Asrelia

[Jose]

One question. I have found a copy of the old "Gods of Glorantha". And I wonder, if those fortunate of you who have the preview of the new version for RQG, is the Asrelia cult much different? or can I use as it is in the old book?. Thank you. 

[David Scott]

Runes are the same, spirit magic is the same, Initiate requirements & skills are different: Standard. A candidate must donate 300 L to the temple, be able to Read/Write Theyalan at 50% or more, and the skills tested include: Bureaucracy, Conceal, Evaluate, Manage Household, Mineral Lore, and Speak Earthspeech. Rune spells are expanded: add Command Dog, Command Snake, Dismiss Earth Elemental (small or medium), Preserve Wealth, Summon Earth Elemental (small or medium), Summon Guardian. No acolytes, just priests.

[JDM]

There are also some changes in Associated Gods in the GoG draft.

Babeester Gor now provides Earth Shield

Ernalda now gives Inviolable 

Maran Gor still gives Blast Earth and Ty Kora Tek Command Ghost

Caladra & Aurelion is an Associared Cult in Kethaela and Maniria and provides Fertilise

[Akhôrahil]

14 hours ago, David Scott said:

A candidate must donate 300 L to the temple

Whoa! It’s not for old ladies, it’s for wealthy old ladies!

[Shiningbrow]

3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Whoa! It’s not for old ladies, it’s for wealthy old ladies!

Ummmm.... Yes??? She is the goddess of wealth... 

[Ironwall]

So I thought all woman who became old in orlanthi society transferred to the asrelia. Considering the rather big requirement to join as an initiate do they just become lay members?

[g33k]

40 minutes ago, Ironwall said:

So I thought all woman who became old in orlanthi society transferred to the asrelia. Considering the rather big requirement to join as an initiate do they just become lay members?

Many (not all!) Ernaldan's join Asrelia.  This is sort of the "natural" progression ... Voria / Ernalda / Asrelia form the Maiden/Mother/Crone trio.

It's notsomuch the "natural" progression for Vingans, though, and a bunch of other dieties (B.Gor, M.Gor, LM, CA, etc).

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Many (not all!) Ernaldan's join Asrelia.

With a 300L buy-in, the number has got to be a bit limited... it's 60% of the value of the farm!

[g33k]

3 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

With a 300L buy-in, the number has got to be a bit limited... it's 60% of the value of the farm!

It wouldn't surprise me if wealthier families covered the costs, as part of being "patron" families for their followers.

But no, I don't expect the number rises even as high as the "Orlanthi All" 6/7ths.

 

[Akhôrahil]

12 minutes ago, g33k said:

It wouldn't surprise me if wealthier families covered the costs, as part of being "patron" families for their followers.

But no, I don't expect the number rises even as high as the "Orlanthi All" 6/7ths.

And to be fair, you don't need spells like Hide Wealth if you don't have any wealth to hide.

Agree that this has to be something for wealthier families.

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

Ty Kora Tek for the majority of Oldies, women and men. Death comes for all, regardless of gender. 

[JRE]

I would say in Sartar most men will remain in Orlanth their whole lives, but menopause is mythically a big change for women (as it is in the RW), and why the age progression has that additional step for women. I agree that more men join TKT than other earth cults, for the reason posted above, but they are still a small minority, usually elder men who have lost their families.

They are close to death, they have lost their main orlanthi purpose (sustaining the family) but they can still help the clan. IMG that allows their land, if any, to revert to someone that can work it. If younger or a warrior, Humakt could be a choice, but you cannot do that after a certain age. 

As long as your famly needs you, and can support you, Orlanth still fills the needs of family and clan, even if you are old.

Returning to Asrelia, I would say that in a landed household (what we used to call carls) one of the elder women will pick up the mantle of Asrelia, usually an active widower or a natural leader/meddler. The whole household pitches for initiation. Many women will stay with Ernalda even after menopause, as their daughters and husband(s) still need their help and wisdom, and widows will gravitate to Ty Kora Tek. As long as you have Orlanth as a husband, you can still feel like Ernalda. 

I imagine things are much more complex in Esrolia, with plenty of subcults, associated cults and secret societies to devote your energy. In urban environments Asrelia will be more plentiful, as she may well be the head of a business (accountant/manager) while her extended family actually works at it. So shops, crafters and traders will usually have an Asrelian in a position of responsibility. I would expect that in this case not all of them will have gone through menopause, but at least they will no longer have responsibilities with kids, so they can mythically progress from Ernalda to Asrelia.

[David Scott]

16 hours ago, Ironwall said:

So I thought all woman who became old in orlanthi society transferred to the asrelia.

Not always, it's a specialist cult, stores riches, she protects granaries, miners and trolls. Most will stay an initiate of Ernalda.

16 hours ago, Ironwall said:

Considering the rather big requirement to join as an initiate do they just become lay members?

The requirement is Standard. A candidate must donate 300 L to the temple, be...

Per RQG page 274, that means they must have 50% in one rune, and if one or both parents were cult initiates, the adventurer may join simply by sacrificing 1 point of POW—no other tests need be made. Everything after Standard is for those not known to the temple. Simply put most women who's mother was a member automatically joins for a point of POW.

Lay membership is 50L for a year, except for miners who's fee is offset against gems and metal found. 

Given the riches of those associated with the cult 50L / 300L / 2500L (for priestesses) is not unreasonable.

Ernalda priestesses may retire automatically become Asrelia priestesses with no further requirements.

[Jose]

I had read somewhere that asrelia, earth witch and helpwoman are the same goddess. Is that true? 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Jose

[David Scott]

1 minute ago, Jose said:

I had read somewhere that asrelia, earth witch and helpwoman are the same goddess. Is that true? 

Sort of there's no pantheon that would equate them directly, but the god learners likely tried to categorise them such.

Helpwoman is the Praxian spirit cult of the Matron.

Earth Witch (earth & spirit) is a spirit cult at the Paps in Prax (and part of many other pantheons), she is Grandmother Earth, a daughter of Ga.

Asrelia (life, earth & luck) is the Grandmother of Wealth, a daughter of Ga.

Earth Witch & Asrelia have the same mother and could be the theistic / spirit aspect of the same being.

Helpwoman & Earth witch are certainly older/younger aspects of the the same great spirit.

Helpwoman is similar to Ernalda in her domestic aspect, Asrelia might be her mother (but it's more likely to be Earth Witch)

I can certainly imagine earth heroquesters discovering their associations. 

[g33k]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Sort of there's no pantheon that would equate them directly, but the god learners likely tried to categorise them such.

Helpwoman is the Praxian spirit cult of the Matron.

Earth Witch (earth & spirit) is a spirit cult at the Paps in Prax (and part of many other pantheons), she is Grandmother Earth, a daughter of Ga.

Asrelia (life, earth & luck) is the Grandmother of Wealth, a daughter of Ga.

Earth Witch & Asrelia have the same mother and could be the theistic / spirit aspect of the same being.

Helpwoman & Earth witch are certainly older/younger aspects of the the same great spirit.

Helpwoman is similar to Ernalda in her domestic aspect, Asrelia might be her mother (but it's more likely to be Earth Witch)

I can certainly imagine earth heroquesters discovering their associations. 

In one document over on Glorantha.com (I don't know if it has migrated to the Well or not) it was stated that Earth Witch was found during the Great Winter to have access to Ernalda, even though the priestesses did not...

Seems to me that "Earth Witch" is more a title/descriptor, and likely refers to different entities in different contexts... and *also* that sometimes what are taken as "different" are not.

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

In one document over on Glorantha.com

This one - Earth Witch and Windstop

1 hour ago, g33k said:

(I don't know if it has migrated to the Well or not)

Everything was migrated.

1 hour ago, g33k said:

it was stated that Earth Witch was found during the Great Winter to have access to Ernalda, even though the priestesses did not...

The source (141 of Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes) would still seem to apply. Although priestesses who are members of her spirit cult could certainly contact her.

She's got quite limited magic.

As an aside, she can not only contact Ernalda, but Eiritha too, as she was her midwife for the birth of Waha.

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Seems to me that "Earth Witch" is more a title/descriptor, and likely refers to different entities in different contexts... and *also* that sometimes what are taken as "different" are not.

It will become clearer once the Prosopaedia is out, she is an ancient spirit.

Edited February 17, 2022 by David Scott

[g33k]

30 minutes ago, David Scott said:

This one - Earth Witch and Windstop

No; that looks like a snippet from an old mailing-list.
I was recalling something that looked more like a prosopaedia entry, a full-page (or or maybe just half a page?) write-up.

There's a snippet of it in the "Some Gods" list under the "Serdrodosa" entry -- https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/some-gods/
But that includes some bits I don't recall, doesn't include others I do recall, and is just one element in the long list, instead of being its own whole page.
 

IIRC, there was a section of gods (and other entities?) in alphabetical order, with back/next buttons for navigating, and (I think under the name Serdrodosa, or maybe Sedrodosa) she had a larger entry.

 

[Ironwall]

Don't miner's also worship he. Is it only lay membership? Are male miners allowed to join the cult? Or is it a propritary worship?