Historical settings poll

[GianniVacca]

A Minoan supplement would have bare-breasted women on the cover and be historically accurate.

Same with a lot of ancient settings, actually.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Pah! If the Victorians could gloss over all this ancient-world naughtiness, I don't see why Chaosium should get away with lewd cover images. Surgical undergarments for all!

:innocent:

[Byron Alexander]

A surprising amount of support for an Ancient Greek sourcebook... I actually know a fair bit about Ancient Greece.

[Thalaba]

Of the ancient settings, Greece would be the one with the most appeal and probably also the easiest to do. It's the first of the ancient civs that has a body of truly heroic literature, and this can be drawn on for gaming material quite easily. This same literature is also widely known (if misunderstood) today and is inspiring for heroic action, so it's not surprising that it gets the most votes - it's the easiest for people to imagine. Ironically, when someone says 'bronze age' most people think of archaic and later greeks.

Their prolific literature also makes certain aspects of greek culture easy to understand, and would help a great deal in writing it up as a setting, too. Hesiod's 'Theogony', for instance, is a period work which organizes and puts a period perspective on the greek pantheon of gods. Since there is no comparable work on the Hittite gods, for instance, anyone looking back at them from the present is faced with a confusing mess.

[Byron Alexander]

You reckon doing a Pendragon with the Greek epics would work well? If that's what you're saying it's an intriguing proposition.

[Thalaba]

That's not what I was getting at, but that's a pretty creative interpretation of what I thought I said! You must have a big frontal lobe!

It does sound intriguing. I'm not especially familiar with Pendragon (the game), but maybe you could have a go at concretizing the idea and explain it? There is a definite similarity between Homer and Monmouth/Mallory.

[Byron Alexander]

I'm not especially familiar with Pendragon (the game), but maybe you could have a go at concretizing the idea and explain it? There is a definite similarity between Homer and Monmouth/Mallory.

Well, it's a long time since I've played Pendragon and I don't own it so bear with me if I get anything wrong/misremember. However, Pendragon is a game about King Arthur and the mythology surrounding him which also does its level best to be as historically accurate as possible (including being relatively low-magic). It also allows for generational-playing, you can play the sire of a lineage of knights and then his children and grandchildren. Lineage is, of course, important to Greek myth.

As you say, there are parallels with Homer and Monmouth - both wrote a history that had a basis in fact but was heavily altered and influenced by myth. Both Arthurian and Greek myth centre on the actions of heroes.

It would be the work of at least a year, maybe two, but a game could be written that is as historically accurate to the heroic age of Ancient Greece as it can be while also including the magical and mythological elements of it. It would also be a good setting to play generationally just as Pendragon can be played.

EDIT : As for having a big frontal lobe, I'm actually just insane.

[cjbowser]

However, Pendragon is a game about King Arthur and the mythology surrounding him which also does its level best to be as historically accurate as possible (including being relatively low-magic). It also allows for generational-playing, you can play the sire of a lineage of knights and then his children and grandchildren. Lineage is, of course, important to Greek myth.

I wouldn't quite classify Pendragon as historically accurate as much as I'd classify it as thematically accurate. When you play Pendragon, you feel like you're playing in the legends surrounding Arthur. You don't necessarily feel like you're in 5th century Logres per se. I think that's the same feel that should be attempted with a Heroic Age Greece game. It's less about staying true to an Ancient Greek timeline and more about staying true to Homer or Hesiod.

Another useful Pendragon tool is the Passions and Loyalty. Characters in Pendragon are as much defined by their Passions and Beliefs as they are by their physical stats. That would carry over very nicely to a Mythic Greek setting. You have Achilles' consuming rage that laid waist to the Achaeans, Icarus' unbound hubris, Hector's loyalty to Troy. All those things could be nicely replicated in Pendragon (or Heroquest.)

[Byron Alexander]

I'd completely forgotten about that; you're right, that would work well in a Homeric setting! I now charge you with writing it.

(See how I passed the buck there?)

[Thalaba]

I wouldn't quite classify Pendragon as historically accurate as much as I'd classify it as thematically accurate. When you play Pendragon, you feel like you're playing in the legends surrounding Arthur. You don't necessarily feel like you're in 5th century Logres per se. I think that's the same feel that should be attempted with a Heroic Age Greece game. It's less about staying true to an Ancient Greek timeline and more about staying true to Homer or Hesiod.

Quite right - Pendragon is based on the medieval mythical tales of Arthur, not the historical figure (who's existence is still hotly debated). Same is true for Homer writing supposed ancient greek history.

Another useful Pendragon tool is the Passions and Loyalty. Characters in Pendragon are as much defined by their Passions and Beliefs as they are by their physical stats. That would carry over very nicely to a Mythic Greek setting. You have Achilles' consuming rage that laid waist to the Achaeans, Icarus' unbound hubris, Hector's loyalty to Troy. All those things could be nicely replicated in Pendragon (or Heroquest.)

It sounds very intriguing - I guess the question is can it be (should it be?) replicated with BRP?

By the way - I'd love to see a 5th-6thC. authentic Arthurian Britain done up, with characters romping around in post roman Powis, Dumnonia, Rheged, Strathclyde, Gododdin, etc. Usually, what work I've seen on the period looks at it from a Saxon perspective - not a Brythonic one.

I'd completely forgotten about that; you're right, that would work well in a Homeric setting! I now charge you with writing it.

(See how I passed the buck there?)

I thought YOU wanted to be a writer - why are you passing the buck?

Edited February 23, 2010 by Thalaba

[SDLeary]

Passions, if you want to use them, can easily be imported. The other part of the equation is the Personality Traits, which are already in BRP (p.294). I would not use those trait pairs, as they were originally envisioned for NPC development; just import the ones from Pendragon wholesale. Oh, and if anyone cares, take note that Greg has decided to change one of the pairs. Pious/Worldly is becoming Otherworldy/Worldly. Pious becomes a passion (Loyalty: God).

As for an Arthurian Britain setting... you'd have to choose from the various historical/literary bents on the subject.

SDLeary

[cjbowser]

Passions, if you want to use them, can easily be imported. The other part of the equation is the Personality Traits, which are already in BRP (p.294). I would not use those trait pairs, as they were originally envisioned for NPC development; just import the ones from Pendragon wholesale. Oh, and if anyone cares, take note that Greg has decided to change one of the pairs. Pious/Worldly is becoming Otherworldy/Worldly. Pious becomes a passion (Loyalty: God).

As for an Arthurian Britain setting... you'd have to choose from the various historical/literary bents on the subject.

SDLeary

Like SD says, the necessary pieces for Passions and Traits are already in the BRP book. I'd probably change the Passions to seem "more Heroic Age Greek," but other than that, they're ready to go.

I think BRP, at an epic level could handle Heroic Age Greece. I've thought about turning the Odyssey into a scenario in the past, but have never got around to it.

[Bygoneyrs]

Well I would love to see both Vikings/Norse and Ancient Celts as my two choices!

Penn

[Byron Alexander]

I thought YOU wanted to be a writer - why are you passing the buck?

Honestly, I think this would be an awesome project for either a BRP monograph or even a Pendragon-scale seperate game. However, it would be a BIG project (bigger than Witchcraft by far) and at the moment I have two jobs and several projects on the go, I simply can't do everything.

[Thalaba]

Not enough time in the day?

Sing it, brother...

[Atgxtg]

Passions, if you want to use them, can easily be imported. The other part of the equation is the Personality Traits, which are already in BRP (p.294). I would not use those trait pairs, as they were originally envisioned for NPC development; just import the ones from Pendragon wholesale. Oh, and if anyone cares, take note that Greg has decided to change one of the pairs. Pious/Worldly is becoming Otherworldy/Worldly. Pious becomes a passion (Loyalty: God).

As for an Arthurian Britain setting... you'd have to choose from the various historical/literary bents on the subject.

SDLeary

I think it is Love (God) not that there is any functional difference between that and Loyalty (God).

[Mugen]

I voted Renaissance Europe, with Italia in mind.

I'd be very excited by a game about power struggles between noble houses and between cities.

I'd also like a game about Dark Ages, either Brittanic or Continental.

[GianniVacca]

I voted Renaissance Europe, with Italia in mind.

I'd be very excited by a game about power struggles between noble houses and between cities.

And rules for poisoning and alchemy :-)