Ransom Questions

[svensson]

I have a couple of questions about ransoms in Glorantha

1. In previous editions, players would bank their ransoms with their temples. In RQG the implication is their families or cult will pay their ransom without having to bank it beforehand. Do I read that right?

2. Who pays a ransom? The steading, clan, or cult? If the two eldest and most fit males [say, steadholder and adult son] in a given steading are taken and ransomed, that could quickly bankrupt the farm, reducing a family of carls to cottar or stick-picker status. And good luck getting you clan to answer the call to war in that case.

3. What about the gear of the prisoner? Is that kept by the victor in addition to the cash ransom, or is the prisoner released with his arms and armor?

[soltakss]

39 minutes ago, svensson said:

1. In previous editions, players would bank their ransoms with their temples. In RQG the implication is their families or cult will pay their ransom without having to bank it beforehand. Do I read that right?

Yes.

However, if you bank the money regardless then you don't need to make a roll to see how much your clan or cult likes you.

39 minutes ago, svensson said:

2. Who pays a ransom? The steading, clan, or cult? If the two eldest and most fit males [say, steadholder and adult son] in a given steading are taken and ransomed, that could quickly bankrupt the farm, reducing a family of carls to cottar or stick-picker status. And good luck getting you clan to answer the call to war in that case.

The clan would probably pay the ransom. In an Orlanthi clan, the cult is the clan, to an extent, so it might be shared between them.

It is a matter of honour to pay a ransom. If the clan does not pay the ransom then they will be seen as mean penny-pinchers.

Sometimes you pay the ransom even if it bankrupts you. It might even be that you have to borrow the money to pay the ransom.

41 minutes ago, svensson said:

3. What about the gear of the prisoner? Is that kept by the victor in addition to the cash ransom, or is the prisoner released with his arms and armor?

That is probably under the terms of the ransom. If I had good gear, I would pay a higher ransom to be able to keep it.

Such terms are probably negotiable.

All in my opinion, of course, and probably wrong, as usual.

[David Scott]

11 hours ago, svensson said:

I have a couple of questions about ransoms in Glorantha

1. In previous editions, players would bank their ransoms with their temples. In RQG the implication is their families or cult will pay their ransom without having to bank it beforehand. Do I read that right?

Page 407, Ransom:

Quote

Many adventurers store treasure with their temple to make sure that there are sufficient resources to pay their ransom

11 hours ago, svensson said:

2. Who pays a ransom? The steading, clan, or cult?

again page 407,

Quote

Ransom is paid by the captive, or by the captive’s kin or temple if:

So the adventurer if they've the resources or a person or community that they have loyalty with (and their roll succeeds).

Rune Priests (page 276) and  Rune Lords (page 280), their temple, shaman - their tribe (page 359)

11 hours ago, svensson said:

If the two eldest and most fit males [say, steadholder and adult son] in a given steading are taken and ransomed, that could quickly bankrupt the farm, reducing a family of carls to cottar or stick-picker status. And good luck getting you clan to answer the call to war in that case.

The community will stand the family the money (depending on the individuals loyalties). page 407 again:

Quote

A ransomed captive owes a life debt to the community that pays their ransom (another reason many adventures store sufficient treasure to pay their own ransoms). This debt can be met by repaying the ransom or through comparable service.

11 hours ago, svensson said:

3. What about the gear of the prisoner? Is that kept by the victor in addition to the cash ransom, or is the prisoner released with his arms and armor?

Spoils of war... 

[Darius West]

On 1/20/2022 at 9:25 AM, svensson said:

I have a couple of questions about ransoms in Glorantha

1. In previous editions, players would bank their ransoms with their temples. In RQG the implication is their families or cult will pay their ransom without having to bank it beforehand. Do I read that right?

2. Who pays a ransom? The steading, clan, or cult? If the two eldest and most fit males [say, steadholder and adult son] in a given steading are taken and ransomed, that could quickly bankrupt the farm, reducing a family of carls to cottar or stick-picker status. And good luck getting you clan to answer the call to war in that case.

3. What about the gear of the prisoner? Is that kept by the victor in addition to the cash ransom, or is the prisoner released with his arms and armor?

1.  Most people have their starting ransoms (the one you get from Character generation in Professions) held by their clan, but the information is passed to whichever temple is closest to where they are adventuring in advance.  For example, if you are heading into Snakepipe Hollow, you may well want to contact your cult representative in Alda Chur about where you are from and who will pay your ransom.  Of course if your cult is currently outlawed it is a pretty smart move to get the Chalana Arroys to ransom you, as everyone loves them or at least trusts them, and likely won't attack or defraud them.  If you get ransomed, you will need to pay back your tribe, and if you want to increase your ransom, you will need to pay in to your ransom fund.  Humakt is also a good choice for paying ransoms and receiving the captured, as they can sense when a deal is likely to go bad, and are honorable enough to abide by terms.

2.  A characters initial ransom is payed by their clan, and generally the character has effectively paid for it with their taxes.  Characters can shift their ransom location over time however, and even have more than one ransom fund effectively.  Obviously a clan has a vested interest in keeping its people free, but sometimes they simply cannot pay, and the character will be sold into slavery or slaughtered if slavery is not an option for some reason.  Now the real ugliness begins when we start talking about taxation...  Can a ransom be considered taxable funds?  In the year it is paid it certainly can.  (Did you keep your receipt as proof of tax paid?  My what? Hmmm... Roll Manage Household)

3. To the victor go the spoils.  Adventure is a synonym for risk.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Darius West

[svensson]

So I think, as a personal house rule, that I'll allow players to ransom back all their gear for half-again or double the ransom value. For example, a thane who is a senior initiate has bronze gear, some of which may have a matrix on it, and is ransomed [person and gear] for 150% of the listed ransom for his social class. A Rune Lord whose gear has enchanted iron in it, would be ransomed for 200% of a noble's listing. Or more if a lot of this gear is iron.

I mean, if a Rune master is taken it would be really crappy to have your allied spirit's 'body' confiscated. The same with a Humakti's ritual sword [the one sword that with the Humakt Gift focused on it] or just a carl with 'the family weapon' that has an honored history.

After all, the whole purpose of ransom is to reduce bloodshed. Being greedy about ransoms and gear just increases the likelihood of multi-generational blood feuds. These will happen anyway, but society is reducing the need for them.

[Darius West]

10 hours ago, svensson said:

So I think, as a personal house rule, that I'll allow players to ransom back all their gear for half-again or double the ransom value. For example, a thane who is a senior initiate has bronze gear, some of which may have a matrix on it, and is ransomed [person and gear] for 150% of the listed ransom for his social class. A Rune Lord whose gear has enchanted iron in it, would be ransomed for 200% of a noble's listing. Or more if a lot of this gear is iron.

I think this is perfectly fair for basic weapons and armor, but let's be utterly candid... Magic items are not going to be returned, and that is what really matters.  I think it fair to say that if most players are offered a choice between 800L in ransom (let the captive live) and an 11pt magic crystal (kill the captive), they will slaughter their captive and take the crystal.  I don't think my players are overly callous, and even if they will take a -10% hit on their honor, they will still kill the captive.  If the captive happens to have a special item like something out of Plunder, then they are doubly dead.  There is also the old adage "never leave a live enemy behind you" to consider; if you ransom someone they can return for revenge, and doubly so to get their magical gear back.

10 hours ago, svensson said:

I mean, if a Rune master is taken it would be really crappy to have your allied spirit's 'body' confiscated. The same with a Humakti's ritual sword [the one sword that with the Humakt Gift focused on it] or just a carl with 'the family weapon' that has an honored history.

This is a fair point.  In this case, the allied spirit weapon likely can't be used by the captor, but it should be ransomed separately I think.  The carl will have more of an issue getting his gear back, as a nice sword pretty much just belongs to whoever takes it.  Of course there is the aggravation factor of having 3 generations of Sartarite carls coming after you to get their sword back, and the endless feuds it can potentially cause, but if their family honor depends on a single sword, you really don't have much honor as a family, do they?

10 hours ago, svensson said:

After all, the whole purpose of ransom is to reduce bloodshed. Being greedy about ransoms and gear just increases the likelihood of multi-generational blood feuds. These will happen anyway, but society is reducing the need for them.

"If you step outside your door you will make three enemies." -Japanese proverb.

[Akhôrahil]

53 minutes ago, Darius West said:

This is a fair point.  In this case, the allied spirit weapon likely can't be used by the captor, but it should be ransomed separately I think.

Since the item with the allied spirit in it is worth far more to the owner than to the captor, an agreement should be very possible here, agree.

Also, since the allied spirit can cast spells, and the original owner can cast spells through it, it might be really hard (depending on cult) to keep it. An Orlanth allied spirit could fly out or teleport, a Humakti one could kill anyone in line of sight, you should only keep the Maran Gor one if you enjoy having your tula hit by earthquakes, and so on.

[Bill the barbarian]

On 1/19/2022 at 3:25 PM, svensson said:

1. In previous editions, players would bank their ransoms with their temples. In RQG the implication is their families or cult will pay their ransom without having to bank it beforehand. Do I read that right?

 

Yes, with a successful Loyalty Family or Loyalty Cult roll

 

On 1/19/2022 at 3:25 PM, svensson said:

3. What about the gear of the prisoner? Is that kept by the victor in addition to the cash ransom, or is the prisoner released with his arms and armor?

Hmm, hive mind? 

16 hours ago, svensson said:

So I think, as a personal house rule, that I'll allow players to ransom back all their gear for half-again or double the ransom value. For example, a thane who is a senior initiate has bronze gear, some of which may have a matrix on it, and is ransomed [person and gear] for 150% of the listed ransom for his social class. A Rune Lord whose gear has enchanted iron in it, would be ransomed for 200% of a noble's listing. Or more if a lot of this gear is iron.

 

This sounds good.

On 1/20/2022 at 3:07 AM, David Scott said:

So the adventurer if they've the resources or a person or community that they have loyalty with (and their roll succeeds).

 

Beat by David Scott!
 

 

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

I think this is perfectly fair for basic weapons and armor, but let's be utterly candid... Magic items are not going to be returned, and that is what really matters.  I think it fair to say that if most players are offered a choice between 800L in ransom (let the captive live) and an 11pt magic crystal (kill the captive),

 

Sad, but possibly true...Still one might have to try to get Dad’s sword back.

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[soltakss]

Also, Players bear in mind, what you do to ransomed NPCs, NPCs can do to you when you ask to be ransomed.

So, if you delight in stripping down to their undies and splitting the loot off amongst your party then don't come crying when you get stripped of all your loot.

[svensson]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

Also, Players bear in mind, what you do to ransomed NPCs, NPCs can do to you when you ask to be ransomed.

So, if you delight in stripping down to their undies and splitting the loot off amongst your party then don't come crying when you get stripped of all your loot.

TRUTH.