haha I went from Classic Fantasy to Mythras to BRP to Revolution D100. And now  wonder if this one will (also) bring some interesting new ideas to the table!  

(my players joke about that, hahah, the latest joke being "now we are playing D&D" to which I of course reply "never!!!    ")

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Lloyd Dupont

[g33k]

18 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

You got me curious, can you elaborate on the system?

...

I can't really elaborate, no:  I don't know the system; hence, my curiosity,...and this thread!

There's some decent reviews if you Google 'round.  Publisher DwD has their own forum, but it's pretty slow; last time I looked, it was over a week since the last post.  Still, it seems to be open to browse without registering, and there is SOME action... if you register & post there, you may get a flurry of "fresh meat!" activity....

I've realized there is no "perfect" or even "best" RPG... not even for the singular target of my own tastes!  Sometimes I want a deeply crunchy mechanical system that I can engage with technically, find optimal methods, etc.  Sometimes I want a lightweight minimum that will just get out of the way of the story, dammit.

It seems possible to me that d00lite may indeed contribute usefully to my own private toolbox of games & BRPfamily mechanical widgetry....  hence, this thread.   😁

[Atgxtg]

33 minutes ago, g33k said:

I've realized there is no "perfect" or even "best" RPG... not even for the singular target of my own tastes!  Sometimes I want a deeply crunchy mechanical system that I can engage with technically, find optimal methods, etc.  Sometimes I want a lightweight minimum that will just get out of the way of the story, dammit.

All too true. Game systems are like toolkits, and which one to use depends on what you are trying to accomplish. It's less about which one is the best, and more about which one is best suited for a particular application. 

[yojimbo]

The d00Lite system is derived from TSR’s Star Frontiers. The author used to produce the Star Frontiersman fanzine before he got into games design.

It’s a streamlined variant of the SF system. It’s sort of a halfway stage between class based games like D&D and skill based games like BRP. There are only 9 skills in Barebones Fantasy such as Cleric, Spellcaster, Thief, and Warrior. Each skill provides you with a set of abilities, e.g Thief provides deception, security systems, sleight of hand and stealth. Your chance of success in any of these abilities is determined by your half your base characteristic score such as Dex (each characteristic is in the range 35-80) plus a bonus of 10 per skill level (skills have levels from 1-6). This gives a percentile score to roll under.

Each d00Lite game is rules light. There are 3 games so far: Barebones Fantasy (standard D&D style fantasy), Covert Ops (spy fiction), and Frontier Space (Sci-Fi, heavily inspired by Star Frontiers).

[g33k]

17 hours ago, yojimbo said:

The d00Lite system is derived from TSR’s Star Frontiers. The author used to produce the Star Frontiersman fanzine before he got into games design.

It’s a streamlined variant of the SF system. It’s sort of a halfway stage between class based games like D&D and skill based games like BRP. There are only 9 skills in Barebones Fantasy such as Cleric, Spellcaster, Thief, and Warrior. Each skill provides you with a set of abilities, e.g Thief provides deception, security systems, sleight of hand and stealth. Your chance of success in any of these abilities is determined by your half your base characteristic score such as Dex (each characteristic is in the range 35-80) plus a bonus of 10 per skill level (skills have levels from 1-6). This gives a percentile score to roll under.

Each d00Lite game is rules light. There are 3 games so far: Barebones Fantasy (standard D&D style fantasy), Covert Ops (spy fiction), and Frontier Space (Sci-Fi, heavily inspired by Star Frontiers).

TYVM!

Have you played with the system, sufficient for us curious BRP heathenry to pick your brains?  Braaaaiiiinz.... must have your braaaaiiiinz.... maybe we're not heathens, but BRP zombies?  <looks nervously over shoulder for modClerics>.   Anyhow, moving on...

I usually call this kind of subsystem "professions as skills."

Are the abilities strictly linked, e.g.  "Thief" = "deception + security systems + sleight of hand + stealth" and nothing else such as (for example) "evaluate treasure" or other ways to spot fake gems/etc, know what's WORTH stealing (when you've got 2 seconds to grab ONE item from a trove and sleight-of-hand it into hiding); or "streetwise" info about where are the best hidey-holes, which guards are most bribe'able, which gang's are the most violent/territorial; etc etc etc?  Or is "Thief" more along the lines of "everything it makes sense for a thief to be good at"?  Can you take any of these Skills in any combo's, in a semi-multiclassing manner?  Is there any particular reason -- known bugs, etc? -- a campaign should avoid skills going above 6  What happens when an "ability" goes over 100?

What is combat like?  Is combat just another "ability" like in the Skills system, or is combat a separate subsystem?  Are there tactical elements like "flanking"?  Reach/range for things like long weapons vs. short weapons, or differentiated damage such as "piercing" vs "bludgeoning," etc etc etc?  Is it just "bag of HP" damage, or is there a "wounds" system or hit-locations; are there things like being "stunned" (half-ability or can't act for a round, etc)?

What is the magic like?  Is it strictly spell-lists like in D&D or RM?  Or is there more free-ranging results like "spontaneous" magic in Ars Magica, or RQ Sorcery?

I'm sure we'll have LOTS of questions now that we've found a victimolunteer !    😁 

 

[yojimbo]

20 minutes ago, g33k said:

TYVM!

Have you played with the system, sufficient for us curious BRP heathenry to pick your brains?  Braaaaiiiinz.... must have your braaaaiiiinz.... maybe we're not heathens, but BRP zombies?  <looks nervously over shoulder for modClerics>.   Anyhow, moving on...

I usually call this kind of subsystem "professions as skills."

Are the abilities strictly linked, e.g.  "Thief" = "deception + security systems + sleight of hand + stealth" and nothing else such as (for example) "evaluate treasure" or other ways to spot fake gems/etc, know what's WORTH stealing (when you've got 2 seconds to grab ONE item from a trove and sleight-of-hand it into hiding); or "streetwise" info about where are the best hidey-holes, which guards are most bribe'able, which gang's are the most violent/territorial; etc etc etc?  Or is "Thief" more along the lines of "everything it makes sense for a thief to be good at"?  Can you take any of these Skills in any combo's, in a semi-multiclassing manner?  Is there any particular reason -- known bugs, etc? -- a campaign should avoid skills going above 6  What happens when an "ability" goes over 100?

What is combat like?  Is combat just another "ability" like in the Skills system, or is combat a separate subsystem?  Are there tactical elements like "flanking"?  Reach/range for things like long weapons vs. short weapons, or differentiated damage such as "piercing" vs "bludgeoning," etc etc etc?  Is it just "bag of HP" damage, or is there a "wounds" system or hit-locations; are there things like being "stunned" (half-ability or can't act for a round, etc)?

What is the magic like?  Is it strictly spell-lists like in D&D or RM?  Or is there more free-ranging results like "spontaneous" magic in Ars Magica, or RQ Sorcery?

I'm sure we'll have LOTS of questions now that we've found a victimolunteer !    😁 

 

The skill descriptions are brief. Like old-school games you are expected to spot rule like your Thief example. So, my impression is stuff like evaluating treasure would come under the Thief skills.

As for combat there are 2 skills: confusingly called Warrior (melee) and Warrior (ranged) in BBF but called Marksman and Warrior in Frontier Space. Combat is very simple, hit and do damage. It is a HP system. While there are no effects as a result of attacks, there are adverse conditions applied to PCs as a result of spells or monster abilities.

The spellcaster class has a short list of about 20 spells whose effects vary by level. Casting requires a skill check. In addition, spellcasters have Low Wizardry which allows to cast free form minor effects such as creating a light source or starting a fire.

[Jeffrywith1e]

I was just poking around the DwD site looking to see if these games were still alive. I was very fond of the Covert Ops line as a long ago fan of Top Secret/S.I. which the two games share a lot of DNA, I think.

[g33k]

On 12/1/2019 at 4:36 PM, Jeffrywith1e said:

 ... to see if these games were still alive ...

I think they are niche-within-niche:  alive, with a few hardy fans for whom it's their Goldilocks Game; & some occasional ones (who mostly play with Goldilocks GMs); but not "thriving" in any business-y / income-ish sense.

Nobody is making a living, I'd guess; even the main author / publisher probably has this as a passion-project / side-gig.

At least, that's my guess.

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by g33k

[Atgxtg]

19 hours ago, g33k said:

I think they are niche-within-niche:  alive, with a few hardy fans for whom it's their Goldilocks Game; & some occasional ones (who mostly play with Goldilocks GMs; but not "thriving" in any business-y / income-ish sense.

Nobody is making a living, I'd guess; even the main author / publisher probably has this as a passion-project / side-gig.

At least, that's my guess.

 

And that is pretty much the bane of being an RPG designer. It's usually the company that publishes the game that makes any real money. For authors it usually works out to less than a minimum wage job.  The authors get so many cents per word  for the game. The company isn't guaranteed to turn a profit either.

Also, a "dead" RPG that a GM or group prefer to  a living one still "works". There are no real drawbacks to running a 10 or 30 year old RPG that you like, and have run. Yes there are not any more supplements for it, and no more adventures, but such a GM is well used to writing adventures for their group, and/or adapting ideas and adventures to their  preferred game system. There really is no need for a GM or player to buy new stuff.

That was one of the reasons for the RPG company crash awhile back. Everyone tried to jump onto the CCG bandwagon, because collectible cards meant that all the players would continually buy more cards to stay competitive., as opposed to a RPG where not everybody will but the books.

[g33k]

45 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

And that is pretty much the bane of being an RPG designer. It's usually the company that publishes the game that makes any real money. For authors it usually works out to less than a minimum wage job.  The authors get so many cents per word  for the game. The company isn't guaranteed to turn a profit either ...

I believe (but do not know for a fact) that this is one of those old-school "small publishers" of gaming -- the author/designer IS the company; a sole proprietor.  What he makes from gaming books, the company makes; and vice versa.  I don't know if he hires any freelancers, nor do I know that he does not.

 

 

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

... Also, a "dead" RPG that a GM or group prefer to  a living one still "works". There are no real drawbacks to running a 10 or 30 year old RPG that you like, and have run./. There really is no need for a GM or player to buy new stuff...

Some players really want to get the ruebooks, so anything utterly out-of-print becomes a barrier; and if it's rare and/or expensive on the used market, a prohibitive barrier.  If it can't be readily and reasonably had on Amazon, some won't even consider it.

 

Me?  I'm with you -- if it's on my shelves and I want to run it, I'm good!  But if my players want copies of some of that older stuff (and some of them do) it can be a problem.  Some of the older books aren't really very sturdy these days, to be loaned-out by turns so everyone gets a shot, passed around as the sole table-reference, etc ...

 

[Lloyd Dupont]

Yeah, like Revolution D100 which I started recently... there is lot of free (and legal! 😮 ) PDF available.. but I really wanted the book! PDF is far from ideal in game for me....  

Fortunately they have a gorgeous print edition!  
Bought 5 of them  hahah!  (for me and players)

Edited December 2, 2019 by Lloyd Dupont

[Atgxtg]

56 minutes ago, g33k said:

I believe (but do not know for a fact) that this is one of those old-school "small publishers" of gaming -- the author/designer IS the company; a sole proprietor.  What he makes from gaming books, the company makes; and vice versa.  I don't know if he hires any freelancers, nor do I know that he does not.

That used to be the case in the old days, before some RPG companies got big, TSR eventually had a staff, and were able to afford quality art too. With Chaosium,  Steve Perrin wrote most of the rule books in the 70s and 80s, but didn't own the company. I think these days most companies can and do hire people and buy art, although thanks to PDFs and print of demand, the smaller indie companies are making a comeback.

 

45 minutes ago, g33k said:

Some players really want to get the ruebooks, so anything utterly out-of-print becomes a barrier; and if it's rare and/or expensive on the used market, a prohibitive barrier.  If it can't be readily and reasonably had on Amazon, some won't even consider it.Me?  I'm with you -- if it's on my shelves and I want to run it, I'm good!  But if my players want copies of some of that older stuff (and some of them do) it can be a problem.  Some of the older books aren't really very sturdy these days, to be loaned-out by turns so everyone gets a shot, passed around as the sole table-reference, etc ...

Yes, although with most RPGs it is usually only one or two players at the table, at most. D&D is different. The existence of special class, race, and other splatbooks, get players interested in buying the  books so they can take advantage of any special rules, prestige classes, feats, magic items,, etc. to maximize their characters. Much like with CCGs they are buying product to chase bonuses.

[Lloyd Dupont]

 

10 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes, although with most RPGs it is usually only one or two players at the table, at most. D&D is different. The existence of special class, race, and other splatbooks, get players interested in buying the  books so they can take advantage of any special rules, prestige classes, feats, magic items,, etc. to maximize their characters. Much like with CCGs they are buying product to chase bonuses.

It feels like you are saying that the D&D ruleset is very conducive to proliferation of material and .. sort of micro transaction as video gamer would call it...
Which is usually a good way to farm money (in the real world, for the publisher)

I think you might have a point. Which is an unexpected way (to me!) to explain D&D dominance...

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

It feels like you are saying that the D&D ruleset is very conducive to proliferation of material and .. sort of micro transaction as video gamer would call it...

Yes I am, although it is not the only RPG to do so. A lot of RPGs do thwe same thing. Notice how many RPGs subdivide the PCs by clan, tribe, homeland, etc.  and then do customized books for each of those groups. World of Darkness is another good example, but there are many more examples. 

Note that I'm  not saying every such subdivision is a deliberate attempt to raise sales and profits by spreading content over multiple books, only that many such supplements lend themselves towards that.

 

1 hour ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Which is usually a good way to farm money (in the real world, for the publisher)

Yes, providing that the supplements are good enough to sustain the game. 

 

1 hour ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I think you might have a point. Which is an unexpected way (to me!) to explain D&D dominance...

With D&D there were other factors. It was the first major RPG released and had been #1 in the early days, and many RPGs were really just knock offs of D&D. TSR clamped down on that, but it started to backfire when AD&D started to slip in popularity. The 3.0 OGL pretty much allowed D&D to regain dominance by making it very attractive for third party publishers to write for D&D instead out creating their own  game system. It worked too, and virtually everybody published a D&D supplement or two, thanks to the larger market share of D&D over their  own game systems. 

In the end is worked but backfired when WotC tried to eliminate the competition with the release of 4E, which was not OGL. But many fans didn't like 4E and so Pathfinder came about, basically a revised version of  3E.

 

There are other reasons too, including  how much money can be spent to promote the game, and get it into local book stores. So any new gamer is far more likely to be exposed to D&D and start with it, as opposed to most other RPGs. 

[TheChaosGrenade]

Hey folks, I just stumbled upon this forum/thread today while looking for more info on BRP OGL. I'm not part of DwD but I'm a huge fan and have worked with Bill Logan in the past, and I'm currently working on a d00Lite game of my own. Thought I'd share/confirm a couple things:

* DwD is essentially a one-man primary  label these days, and Bill is a pretty busy dude. But Frontier Space (their latest game) was a culmination of YEARS of work, time and money invested into it. 

* Publishing order was BareBones Fantasy, Covert Ops and then Frontier Space. They started simple and then evolved the system.

* The system is a pretty straightforward percentile system. Something to note is that every game does things it's own way -- it's not a "universal" system and each game caters to its genre or style slightly differently.

* It does lean into tactical play, as everything is measured in spaces (like on a grid) and there's guidelines for flanking etc. But it works Theater of the Mind as well.

* DwD Community is somewhat active on MeWe -- come say hi!

* The system is licensed creative commons non-commercial, but DwD has been cool about giving folks permission to publish 3rd Party.

* There is an "Art of Wuxia" d00Lite game late in development right now.

Myself, I'm back to work on "Sigil & Shadow" which is modern occult fantasy.

Hope this sheds some more light for any folks interested!