Bleeding

[Lloyd Dupont]

Excerpt from the BGB

"At the end of each round, the target may attempt a Stamina roll to determine if the bleeding stops. If successful, the wound has closed and the target will not suffer any more bleeding damage. If unsuccessful, the bleeding will continue the moment the target’s hand and the pressure is removed from the injury.
The easiest way to stop bleeding damage is to make a successful First Aid check on the injury."

Mmm.. for a healthy adventurer with, say, CON 15, they have 75% of stopping the bleeding.. seems  Stamina roll is the easiest way to stop the bleeding, not aid roll!
Also, compared to damage x2 in the base rule for impale, seems lacklustre.

Did I misunderstood the rule somehow...
I am tempted to allow only 1 Stamina roll, if failed first aid become mandatory....

Edited November 4, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont

[el_octogono]

I agree. One roll should be enough.

[Lloyd Dupont]

After consideration, I just did the following changes:

- 1 luck immediately roll to bleed or not (it's easier to apply bleed with my custom combat rules, so adding this luck roll to see whether it's a bad cut or not)
- 1 endurance roll every 5 minutes / turns to check whether the bleed stops or not

[Atgxtg]

7 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I am tempted to allow only 1 Stamina roll, if failed first aid become mandatory....

No, but I don't think it is that great of a rule to begin with. But then, IMO pretty much everything good in in the BGB was done better in a previous book. I think the BGB's best feature it that it collected together a lot of stuff that had been usd in various other games beforehand, and kinda brought it all back into the spotlight after being gone for over twenty years. But, a lot of what is there doesn't work out all that well when collected together, or with the new rules introduced in the BGB, such as bleeding. It's not like people can't bleed to death from pointed or blunt weapons.

 

Since I know you like to tinker, I'd suggest going with the Stamina roll to avoid the 1 point of blood loss for that 5 minute turn, but requiring a special success to stop bleeding. That way the guy with a 15 CON has a 75% chance of not losing a hit point (so he will bleed out at about 1 hit point per 20 minutes), but only a 15% chance of stopping (so he will probably lose a hit point or two before he does). 

That way First Aid would still be better than relying on a Stamina roll.

 

[Ian Absentia]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

I think the BGB's best feature it that it collected together a lot of stuff that had been usd in various other games beforehand, and kinda brought it all back into the spotlight after being gone for over twenty years. But, a lot of what is there doesn't work out all that well when collected together...

True.  As seen here and there in RQG, rules from different iterations of BRP -- even branching BRP-derived rulesets -- may be generally compatible, but not freely interchangeable without reworking the outcomes.  The rules in the BGB have had significant effort to sand down the joints and fill the gaps to make a seamless collection of rules.  Sometimes the distinct character suffers as a result.

With regard to bleeding, I'm not so sure we should discount the body's ability to control it's own blood loss by limiting the number of Stamina rolls.  I think if a character pauses activity to rest and recuperate, additional rolls should be allowed.  On the move, though, or certainly if in a fight, then opportunities for wounds to staunch should be reduced to next to nil.

!i!

Edited November 4, 2020 by Ian Absentia

[Lloyd Dupont]

Plenty of good ideas in there, thanks yall!

Edited November 5, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont

[Mugen]

Allowing only one Stamina roll means you'd change the meaning of the rule, from a relatively low hit points loss (with Stamina 50%, you'll lose only 2 hit points on average, for instance) to a very probable death.

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Mugen

[Lloyd Dupont]

indeed!
A slow death though.. one you can advert by just pressing your hand on the wound.. (if you were not fighting)...

Also.. impale (in the BGB rule) do double damage! Cutting need some love!

[Atgxtg]

18 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

True.  As seen here and there in RQG, rules from different iterations of BRP -- even branching BRP-derived rulesets -- may be generally compatible, but not freely interchangeable without reworking the outcomes.  The rules in the BGB have had significant effort to sand down the joints and fill the gaps to make a seamless collection of rules.  Sometimes the distinct character suffers as a result.

Exaclty. The BGB takes a lot of things from several differernt games, that were never designed to work together, and attempts to do just that. A tall order, and one made more complicated by the inclduion of alternate and variant rules. It's great as a toolkit for GMs already familiar with the Chaosium family of games, as they can pick and choose what they want for thier particular game, but it doesn't always mesh well. 

I can understand the shift to self contained Games, though, as you kinda have to be very familiar with the various BRP games to get the most out of the BGB, and the book isn't as accessible to new players.

 

It a way the BGB is like a high end custom guitar. In the hands of a master it can outperform a basic instrument, but in the hands of a novice it doesn't sound any better than a $99 beginner's guitar.

 

Quote

With regard to bleeding, I'm not so sure we should discount the body's ability to control it's own blood loss by limiting the number of Stamina rolls.  I think if a character pauses activity to rest and recuperate, additional rolls should be allowed.  On the move, though, or certainly if in a fight, then opportunities for wounds to staunch should be reduced to next to nil.

!i!

I agree. It's why I like a Stamina roll to avoid blood loose for one full turn, and requiring a special success (or first aid) to stabilize. People can (and have) bleed out over the course of hours or even days.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Atgxtg

[Atgxtg]

double post

Edited November 5, 2020 by Atgxtg

[weasel fierce]

My personal take in BRP games is that blood loss kicks in at around 1 HP per minute or so and requires first aid. You will die without help.

If using a CON check of some sort, I'd make the CON check every combat round unless the character is sitting still and clutching their wound. 

Purely personal takes though.

[olskool]

50 minutes ago, weasel fierce said:

My personal take in BRP games is that blood loss kicks in at around 1 HP per minute or so and requires first aid. You will die without help.

If using a CON check of some sort, I'd make the CON check every combat round unless the character is sitting still and clutching their wound. 

Purely personal takes though.

This is exactly how I do it too.  The only real changes I make are using RQ2's Slashes, Impales, and Crushes.

Impales (Spears, Arrows, Firearms, etc...) do = Maximum Damage + Rolled Damage + Damage Bonus.  The weapon may become lodged in the target and a Bleed WILL occur upon removal of the weapon. 

Slashes (Broadswords, Axes, Machetes, etc...) do = Rolled Damage + Rolled Damage + Damage Bonus.  The weapon may become lodged in the target and a Bleed WILL occur upon removal of the weapon.   

Crushes (Maces, Clubs, Hammers, Staves, etc...) do = Maximum Damage + Maximum Damage Bonus + Maximum Damage Bonus.  Treat the damage as DOUBLED for the purpose of target KNOCKDOWN, and the target will also be STUNNED for 1 round + 1 more round for any damage that exceeds target's CON.  A STUNNED opponent can do NOTHING while STUNNED.