Daka Fal and Grandfather Mortal

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Jokum said:

So how is it that Daka Fal is hostile to most cults in Orlanth pantheon but not Yelm or Seven mothers? (Cult compatibility RQ p.310-311) Even Yelm is not so hostile towards orlanthi.

Yelm died.  The Seven Mothers did.  The lightbringers being stuck-up Gods did not.  Ergo Daka Fal hates them.  

1 hour ago, Jokum said:

For some reason other cults are not so hostile against Daka Fal...

That's because being hated by Daka Fal is the theological equivalent of hated by a yappiung lapdog.  They know Daka Fal doesn't like thm but he's not important enough to be the subject of their ungying hatred.

 

1 hour ago, Jokum said:

Also, does the shaman ability to establish spirit shrines shake the cosmic compromise?

No.

 

[Jokum]

For some reason i see the Daka Fal shaman much more powerful than Waha or Yelm shamans. With summon ancestor and Spirit teacher spells DF shaman has a source for a great POW stream. 

I suppose Daka Fal has small cults and is family bloodline oriented while the other shaman paths are connected to strong cults and thus have stronger support. 

DF deals with human spirits while others deal with elementals. ...or like Aldrya and Kyger Litor are somewhat limited to their associated spirits.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, metcalph said:

The lightbringers being stuck-up Gods did not.  Ergo Daka Fal hates them.  

That's a debatable point.  By entering the Underworld on their quest, they died.

I think a far more useful separation between Daka Fal and the Orlanthi/Lightbringers is their approach to the spirit world.  Daka Fal, and other shamanic traditions (and both Yelm and the Seven Mothers have shamanic traditions: Golden Bow, Jakaleel), are about bargaining with and coming to terms with the Spirit World.  The Orlanthi command and summon spirits to do their bidding, expecting them to answer.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

That's a debatable point.  By entering the Underworld on their quest, they died.

I think a far more useful separation between Daka Fal and the Orlanthi/Lightbringers is their approach to the spirit world.  Daka Fal, and other shamanic traditions (and both Yelm and the Seven Mothers have shamanic traditions: Golden Bow, Jakaleel), are about bargaining with and coming to terms with the Spirit World.  The Orlanthi command and summon spirits to do their bidding, expecting them to answer.

Funny, that's how I would have described the Yelmic attitude to just about everybody and everything. "Moonson commands, and we obey!"

Whereas Orlanth's initiation has him pushed into the pit of Strangers, which he escapes by communicating and bargaining with the other inmates.

[Corvantir]

On 10/10/2021 at 11:13 AM, Jokum said:

So how is it that Daka Fal is hostile to most cults in Orlanth pantheon but not Yelm or Seven mothers? (Cult compatibility RQ p.310-311) Even Yelm is not so hostile towards orlanthi. For some reason other cults are not so hostile against Daka Fal...

 

Isn't it simply because Grandfather Mortal was tricked by Eurmal and then because Orlanth used Death to kill Yelm and others ? Eurmal and Orlanth are both members of the Air Tribe. There are thus many reasons to prefer the Lunar and Sun Tribes, victims like Daka Fal.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Corvantir

[Jokum]

11 hours ago, Corvantir said:

Isn't it simply because Grandfather Mortal was tricked by Eurmal and then because Orlanth used Death to kill Yelm and other ? Eurmal and Orlanth are both members of the Air Tribe. There are thus many reasons to prefer the Lunar and Sun Tribes, victims like Daka Fal.

Sounds plausible. Still, i'd like it if there was a clear reason for this instead of "read between the lines."

Daka Fal has grudges. Is it that then?

Ofcourse the deeds of the storm gods created the mortality.

[simonh]

On 10/10/2021 at 10:13 AM, Jokum said:

So how is it that Daka Fal is hostile to most cults in Orlanth pantheon but not Yelm or Seven mothers? (Cult compatibility RQ p.310-311) Even Yelm is not so hostile towards orlanthi. For some reason other cults are not so hostile against Daka Fal...

Yelm is another ancestral cult. Not sure about Yelmalio.

EDIT: I suspect the neutrality to some cults foreign to Dragon Pass maybe just that they’re foreign. There’s no history there.

i believe ancestor worshipers exist among the various cultures of Dragon Pass and Prax, but as a separate and competing religious tradition. As a small minority in the culture, they're permanently at risk of getting assimilated into the majority culture and so can only maintain their separate identity and traditions by constantly striving to assert their separate identity, and jealously guarding their privileges. Cult relationships are organisational, not necessarily personal. The dominant religions such as the Orlanth cult don't reciprocate the hostility because DF isn't a threat to them and they don't care about them except when they jealously guard their privileges.

Quote

Also, does the shaman ability to establish spirit shrines shake the cosmic compromise? For there is a path from mortality to godhood in there, if only a mortal hero would get enough worshipping.

Creating a Spirit Shrine doesn't do anything to undermine the compromise. It might be a step towards it, but so is putting your cloths on in the morning.

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by simonh

[JonL]

I expect that Lanbril followers are tacitly accepted by Grandfather Mortal, and that long-running organized crime families actively cultivate both connections. 

[Joerg]

18 minutes ago, simonh said:

Yelm is another ancestral cult. Not sure about Yelmalio.

i believe ancestor worshipers exist among the various cultures of Dragon Pass and Prax, but as a separate and competing religious tradition. As a small minority in the culture, they're permanently at risk of getting assimilated into the majority culture and so can only maintain their separate identity and traditions by constantly striving to assert their separate identity, and jealously guarding their privileges. Cult relationships are organisational, not necessarily personal. The dominant religions such as the Orlanth cult don't reciprocate the hostility because DF isn't a threat to them and they don't care about them except when they jealously guard their privileges.

Creating a Spirit Shrine doesn't do anything to undermine the compromise. It might be a step towards it, but so is putting your cloths on in the morning.

IMG practically everybody is a lay worshipper of Daka Fal. People have and revere ancestors, whether they have a cultic initiation or not.

Initiating to Daka Fal is a much rarer beast among the Orlanthi. Going this way excludes a person from initiating into one of the major cults, although (probably temporary) membership in spirit cults and possibly city cults or regimental cults may be tolerated. 

In RQG Daka Fal is the easy access to the common divine rune spells of the Celestial Court (or of Hantrafal's devising?) for animist characters.

Away from those rules, an Orlanthi (culture member) receiving their main personal spiritual guidance from the ancestors rather than from any specific deity still is pretty mainstream. Such a person will attend and participate in the public sacrifices - who is going to miss a feast, after all?

Becoming a shaman is the rune level option for an initiate of Daka Fal. It is not required, however.

Being a shaman doesn't necessarily prevent a person from achieving greatness as warrior or ruler - King Heort managed to do both while being a shaman. Something like that would have been hard or impossible under RQ3 rules (which imposed hard limits on non-shamanic abilities) but has eased up with RQG (which instead has taboos inflicted on the shaman).

Shamans are rare among the Orlanhti, but so are rune level theists.

Holy people of Daka Fal are probably comparatively well integrated into Orlanthi village life, unlike Kolati or Earth Witches, and may have enough status to have a freeman's weregild. Rich people need to consult or mollify their ancestors, too.