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Piety and sorcerers


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The Vadeli recognized that Law Zero is "Those who do not keep to the Law must age and die." Their praxis of systematically breaking the rest of the Law allows them to break Law Zero as well. To escape aging via the Vadeli path, you break ALL of the Law.

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9 minutes ago, JonL said:

The Vadeli recognized that Law Zero is "Those who do not keep to the Law must age and die." Their praxis of systematically breaking the rest of the Law allows them to break Law Zero as well. To escape aging via the Vadeli path, you break ALL of the Law.

It's a sad thing really because I translate that one a little more floridly as "The life within is the law without: that which you have rejected will save you whereas he who clingeth to the letter of it shall become a corpse and be eaten." Whatever that might mean in one's Glorantha of course!

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19 hours ago, metcalph said:

Even Malkion grew old before his untimely death.  What I think Rightness is about is strengthening the immortal self - the logical part of you  The Brithini and Vadeli believe it is lost after death and the other Malkioni disagree.

Growing old is not the same as growing weak, or dying.  Malkion was murdered. He didn't die of old age.  On the other hand, if one picks over his story, there are some worrying questions about some of his actions that might raise the specter that he had fallen from the path, and that is why Zzabur needed to have him killed, before he discredited his teaching by dying of old age.  Of course such beliefs would make one a very interesting sort of Malkioni heretic I think.

19 hours ago, metcalph said:

Which requires that Rightness be the cause of Brithini and Vadeli immortality which I don't think is correct.

And here we disagree.  The expressed purpose of following caste is that it grants immortality.  It's simple logic that even a dromali can understand.

19 hours ago, metcalph said:

The word from Greg was the Vadeli are gloranthan Cainists - a gnostic sect who believed that everything taught in the Old Testament was the work of the wicked demiurge and thus wrong.  To achieve salvation, one must therefore break those teachings.   The Guide supports this with a picture of a Brown Vadeli haveing long fingernails to avoid material work.  So I think they are more sophisticated than just good psychopaths.

I am well aware of the Cainites (not to be confused with the World of Darkness variant), and their philosophy, and the Cainites of earth were and are nothing like the Vadeli.  They simply point to examples of the abuse of power of the God of the Old Testament as proof that the entity can be proven to be evil because of its own hypocrisy, where it says one thing while doing the opposite.

I would never argue that Vadeli are 'only psychopaths' either, as that suggests that a society of psychopaths would have no culture, which is patently untrue.   Half the charm/horror of the Vadeli is considering what their culture would be like.

That being said, I strongly believe that the Vadeli have analyzed everything about the caste system, and know to six significant figures exactly how far they can push a specific behavior without breaking caste, in order to maintain their precious immortality.  Remember, doing evil things is not the same as breaking caste, and it falls to the upper castes to punish the lower castes for misdeeds, so if there are no Vadeli Talari, then there is no-one with the authority to insist they be punished.  Ever wonder why the Vadeli don't have other castes?  Here is your answer.

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22 hours ago, metcalph said:

They have Wrongness

mmm I dislike this option.

for me, the"rightness" key word in the next rules means only :

"in the path you follow, your rightness score represents where you are on your path, and what level of power you succeed to gain from your path"

then for us, irl, considering that a sect (if I can use this word) has wrongness, is just considering that this sect is unable to provide any benefit for its members

 

of course for a sect-A follower, the sect-B followers follow a more or less wrong path because they don't follow sect-A path.

 

So yes Vadeli are probably* seen as having a "wrongness" by the Rokari.

But from the Vadeli perspective, they follow their own rightness. If not the Vadeli big guys should be less vadeli and more rokari.


* "probably" = because I know so few about vadeli; what they are, how they are seen from others, that I don't want to say "that is the way it is" or even "that should be the way it is"

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I agree the Vadeli will call it Rightness, probably laughing when they think how the Brithini would call it. As to what are the right actions for each caste, I am sure they are secret and the Vadeli deliberately misdirect outsiders, as they know that knowing the taboos gives you a lever to manipulte people. Probably the Reds do not need to drink blood, but they do it anyway to gross and confuse others. 

The fact that there are, as far as we know, no Yellow Vadeli means that the actual Rightness may have an individual component, so that each Vadeli picks his own Right actions (from a limited set for each caste), which makes them the most individualist of the Western sects, and also the reason why nobody agrees what actions maintain their inmortality.

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On 7/21/2022 at 10:26 AM, Darius West said:

Clearly the God Learners have broken the true rules of their caste or they would have stayed immortal, which they clearly aren't.

Only the Brithini, and maybe the Vadeli, have that.

Other Malkioni die even if they are true to their castes.

 

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

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On 7/23/2022 at 4:18 AM, soltakss said:

Only the Brithini, and maybe the Vadeli, have that.  Other Malkioni die even if they are true to their castes.

Agreed Soltkass, that is the point I am making here.  The Brithini and Vadeli have immortality as proof of their following of true Malkioni caste.  The others have to settle for the booby prize of mortality and the rather strangled promise of "solace".  In short, the poor Westerners think of themselves as Man Runes and not much as spirits.

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The Brithini have immortality because they haven't changed since Death appeared.

Why we live forever?

When Zzabur asked his father, "How do we stay immortal?"the Prophet answered simply. He said, "Do not change. Do what you have done. Act within the Laws and Ways you have been given, for they are immortal. Your actions embody the One, your bodies enact the One. Anything new from this moment forward is Death."

Thus we were never severed from Life, like the rest; from Magic, like the rest; from Divinity, like the rest; from Good, like the rest; from ourselves, like the rest. We are not mortal people, or gods, or good people, or our own people -- we simply are. All else is a wane shadow of us.

When we die, the world dies. We are the last holders of the One. When we are gone, all else will go to. When we are gone, everything left is corruption and death.

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3 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The Brithini have immortality because they haven't changed since Death appeared.

Why we live forever?

When Zzabur asked his father, "How do we stay immortal?"the Prophet answered simply. He said, "Do not change. Do what you have done. Act within the Laws and Ways you have been given, for they are immortal. Your actions embody the One, your bodies enact the One. Anything new from this moment forward is Death."

Thus we were never severed from Life, like the rest; from Magic, like the rest; from Divinity, like the rest; from Good, like the rest; from ourselves, like the rest. We are not mortal people, or gods, or good people, or our own people -- we simply are. All else is a wane shadow of us.

When we die, the world dies. We are the last holders of the One. When we are gone, all else will go to. When we are gone, everything left is corruption and death.

It is not possible for those not already Brithini to become Brithini.

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