Distraction Spell / resistance roll?

[SteveMND]

So, a rules question here. Under Resisting Spells (RQG p244) 'A target always resists a spell unless that target voluntarily and knowingly accepts the spell. To find out if a spell was successfully cast against a resisting target, compare on the resistance table the caster’s POW vs. the target’s POW' and indeed, almost every spirit magic spell etc., mentions that same resistance roll in the description.

That said, I noticed that the spell Distraction explicitly does not mention that text in its description, and the way its worded implies that there isn't a roll needed to swap targets -- it just swaps the victim's target, which then becomes you next time around.  I checked to see if there was any eratta or clarification on that spell, but did not find any.  Anyone know if this one is an exception to 'default' rules listed above about having to do a resistance roll for an unwilling target (and if possible link me to wherever that ruling/etc. was made, if it was erratta, etc.)?  Thanks in advance!

[ChrisJ]

Since the spell "Thunderbolt" includes an explicit "without needing to overcome the target's POW" statement and this spell does not - I would rule that a POW vrs POW is needed for this spell - but YGMV.

CJ

[Akhôrahil]

Huh. Does this mean that you have to roll POW against POW to heal an unconscious target?

Edited March 2, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Bill the barbarian]

30 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Huh. Does this mean that you have to roll POW against POW to heal an unconscious victim?

I actually seem to recall this being the case in the old days. Surprised me then as well. Kind of like casting heal on a countermagiced individual needing to overcome the countermagic.

[Akhôrahil]

3 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I actually seem to recall this being the case in the old days. Surprised me then as well. Kind of like casting heal on a countermagiced individual needing to overcome the countermagic.

This is murder in the Ars Magica RPG, where wizards have exceptionally good magical defences and you want to heal an unconscious one...

[Psullie]

49 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Huh. Does this mean that you have to roll POW against POW to heal an unconscious victim?

YGMY but I play that an unconscious individual cannot resist, just like they cannot dodge or parry.

[PhilHibbs]

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Huh. Does this mean that you have to roll POW against POW to heal an unconscious target?

By the book, yes, but I've never seen anyone run it that way.

[Akhôrahil]

49 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

By the book, yes, but I've never seen anyone run it that way.

That’s why I asked in the Rules thread - the rules are explicit and unambiguous, but very surprising. I’m not at all sure that this effect was intentional.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[gochie]

On 3/2/2020 at 3:14 PM, Psullie said:

YGMY but I play that an unconscious individual cannot resist, just like they cannot dodge or parry.

This makes the most sense imo. You can't actively resist anything when you're unconscious.

You're at anyone's mercy, much like a bound spirit 😉. 

[Akhôrahil]

On 3/2/2020 at 7:34 PM, SteveMND said:

So, a rules question here. Under Resisting Spells (RQG p244) 'A target always resists a spell unless that target voluntarily and knowingly accepts the spell. To find out if a spell was successfully cast against a resisting target, compare on the resistance table the caster’s POW vs. the target’s POW' and indeed, almost every spirit magic spell etc., mentions that same resistance roll in the description.

That said, I noticed that the spell Distraction explicitly does not mention that text in its description, and the way its worded implies that there isn't a roll needed to swap targets -- it just swaps the victim's target, which then becomes you next time around.  I checked to see if there was any eratta or clarification on that spell, but did not find any.  Anyone know if this one is an exception to 'default' rules listed above about having to do a resistance roll for an unwilling target (and if possible link me to wherever that ruling/etc. was made, if it was erratta, etc.)?  Thanks in advance!

It's super confusing that some spells call for a POW vs. POW roll while others don't, but the overarching rule is "POW vs. POW unless deliberately not resisted". Only spells which explicitly make an exception don't get POW vs. POW. 

[Akhôrahil]

51 minutes ago, gochie said:

This makes the most sense imo. You can't actively resist anything when you're unconscious.

However, the rule is written as requiring active consent, and that's something you can emphatically not grant while you're unconscious.

It's not crazy to run it that way though, especially for healing spells. If there is no possible downside to a spell, perhaps allow it automatically?

Edited March 6, 2020 by Akhôrahil