Backford Aeolian Campaign

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 5/11/2024 at 3:21 PM, Erol of Backford said:

...

What would the big trade items be from the Heortland Plateau to the Stormwalk Mts. eastern steps?

Metals and metal goods, foodstuffs, wool cloth/clothing?

Trade items?  Consider lumber and wood products from furniture to spearshafts.( the eastern slope of Stormwalk Mountsins is more arid, and lumberjacks won't find proximity to Prax pleasant),  grain and flour, fruit, the manufactured products of Heortland's cities - metalwork, cloth  pottery, alchemical items from potions to perfumes.  

Edited May 16 by Squaredeal Sten
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[jajagappa]

10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

About what year would you speculate he becomes high khan?

1623 when Heortland revolts against Lunar rule.

 

[Erol of Backford]

14 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

lumber and wood products

14 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

alchemical items from potions to perfumes

These items I'll add to the list, for sure, was only thinking agricultural items. I see lots of items to and from Nochet to Backford and on to the east side of the Stormwalk Mts. 

Metal buckles and such for belts, shoulder bags, saddle bags, these would be in high demand as well I assume?

Per some previous info from Jaja, we'll see about formalizing a trade route for goods from Backford to Bullflood and on to Prax being more formalized about 1600. (Yes the trade route is no longer tenable as Gagix becomes more powerful.) 

It would run along the Bullflood more or less, up the river to the Low Temple (Hoof Shrine guessing location is at green square in clip) at the western end of that vale. From Hoof Shrine the trail would lead through the vale between Stormwalk and Founder's Peak and into Prax (see clip below in red).

From there the trail would likely split to run north potentially to the Dundealos Valley and south to Barbarian Town. There may be an opportunity to set up a trading post similar to Apple Lane but similar to the Raus Keep, a more defensible location. I suppose in my Glorantha where Sounder's River meets the other river there is an elevated bluff, a peninsula of sorts?

Where would the wind child aery be on Founders' Peak?

Edited May 12 by Erol of Backford

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Where would the wind child aery be on Founders' Peak?

Founder's Peak is the one directly SE of Stormwalk. The aery is towards the peak along the NE end.

There's also a wind child aery on Whistling Peak which is the mountain directly north of Stormwalk. That one is SE of the actual peak.

Both of those peaks are very steep with no climbable routes. There is a very rough trail in the vale between Founder's Peak and Bullpen Mountain. However, that's also where the wind children deposit the bones of their dead and the spirits are very strong there.

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Low Temple (Hoof Shrine guessing location is at green square in clip)

Correct.

You will find sky bulls on both Stormwalk and Bullpen Mountains. The giant Baskelos and his Hound guard them. 

[Erol of Backford]

38 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Founder's Peak is the one directly SE of Stormwalk.

I assumed it was where the red circle is below.

39 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

There is a very rough trail in the vale between Founder's Peak and Bullpen Mountain.

So the trade route would run between Stormwalk and Founders where I showed it and avoid the valley between Founders and Bull Pen Mountain.

Curious as to Baskelos' stats... how might he be placated and or reasoned with.

[jajagappa]

28 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

I assumed it was where the red circle is below.

The red circle is pretty much the peak, so go with the NE edge of the circle.

28 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

So the trade route would run between Stormwalk and Founders where I showed it and avoid the valley between Founders and Bull Pen Mountain.

Yes, but the Storm Bull shrine will absolutely: 1) demand a toll/tribute to maintain the shrine (including foodstuffs); 2) demand offerings and sacrifices (possibly including MP) to Storm Bull. Only then will they allow your passage.

30 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Curious as to Baskelos' stats... how might he be placated and or reasoned with.

There's a quest for that! 😉 (I.e. it's one of the quests to gain a Sky Bull).

"Baskelos is friendly to wind children, but otherwise suspicious of those passing his hut.  He does not offer the hospitality of his hut, but listens to tales, plays music or games (excluding riddle games), or shares a drink."

Baskelos is an 8 meter tall giant with the torso/upper body of a typical giant and the legs of a bull (SIZ 55). As the son of a mountain mother, he can step from one mountain to another very easily, can draw upon Earthpower (as in the Rune spell), and can summon the Thunder Brothers to his aid.

His Hound is a giant two-headed brown dog with large eyes, pointed ears, and keen noses and was a gift to Baskelos from the Earth goddesses (it's only SIZ 29 though). The Hound is particularly suspicious of felines, griffins, scorpionmen and anything else that might threaten the Sky Bull herds.

If you really want a Sky Bull, you either need to befriend him after following all the right steps of the quest path or get him so drunk that he passes out (and it takes a LOT of drink to get a giant drunk). The advantage of the former is that he may let you try to corral a sky bull without you having to try to get past the Hound (which will only occur if Baskelos has called it off).

 

[Erol of Backford]

20 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Sky Bull

Sartar Companion, P.138 has a description as does Storm Tribe, P238... I thought there was a picture of Baskelos with his dog but I cannot find it... maybe not recalling. I also thought there were HQ steps but cannot locate.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I thought there was a picture of Baskelos with his dog but I cannot find it...

Maybe you're thinking of the giant from the Coming Storm?

[Erol of Backford]

21 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Maybe you're thinking of the giant from the Coming Storm?

Found Baskelos, took a while... and he sure looks more than 8m tall, not a big deal but he's striding over pine trees, maybe in the HQ he is huge or he changes sizes? 

What a beast!

He will surely be up there in the hills in my game, hanging around, maybe visiting Hoof Shrine... with his SIZ 40 dog, so a bit larger than 29 or so it shows in Tales 18.

Curious where the SIZ 29 was posted Jaja?

(Also, sorry I missed you at the convention, when I stopped in everyone was in the auction and the saleroom was just closing... maybe next year!?)

Lastly, had to clip what David Hall & Jon Quaife did in Tales 18, related to Rainbow Mounds and Whiteye, yes off topic but more sheltered in this thread... just love the old stuff. The covers of my 2 copies of Tales 18 are actually still a bit glossy!

 

[jajagappa]

10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

He will surely be up there in the hills in my game, hanging around, maybe visiting Hoof Shrine... with his SIZ 40 dog, so a bit larger than 29 or so it shows in Tales 18.

Tales 18 is not mine, it's a fanzine - it is not something I can use for content development. The figures I noted are from my submitted Heortland material.

 

 

[Erol of Backford]

Did you locate the Nidham monolith Jaja?

[Erol of Backford]

Discussing with Jaja, a trade route over Stormwalk and potentially meeting Baskelos and then reading about him in Tales18 in the Stormwalk Path Hero Quest has me wondering...

If PC's meet a character in Glorantha and knows them, is friendly or fights them as an enemy, even kills them but then meets them on a Hero Quest would both parties not recall the past events and react to each other accordingly?

Lets say a group of PC's somehow befriend Baskelos, likely through bribery or giving assistance running of griffins or bandits, etc. while up in the mountains, would he act kindly toward them if they bump into him in the future on a Hero Quest if they could get him to recognize him, could convince him they were friends?

This would be different if the being they bumped into had not met them current time on the Glorantha Physical Plane and was always only on the Hero Plane.

If Baskelos is killed on the Physical Plane would he still be on the Hero Plane?

As GM you could make Baskelos act whichever way you wish of course. It could be like when Thor meets the Hulk in Thor Ragnarök and even they were friends, Hulk attacks him (not exactly the same but you understand what I am getting at if you saw the movie) they are in another dimension or something like that...

If Baskelos was friendly to them prior to the quest and he is also during the quest could this not be one way a Hero Quest changes the physical world or the Hero Quest path becomes slightly modified, in that Baskelos doesn't straight on attack them?

Of course the PC's fighting a giant is always climatic for me rather than them sitting down for a picnic on the mountainside...

Besides food, beer, some armor or a giant sized sword how does one bribe a giant?

Just curious as to everyone's thoughts.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

If PC's meet a character in Glorantha and knows them, is friendly or fights them as an enemy, even kills them but then meets them on a Hero Quest would both parties not recall the past events and react to each other accordingly?

Generally, if you meet them on a HeroQuest, you won't recognize them as themselves. They'll be in the role of some deity on their own quest. If they are on an Orlanth quest and you're on an Ernalda quest, you'll see each other as Orlanth and Ernalda, or perhaps members of their entourages.

It is feasible that you will later recognize the other character in this world, as being your special HeroQuest foe (as Harmast and Palangio were, or Arkat and Nysalor) based on things you learn that they have done. 

If you happen to kill an enemy, and then go on an Underworld quest, it is feasible you may meet and recognize their ghost there. But in that case, they are a ghost/dead spirit and likely already beginning to forget about their mortal existence. 

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Lets say a group of PC's somehow befriend Baskelos, likely through bribery or giving assistance running of griffins or bandits, etc. while up in the mountains, would he act kindly toward them if they bump into him in the future on a Hero Quest if they could get him to recognize him, could convince him they were friends?

Baskelos exists in this world too. The Sky Bull Quest is a this-world quest to win a sky bull for yourself in this world. However, he probably exists in the Other World as well. You might recognize him, but he'll see you in the Otherworld in the role/mask you've taken for your quest (i.e. he might see you as Orlanth or one of Orlanth's minor winds). He will not remember you then. However, if you've met him and befriended him in the Otherworld, then you might use that to convince him of your friendship in this world.

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Besides food, beer, some armor or a giant sized sword how does one bribe a giant?

Poetry, entertainment (song, dance, juggling, etc), helping him overcome a pest (scorpionmen, Gagarth's band, a plague of bullsitch), challenging him to a wrestling contest or a rock throwing contest, etc.

[Erol of Backford]

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Generally, if you meet them on a HeroQuest, you won't recognize them as themselves.

Ah, yes I recall this now, its like any PC would be wearing a HQ mask.

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

But in that case, they are a ghost/dead spirit and likely already beginning to forget about their mortal existence. 

Most PC's I've gamed with or known have never made it to this point as they were generally not strong enough to go to the Underworld... maybe in the future.

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

However, if you've met him and befriended him in the Otherworld, then you might use that to convince him of your friendship in this world.

Good food for thought. Will use it when thinking on other HQ's.

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

wrestling contest or a rock throwing contest

I suppose if a PC had the strength and or size of a godling in the HQ it might happen. With the rope, if successful the character could throw him off the mountain...

Good stuff Jaja.

Oh, one last thing, was reading about Horned Rock (Tales 18 p.30) being the true beginning of the Stormwalk Path. Assuming it exists in my Glorantha would it be, in your mind, related to or part of the Hoof Shrine or would you have it at the green circle in the clip below?

It seems like it'd be part of Hoof Shrine, if not the centerpiece?

Thanks again.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Most PC's I've gamed with or known have never made it to this point as they were generally not strong enough to go to the Underworld... maybe in the future.

I did take mine there (though was running HQG when I did)! They had to recover the clan's Fertility goddess who had fled there after their Harvest festival was attacked. And they did succeed (and most made it back intact) - definitely most memorable campaign.

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I suppose if a PC had the strength and or size of a godling in the HQ it might happen. With the rope, if successful the character could throw him off the mountain...

Think Wind magic! Knockdown his rock, or hurl yours along! Have to step outside the box with these demigods

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Oh, one last thing, was reading about Horned Rock (Tales 18 p.30) being the true beginning of the Stormwalk Path. Assuming it exists in my Glorantha would it be, in your mind, related to or part of the Hoof Shrine or would you have it at the green circle in the clip below?

It seems like it'd be part of Hoof Shrine, if not the centerpiece?

As I didn't reference Tales, I can't say what the specifics of it are (and don't have handy at the moment).

The Hoof Shrine is the starting point of the Spiral Trail to the top and the beginning of the Stormwalk Path (7 times around, so it's a very long trail and there's only one shortcut early on - and trying to shortcut anywhere else brings the fury of the mountain winds down upon you, as well as other foes, so not good to try. Storm Bull doesn't like it.).

If the Horned Rock is supposed to be at the start, then, yes, make it part of the Hoof Shrine.

Baskelos' Hut is on the eastern face of the mountain on the fourth circle up. Plenty of tests and dangers to pass to get even that far. 

 

 

[Erol of Backford]

On 5/21/2021 at 11:55 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

In all cases, remember that your agimori, orphan or not, cannot support cold (not by education but by nature/rune) so outside Prax, some difficulties for him/her

It took a little over 2 years but the solution for the effects of cold on the Agimor are found in a Hollri Heart. Book of Drastic Resolutions - Darkness p. 53. Natural cold, no matter the extreme will not harm the wearer. Magical cold will still still work normally on the individual.

[Erol of Backford]

Seeing this on the Digest and liking it but I thought we had a good number of sorcery using Aeolians:

Sorcerers are burnt regularly by the Aeolian wizards when they are 
found guilty of abusing the magic. Visitors from God Forgot make sure 
to contact church authorities for protection as soon as they enter 
Hendriki lands.

Would "abusing magic" be spells such as tap or "create vampire"? Also do Aeolians like or dislike Arkati wizards? Maybe they are the ones that are burnt?

The 1300-1350 Map shows Hendriki down to about the Syphon. In the 1450-1570 map the Vandarland and Kitori occupy about the same area but in the 1571-1616 map the Kitori have been replaced by the Volsaxi.

Question: Did the Hendriki simply get pushed north to up near Whitewall as the Vandarland and Gardufar move north or are these subcultures of the Hendriki?

  

 

[Joerg]

1 minute ago, Erol of Backford said:

The 1300-1350 Map shows Hendriki down to about the Syphon.

While the label does indicate something of a spread, it does not claim to cover the entire Hendr(e)iki kingdom, which covered almost everything from Gardufar to the Crossline under King Andrin before Belintar slew him.

Following the return of "Zombie King Andrin", the northern portion seceded under Andrin's former companion Hardard the Green, making the (largely uninhabited) Whitewall the tribal center of the Volsaxi. No idea whether the Colymar, Balmyr and Torkani occupied lands just south of the Crossline for long. Some weird sources still state that the Colymar crossed in 1300, while tribal memories have the mother or grandmother of a tribal king having fought Belintar hand to hand. But maybe she did not migrate with her descendants?

Following Belintar's Victory and the Whitewall rebellion, Belintar granted the Kitori authority in the rebellious north rather than grinding down his governor kings and their forces.

19 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

 In the 1450-1570 map the Vandarland and Kitori occupy about the same area but in the 1571-1616 map the Kitori have been replaced by the Volsaxi.

  

 

The displacement of the Kitori (as the dominant tribe in the region) by the Volsaxi is the consequence of Tarkalor Trollkiller's wars in the valley. There are still Kitori in the region, but fewer, and a lot less dominant.

Tarkalor was acting almost as overlord of Karse (if only as cousin of Jotisan?) when Dormal opened the Seas, extending the royal road and establishing the port in expectation of a massive increase in trade. His son Terasarin harvested what Tarkalor had sowed, as the trade volume through Sartar exploded from oversea trade goods.

The Kitori are not Hendriki, nor have they ever been. They also aren't mentioned in the Foreigner Laws of Aventus, indicating that they did not acknowledge Hendriki authority.

Following the Tax Slaughter, the Shadowlords were severely decimated, reducing the tributes from which the Kitori were living. While Esrolia apparently continued to pay the Shadow Tribute (though not necessarily Arkat's Command), that land has no recorded Kitori presence. (It does have Troll Warrens, though, at least in Nochet, where there is also a Kimantoring tradition whose members wear lead masks nearly (or completely?) identical to the Kitori Shadowlord lead masks.)

IMG, the full Kitorri shape-changing Shadowlords are the magical elite warriors of the Kitori tribe, recruited from both the troll and the human population. While not quite the equivalent of Light Sons of Yelmalio, their Nightcult magics give them huge benefits in their kinds of combat.

1570 marked the end of the Kitori wars that must have started around 1550 (giving the Kitori only about 9 years of a stranglehold on the trade between Sartar and the Holy Country). 1569 saw Tarkalor inheriting the throne of Sartar, able to sign off the grant of Sun Dome County, and connecting and re-opening Whitewall the year later.

We can speculate whether the Volsaxi were centered upon Smithstone prior to Tarkalor's war. Afterwards, the royal seat seems to have returned to Whitewall.

[jajagappa]

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Question: Did the Hendriki simply get pushed north to up near Whitewall as the Vandarland and Gardufar move north or are these subcultures of the Hendriki?

Those are Heortland lands - you'll find standard Heortling culture down to Durengard. The Esvulari are mostly in Esvular and the cities, but Aeolian culture is a blend of Malkioni and Heortling culture (and particularly so during 3 centuries of the God-king's rule).

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

good number of sorcery using Aeolians

There are some 75k Esvulari. There are three castes: noble, wizard-priest (i.e. sorcerers), and commoner. The wizard-priests lead the rites to the Invisible God. Nobles include the leaders of Orlanth and Ernalda, and some of the Lightbringers. Commoners include most warrior cults, farmer cults, etc.

As Jeff has noted before there are about 1500 Aeolian wizard-priests. They are endogamous and come from a small group of closely related families.

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Sorcerers are burnt regularly by the Aeolian wizards when they are 
found guilty of abusing the magic.

This seems to be something out of Tradetalk or other non-canonical source, and really does not square with a culture that integrates sorcery/Invisible God with that of the emanations of the Invisible God (i.e. Orlanth, Ernalda, and the Lightbringers). 

Sorcerers who embrace/deploy chaotic magic (e.g. Tap) will likely be hunted down and destroyed by Storm Bull worshipers. Those who fail to maintain caste vows lose their Rightness and suffer accordingly.

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

The 1300-1350 Map shows Hendriki down to about the Syphon. In the 1450-1570 map the Vandarland and Kitori occupy about the same area but in the 1571-1616 map the Kitori have been replaced by the Volsaxi.

Heortland (or Heortling culture) goes fully down to the Bullflood.

After Belintar's arrival in 1313, some Hendriki move north into Sartar. Belintar eliminates the Heortland King and all tribes, replacing them with a governor (who may have been the former Heortland King, though some now call him Andrin the zombie). The governor has four tributary districts under him: Volsaxiland in the north (dominated initially by the Kitori, but later by the Volsaxi clans), Vandarland, Gardufar, and Esvular. There are no Heortland tribes, just clans - there's no need when Belintar (and his governor) can perform the seasonal Orlanth rituals simultaneously at all temples.

[Joerg]

9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

 

18 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Sorcerers are burnt regularly by the Aeolian wizards when they are 
found guilty of abusing the magic.

This seems to be something out of Tradetalk or other non-canonical source, and really does not square with a culture that integrates sorcery/Invisible God with that of the emanations of the Invisible God (i.e. Orlanth, Ernalda, and the Lightbringers). 

Possibly.

I am fairly certain that my 1994 writings did not figure any Aeolians erecting pyres for opposing sorcerers. I don't recall any of that from David Hall's write-up for How the West Was One, either.

There were others who described the Esvulari, in a variety of ways - Introduction to the Hero Wars had a different take than Thunder Rebels, HQ1 and Men of the Sea seems to have aligned with the Unspoken Word material, there were mailing list or forum (if you regard the Yahoogroups as such) contributions, some of which made it into Tradetalk, and then Greg and Jeff presented local details in History of the Heortling People and Esrolia Land of 10k Godesses, and lately we meet the Aeolians in the sorcery chapter of the core rulebook and in Jeff's design notes from Facebook.

Edited June 2 by Joerg

[RicKaySi]

Latecomer to this monumentally impressive thread - so apologies to anyone if I end up saying something already covered by their previous posts. 

21 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Sorcerers are burnt regularly by the Aeolian wizards when they are 
found guilty of abusing the magic. Visitors from God Forgot make sure 
to contact church authorities for protection as soon as they enter 
Hendriki lands.

If you saw this on the Digest and liked it but can't square it for all the reasons that @jajagappa has already pointed out (it's probably non-canon, comes close to contradicting more recent sources, goes against the syncretistic vibe of the Aeolians) then maybe you could tie these burnings to certain characters or events?

Maybe the Aeolians and Zzaburi came to blows over whether to abandon the teaching of Aeol and be closer to the Malkionism of the Abiding Book? Either Malkioni Abiding Book fundamentalists were coming to Gardufar and Esvular and getting burned for disrespect of Aeol (lynch mob or wizard-duel, both can involve fire so take your pick) or the Aeolians themselves were re-assessing their faith after studying the Abiding Book, and the Reformist-Fundamentalists lost the tussle for power). 

This could still be a contemporary problem. There may be a line of thinking among some Aeolians that wizards who emulate Zzabur are actually misguided and dangerous for not respecting gods (you could make a big deal out of how they refer to themselves as Wizards and not Zzaburi for just this reason). If Aeolians are aware of how traditional Zzaburism treats Orlanth, Ernalda, Uleria, Lodril (basically all the Aeolian God-Saints) with contempt then Aeolian hostility to Zzabur's teachings (and especially his self-importance in those teachings) might make sense.

Even if the time of burnings is over (or on pause) then it would make sense that visiting Malkioni from other castes/cultures still seek protection/hospitality from church-temples, it signals mutual respect and helps travellers avoid getting targeted for harassment by overzealous hardliner Aeolians. Maybe there's a specific gift you get from the churches that visually signals your acceptance by the local church, like woven flowers in the colours of the Aeolian gods on your sorcerer staff?

[Erol of Backford]

So we have a saltwater riverbed.

Dead Sea Clay helps to eliminate toxins and impurities in the skin leaving your skin feeling fresh and clean. It is also great for acne, dark spots, or other skin imperfections; giving you a bright even-toned complexion.

So Backford has a developing spa culture from the clay/mud baths and everyone in the Backford local has nice skin. (+1 Charisma)

Other marine clays are used all around the world for many different uses, such as ceramics, building material, including adobe. Clay layers in soils which can be used as an impermeable layer are very important for dumps or chemical spills as they have a very high absorption capacity for heavy metals.

A lot of the more welltodo steads near Backford have swimming pools... maybe not but they would have a communal bath with both saltwater and fresh water pools. I place several large cisterns catching falls dropping into the Syphon Valley. 

I am trying to get a good feel for the masonry at Backford and along the Plateau in general. There should be lumber available to the south of Jab Hills if not in smaller groves scattered, yes a lot of trees were cleared for farming.

Guessing about 1/3rds on the stone/masonry - wood - adobe depending on age of the structure and the wealth of its builders.

As there are not many dwarves around Backford guessing there is little "poured rock" but why wouldn't there be concrete and when was concrete introduced to Glorantha? Did the dwarves discover it or did they always simply "know" how to make it as its part of their spirit/essence?

Also guessing a good amount of the Heorltland Plateau is limestone, the old map shows sandstone but that likely means limestone and maybe shales up and down from those stratus depending on which way the sea was moving in or out?

Limestone being a good source for making concrete/cement...

Edited June 7 by Erol of Backford

[Joerg]

The Kadeniti - the builder tribe of ancient Danmalastan - created concrete reality, and may have been able to use "poured rock" to the same extent as the Romans did (e.g. with the Pantheon). There are known sources for volcanic exhausts in their neighborhood to parallel the Roman situation with volcanic tuff rock available locally, for their pozzolan cement.

[Erol of Backford]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

"poured rock"

Plastic concrete... add magic to it and they could do anything along the Heortland Plateau.

I assume form-set stone, rock, etc would make almost anything possible.

We do have the City of Wonders.