Stall speed for a Hippogriff?

[d(sqrt(-1))]

36 m/s climb rate seems high, especially if carrying a rider. Also how does the rider feel about being on the back of a winged Stuka? Hippogriffs have a MOV of 12, so 36m/round if they do nothing else, but climbing I'd expect maybe half that at a maximum.

Not quite sure why falling damage is used - after all the Hippogriff has got to pull out of its stoop, so it's not coming in at full speed to do so or hitting the ground in an uncontrolled manner. I can't see it would really get more than a fly-by claw attack, maybe plus a little bit more. 138d6 is...well I don't know what to call it - why don't they just take out the Crimson Bat? They really aren't going to be as fast or manoeuverable as a falcon, even with Air/Sky runes in their heritage just due to mass and wing surface ratio (if you're using the physics that is!). 

Compare it to a Sky Bull Stomp attack of 2d6+4d6

Edited September 25, 2020 by d(sqrt(-1))

[g33k]

5 hours ago, H3nry said:

Like everyone else here, I immediately put Hippogriffs into my campaign. However I was unhappy they didn't include the raptor's most devastating attack: the stoop.

Being a geek, I went the physics route (giving it a terminal velocity) and based the stoop attack on a peregrine falcon. I also threw in some extra rolls and a limitation to make this devastating attack (it does ~500 points of damage) a bit more difficult.

Here's what I came up with:

Stoop     55%    1D6+2D6+"Falling Damage"    1/2R on SR 9

The terminal velocity of a stooping hippogriff is 90M/S, reached in 9.18S after a distance of 413.25M giving a maximum “falling” damage of 138D6. Given the climb rate of a Hippogriff is 36M/S, it takes 1 mêlée round to climb to that distance, so a stoop attack can be done every other round on strike rank 9. If the hippogriff has a rider, to successfully use the stoop attack the rider must make a successful Fly/Ride (Hippogriff) roll and the Hippogriff must make a successful Fly roll, before rolling the stoop attack roll. The damage bonus for a stoop attack with rider should add in the SIZ of the rider when calculated. Lastly, in order to avoid crashing into the ground, a stoop attack can only be used on a target of SIZ 10 or larger.

Many raptors (including peregrines) usually "fist" their prey on a stoop, hitting with a closed talon on a fly-by like a polo-player's mallet reaching down from the pony (rather than a full-on mid-air collision, which is a land-based "charge;" I don't think the cases are similar, or the hippogriff would take that impact from "falling damage," too!).

See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKqt05iR9WI    (particularly 0:56 & 1:18 (fyi -- entire vid is less than 2m long, with irrelevant intro & trailer segments)

Hitting with open talons -- and latching-on -- tends to be when the relative velocities are much closer.

 

For reference, BTW... the 90m/s (cited above as hippogriff terminal velocity) is:

• about TWICE the speed of a fastball in US Baseball
• almost three times the speed of a PK in FIFA soccer

and furthermore:

• the fisted hippogriff-talon will be MUCH larger than a baseball, and MUCH harder than a soccer-ball
• even on a "fly-by" strike, SOME portion of the flier's momentum will transfer through the leg, into the target.

So it's still something akin to a great-troll's war-maul, or even worse. 
 

Edited September 25, 2020 by g33k

[Akhôrahil]

On 9/15/2020 at 8:35 PM, Nozbat said:

I won't ask African or European .. but I will ask if they can carry a coconut?

If they do, they can make those clippety-cloppety sounds.

[Ian Absentia]

18 hours ago, g33k said:

Many raptors (including peregrines) usually "fist" their prey on a stoop...

[...snip...]

So it's still something akin to a great-troll's war-maul, or even worse. 

😲...😵

!i!

[Atgxtg]

On 9/25/2020 at 10:44 AM, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

36 m/s climb rate seems high, especially if carrying a rider. Also how does the rider feel about being on the back of a winged Stuka? Hippogriffs have a MOV of 12, so 36m/round if they do nothing else, but climbing I'd expect maybe half that at a maximum.

The simple solution would be to subtract 10m/second from their MOV  to overcome the force that is pulling them downward. 

On 9/25/2020 at 10:44 AM, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

Not quite sure why falling damage is used - after all the Hippogriff has got to pull out of its stoop, so it's not coming in at full speed to do so or hitting the ground in an uncontrolled manner. I can't see it would really get more than a fly-by claw attack, maybe plus a little bit more. 138d6 is...well I don't know what to call it - why don't they just take out the Crimson Bat?

Yes that's like a bug hitting a windshield causing the car to explode. Plus even if the griff were travelling flat out, it would also have to withstand the impact. 

On 9/25/2020 at 10:44 AM, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

They really aren't going to be as fast or manoeuverable as a falcon, even with Air/Sky runes in their heritage just due to mass and wing surface ratio (if you're using the physics that is!). 

Compare it to a Sky Bull Stomp attack of 2d6+4d6

Exactly. I'd be inclined to just add add some multiple of it's MOV to it's STR for it's damage bonus.