Questions about Summons of Evil

[Zalain]

hello all,

in actual campaing we performing, Red Moon raiders have taken natal town of my adventurers and pretendinig to summon the Crimsom Bat if citicens dont cooperate. the only who could escape are my adventurers: now they have to save the town before the crimsom bat were summoned.

To achieve that, one of the characters wants to use the ritual "summons of evil" to summon the Red Moon Priests and bodyguards to the effigie, and then run to the town and kill the remaining guards stealthy. But reading the description of the spell, and some topic in this forum...

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/the-summons-of-evil/

 

Make me get lots of questions if what they planned can be done (summon evil, but the run away from effigie):

• What happens if you never destroy the effigie? (i think would be different  if you arent able to destroy it because enemy is too strong, than you arent willing to destroy it because you are going to make some tactics).
• can you summon your enemy and then go away?
• is there any dice roll? (if they fumble, they summon the crimsom bat itself)
• when you perform ritual, the effige is embodied by a enemy spirit AND another fisical enemy is summoned?? Or it summons the strongest, if its a spirit it is trapped in effigie, but if is a fisical enemy it gets atracted to the effigie
• this ritual has to be performed in a sanctified place?

 

thank you in advance. I imagine that your answers will create more questions.

 

Z.

 

 

 

[Joerg]

Summons of Evil requires the summoners to face that evil. Leaving the evil unattended will have dire consequences for their community.

[Squaredeal Sten]

1 hour ago, Zalain said:

..... one of the characters wants to use the ritual "summons of evil" to summon the Red Moon Priests and bodyguards to the effigie, and then run to the town and kill the remaining guards stealthy. But reading the description of the spell, and some topic in this forum...

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/the-summons-of-evil/

 

 

• What happens if you never destroy the effigie? ....
• is there any dice roll? (if they fumble, they summon the crimsom bat itself)
• when you perform ritual, the effige is embodied by a enemy spirit AND another fisical enemy is summoned?? Or ....

Re. What happens if the image is not destroyed: Then the summoners have unleashed a magical monster in the community.  This is not good.  It might even get  them % in the Chaos rune.

As for exactly what is summoned, that is up to the Gamemaster (GM).  If the summoner uses an effigy then the effigy should usually be animated.  But on a fumble or if they use no effigy then it is the GM's option.  Do you want to let them execute their plan?  Or is there some reason you think it should go wrong?

There is no particular die roll indicated for those decisions.

Bear in mind that MGF does not indicate killing the whole party.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[soltakss]

3 hours ago, Zalain said:

in actual campaing we performing, Red Moon raiders have taken natal town of my adventurers and pretendinig to summon the Crimsom Bat if citicens dont cooperate. the only who could escape are my adventurers: now they have to save the town before the crimsom bat were summoned.

To achieve that, one of the characters wants to use the ritual "summons of evil" to summon the Red Moon Priests and bodyguards to the effigie, and then run to the town and kill the remaining guards stealthy. But reading the description of the spell, and some topic in this forum...

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/the-summons-of-evil/

It would be better for the summoner and friends to face the Red Moon Priests and bodyguards, then the other half of the party to ambush and kill the remaining guards.

That way, you complete the Summons of Evil and still get to kill both sets of worshippers.

However, what if all the guards are called by the Summons of Evil? You get a stronger force to attack, with half the party doing nothing, or running to ambush the Priests from the rear.

3 hours ago, Zalain said:

What happens if you never destroy the effigie? (i think would be different  if you arent able to destroy it because enemy is too strong, than you arent willing to destroy it because you are going to make some tactics).

The effigy is just a symbol. The idea is to summon an enemy and defeat them, lancing the boil, as it where.

3 hours ago, Zalain said:

can you summon your enemy and then go away?

Yes, of course you can.

It is normally very bad to do this, as the enemy can devastate your clan. 

You would also get marked as cowards, and the Orlanth Spirits of Reprisals will come visiting.

3 hours ago, Zalain said:

is there any dice roll? (if they fumble, they summon the crimsom bat itself)

I don't think there is, but you could always roll a Rune and see what happens on a Fumble.

RQ3 had a rule for summoning that if you rolled 01-10 on 1D100 you summoned something more powerful.

3 hours ago, Zalain said:

when you perform ritual, the effige is embodied by a enemy spirit AND another fisical enemy is summoned?? Or it summons the strongest, if its a spirit it is trapped in effigie, but if is a fisical enemy it gets atracted to the effigie

Either way works for me.

You could summon the enemy to the effigy, so that it acts as a focus.

Or the effigy becomes possessed by a spirit and becomes evil.

In this case, I would have the Red Moon Priests travel to the place of summoning and try to defeat the Adventurers.

Having the Crimson Bat turn up as well would be a great laugh.

3 hours ago, Zalain said:

this ritual has to be performed in a sanctified place?

Preferably, yes, but a Sanctified area might be OK.

3 hours ago, Zalain said:

thank you in advance. I imagine that your answers will create more questions.

Let's hope so.

 

[Zalain]

 

3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

...  Do you want to let them execute their plan?  Or is there some reason you think it should go wrong?

They only question how the ritual works. So i asked for their plan:

 

Their idea was (..is) to make a effigie with redmoon simbols and runes to atract those redmoon priest. Not other evilness: just redmoon evilness. So maybe they get a really big bad redmoon spirit into effigie   ...or...   those priest coming to the effigie.

The ritual is what it is. And it implies to fight whatever it is summoned. I wonder that Orlanth wouldnt be pleased if they leave the ring where the effigie is. And for that, i would do opposed rolls to Devotion Orlanth against Love family (you want to save your family but you have to betrayal your god).

If they success on their rolls, then the plan could be fine, or could be wrong

 

3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Re. What happens if the image is not destroyed: Then the summoners have unleashed a magical monster in the community.  This is not good.  It might even get  them % in the Chaos rune.

 

I wouldn´t give them a % of chaos rune, instead i would punish with a % malus to Honor, and significatively reduce reputation...

 

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

It is normally very bad to do this, as the enemy can devastate your clan. 

You would also get marked as cowards, and the Orlanth Spirits of Reprisals will come visiting.

hehehe! And of course: Reprisal Spirits.

 

But, if their plan works? maybe Orlanth would be expectant before punish

i think is better and easier for all to make them to change their mind, and look for another strategy (i really was expecting an stealth assault killing one by one, but... they ALWAYS do everything different or take different ways, go different paths of what i planed... lol ).

 

salutes

 

Z.

[Beoferret]

This all brings to mind two questions I've had about the whole Summons of Evil ritual. Say the PCs successfully complete it and a couple of nearby broo answer the call:

A) How do the PCs know that the ritual was successful, if the coming chaos creatures are a couple of days away? Are they supposed to just sit there waiting and hoping?

B) What's to stop anyone else from attacking/killing the summoned evil, while it's on its way to the site of the effigy? If some hunters see a couple of broo seemingly on a walkabout, why wouldn't they try to kill them (either right then and there or after getting some backup)? Is there something that indicates that summoned foes are part of a ritual and shouldn't be touched?

Edited September 3, 2022 by Beoferret
Slight correction ("of the" changed to "if the").

[soltakss]

21 hours ago, Zalain said:

But, if their plan works? maybe Orlanth would be expectant before punish

If the plan works then you are all fine.

You ambush the remaining guards and kill them, then run back to the main fight and charge the Red Moon Priests in the rear.

Orlanth thinks you are fantastic.

21 hours ago, Zalain said:

i think is better and easier for all to make them to change their mind, and look for another strategy (i really was expecting an stealth assault killing one by one, but... they ALWAYS do everything different or take different ways, go different paths of what i planed... lol ).

As a GM, I try not to make Players change their strategy. Of course, I say things like "Are you sure about this?" and point out obvious flaws, if they are flaws that the Adventurers might know, or misunderstandings about how the rules work, but other than that I'd say "OK, let's go for it!" and see what happens.

20 hours ago, Beoferret said:

A) How do the PCs know that the ritual was successful, of the coming chaos creatures are a couple of days away? Are they supposed to just sit there waiting and hoping?

Yes, exactly that.

 

20 hours ago, Beoferret said:

B) What's to stop anyone else from attacking/killing the summoned evil, while it's on its way to the site of the effigy? If some hunters see a couple of broo seemingly on a walkabout, why wouldn't they try to kill them (either right then and there or after getting some backup)? Is there something that indicates that summoned foes are part of a ritual and shouldn't be touched?

There is nothing that stops that.

Of course, the enemy is now on a HeroQuest and gets a certain amount of immunity, so they can effectively ignore the journey there as being inconsequential, but other NPCs could butt in on the HeroQuest and ambush the enemy. Sometimes, other members of your clan/tribe might do that to bring glory on themselves and dishonour on you.

 

 

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 9/2/2022 at 6:59 PM, Zalain said:

and significatively reduce reputation...

in my opinion, you have to augment their reputation

now everyone knows them as the losers who failed.

good deed or bad deed = more reputation :  the stat doesn't show what people think about you, only they recognize you

 

On 9/2/2022 at 8:09 PM, Beoferret said:

A) How do the PCs know that the ritual was successful, if the coming chaos creatures are a couple of days away? Are they supposed to just sit there waiting and hoping?

they can't (for me). But if they meet some chaoos, they may consider this chaos is what they summoned. but maybe there is just an accident, and the true summoned chaos is not yet here

On 9/2/2022 at 8:09 PM, Beoferret said:

B) What's to stop anyone else from attacking/killing the summoned evil, while it's on its way to the site of the effigy? If some hunters see a couple of broo seemingly on a walkabout, why wouldn't they try to kill them (either right then and there or after getting some backup)? Is there something that indicates that summoned foes are part of a ritual and shouldn't be touched?

I would consider that, if the spell is successful, it means that the summoned evil arrives in all cases. Maybe the evil is not made "from scratch" and is hunted by others, but the hunters will not succeed to catch it before the summoners meet the evil.

they may arrive after the fight, during the fight (and decide to join their effort or no) but there is a fate, the evil must meet the summoners

 

of course if the spell is a failure, the evil may be summoned, and destroyed before it joins the summoners

[Scotty]

On 9/2/2022 at 1:05 PM, Zalain said:

• this ritual has to be performed in a sanctified place?

Yes, it's part of a Orlanth worship ceremony: This spell is typically performed at the start of a Worship Orlanth ritual. Make sure that your Storm Voice or Wind voice is at hand in case of problems.

On 9/2/2022 at 1:05 PM, Zalain said:

• What happens if you never destroy the effigie? (i think would be different  if you arent able to destroy it because enemy is too strong,

The effigy always fights back. It's only effective if its powers can go beyond the effigy, so the GM should always select representative power.s If the intent is to summon

Red Moon Priests and bodyguards 

then I'd always start with a representative Chaos ability (RQB 166) and choose As an extra attack, Befuddles one foe per round as per the spirit magic spell (resistance roll required) or Spits acid of 2D10 POT 1D6 times per day with 6-meter range, then give it an attack ability perhaps as an elemental form (RQB 166), so a Lune or maybe just a big Scimitar (spirit weapon RQB 167). Remember that those who fight it get a bonus against the type of magic it uses, so the befuddle one can be very useful.

On 9/2/2022 at 1:05 PM, Zalain said:

• than you arent willing to destroy it because you are going to make some tactics).

One of the great things about this spell is that you often want it to stay active to draw the enemy to them (my players managed 11 days recently).

On 9/2/2022 at 1:05 PM, Zalain said:

• can you summon your enemy and then go away?

It will need keeping in check, so summoning it and leaving just means you've summoned a giant evil monster, and left it to rampage... That may not be a problem for the the players but it's MGF for the GM. What shall I break first...

On 9/2/2022 at 1:05 PM, Zalain said:

• is there any dice roll? (if they fumble, they summon the crimsom bat itself)

Yes you need to spend the Rune points (3), then it's a 3 hour ceremony. They might want to consider boosting it with more rune points for better effect (I let them add more dice to the POW) and then the caster's play should roll on the air rune. It can be augment by ritual bonuses. Usual success and failures apply. They are only going to get the Crimson Bat if it's the nearest in range.

On 9/2/2022 at 1:05 PM, Zalain said:

• when you perform ritual, the effige is embodied by a enemy spirit AND another fisical enemy is summoned??

Only the spirit at first, but the longer you keep it alive the better the chance of the actual enemy appearing.

Personally I'd let them go through with it, then let them realise what they've got themselves into... 

[Scotty]

On 9/2/2022 at 7:09 PM, Beoferret said:

This all brings to mind two questions I've had about the whole Summons of Evil ritual. Say the PCs successfully complete it and a couple of nearby broo answer the call:

A) How do the PCs know that the ritual was successful, if the coming chaos creatures are a couple of days away? Are they supposed to just sit there waiting and hoping?

They are not just waiting, they are keeping the effigy in check. Generally I use the bigger the spirit, the faster the enemy gets there (I use a simple a 4D+6 spirit is a week, and for each dice more, subtract a day. for an 8 or 9D+6 spirit (on high holy days or sacred time) the ritual can pull an enemy heroquester into the ritual).

On 9/2/2022 at 7:09 PM, Beoferret said:

B) What's to stop anyone else from attacking/killing the summoned evil, while it's on its way to the site of the effigy?

MGF.

On 9/2/2022 at 7:09 PM, Beoferret said:

If some hunters see a couple of broo seemingly on a walkabout, why wouldn't they try to kill them (either right then and there or after getting some backup)?

It's magic, use MGF.

On 9/2/2022 at 7:09 PM, Beoferret said:

s there something that indicates that summoned foes are part of a ritual and shouldn't be touched?

See above. 

[Lordabdul]

Don't forget that many questions like these (and more) have already been answered by Scotty on the Q&A page in the Well of Daliath.

[Lordabdul]

Oh and it looks like all those questions I alluded to have been moved to the Red Book of Magic Q&A page (I imagine this is for centralizing all information on the same page and avoid having to bounce between RBoM and rulebook Q&As)

[Scotty]

2 hours ago, Lordabdul said:

Oh and it looks like all those questions I alluded to have been moved to the Red Book of Magic Q&A page (I imagine this is for centralizing all information on the same page and avoid having to bounce between RBoM and rulebook Q&As)

yes, exactly that, and the same with spirit magic. Updates affecting spells specifically in the core rules, are repeated on the relevant core rules page.

This also affects spells in the Bestiary.