High resolution map of the Young Kingdoms?

[Chaot]

Anyone know of one? I want to print off a poster sized map. I'm after, like, ten years I'm itching to run a game in the Young Kingdoms.

Any help would be appreciated!

[Marcus Bone]

Try here... I really should look at at getting more maps from the various supplements and locations up there as well... 

https://stormbringerrpg.com/character-sheets-references/maps-of-the-young-kingdoms/

[Chaot]

They are great resources, but too small to blow up poster size.

[Marcus Bone]

You could purchase this one - https://titam-france.fr/jeux-de-role/produit/mournblade-carte-des-jeunes-royaumes-pdf/

It is already poster sized (I've had it up on my wall for a while), but some of the locations are in French. 

 

 

[DreadDomain]

On 5/9/2023 at 9:52 AM, Chaot said:

Anyone know of one? I want to print off a poster sized map. I'm after, like, ten years I'm itching to run a game in the Young Kingdoms.

Any help would be appreciated!

The physical map is out of stock but le Département des Sombres Projets sells the PDF of it https://titam-france.fr/jeux-de-role/produit/mournblade-carte-des-jeunes-royaumes-pdf/. The physical map does 16" by 22". This PDF is in French but the English version is supposed to come out this year.

EDIT: Ninja'd!

Just to clarify further. The English version exists already and the PDF was distributed to the backer of Elric Rise of the Young KIngdoms tabletop game.

Edited May 14, 2023 by DreadDomain

[Chaot]

I'm miffed that I missed that Kickstarter. Thanks guys. I guess I'll just have to be a little patient.

[Mugen]

On 5/14/2023 at 9:26 PM, Marcus Bone said:

Try here... I really should look at at getting more maps from the various supplements and locations up there as well... 

https://stormbringerrpg.com/character-sheets-references/maps-of-the-young-kingdoms/

I'm shocked by the difference between both maps shown here.

For instance, in the top one, Bakshaar is a port near the sea. On the bottom one, it's an inland city near a river.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Mugen

[NickMiddleton]

23 minutes ago, Mugen said:

I'm shocked by the difference between both maps shown here.

I adore the original William Church map from the original edition of Stormbringer; but it, like much of the rest of that edition, was not meticulously or rigorously checked for 100% accuracy to the published fiction at that point - and let's be honest, Moorcock himself even back then was not a writer interested in the minutiae of continuity... ...iirc it wasn't until Elric! (circa 1992) that Bakshaan got moved inland...

23 minutes ago, Mugen said:

For instance, in the top one, Bakshaan is a port near the sea. On the bottom one, it's an inland city near a river.

...something I've been making jokes about, both online and in published material, for decades... see for example the ERRATIC ILMIORAN SAILOR in the Old Hrolmar monograph, 😉

 

[Atgxtg]

6 hours ago, NickMiddleton said:

I adore the original William Church map from the original edition of Stormbringer; but it, like much of the rest of that edition, was not meticulously or rigorously checked for 100% accuracy to the published fiction at that point - and let's be honest, Moorcock himself even back then was not a writer interested in the minutiae of continuity... ...iirc it wasn't until Elric! (circa 1992) that Bakshaan got moved inland...

...something I've been making jokes about, both online and in published material, for decades... see for example the ERRATIC ILMIORAN SAILOR in the Old Hrolmar monograph, 😉

 

I believe there is a official map in one (or more) of the Elric books. It's not as detailed as the William Church map, but hopefully is more accurate. I'll see if I can dig it up.

I think it was in the end papers of the hardcover Elric of Melniboné  book, but I can't find mine.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Atgxtg

[DreadDomain]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

I believe there is a official map in one (or more) of the Elric books. It's not as detailed as the William Church map, but hopefully is more accurate. I'll see if I can dig it up.

I think it was in the end papers of the hardcover Elric of Melniboné  book, but I can't find mine.

Except that "official" map puts Cadsandria in Jarkhor (wrong country, wrong continent) - assuming you are talking about the Elric Saga stories collecetd in three volumes (Elric of Melniboné, Stormbringer and The White Wolf. 

[DreadDomain]

7 hours ago, NickMiddleton said:

I adore the original William Church map from the original edition of Stormbringer;

The map for Mournblade seems to be heavily based on that map.

7 hours ago, NickMiddleton said:

...iirc it wasn't until Elric! (circa 1992) that Bakshaan got moved inland...

But maps after Elric!, including the Elric Saga map and the Mournblade map, put Bakshaan back on the coast.

[Atgxtg]

6 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Except that "official" map puts Cadsandria in Jarkhor (wrong country, wrong continent) - assuming you are talking about the Elric Saga stories collecetd in three volumes (Elric of Melniboné, Stormbringer and The White Wolf. 

I was talking about the map inside the Elric of Melniboné hardcover (just one book). I haven't looked at the book in decades, so I don't remember it exactly, but I think it might have been similar or even identical to the Paul Ruiz map did that accompanies the AD&D adventure co-written by Michael Moorcock for Imagine magazine. 

 

[Mugen]

On 5/19/2023 at 6:13 AM, Atgxtg said:

I was talking about the map inside the Elric of Melniboné hardcover (just one book). I haven't looked at the book in decades, so I don't remember it exactly, but I think it might have been similar or even identical to the Paul Ruiz map did that accompanies the AD&D adventure co-written by Michael Moorcock for Imagine magazine. 

The map in your post is not very different from William Church's map.

There's another map in a french Elric comic book, on which the Unholy Fortress is not on an island in the Eastern Ocean, but rather on a mountain barrier that closes that ocean. It's otherwise very similar to Church's map.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Mugen

[Atgxtg]

10 hours ago, Mugen said:

The map in your post is not very different from William Church's map.

No, it's not. It just has the benefit of being made for an adventure co-written by Michael Moorcock, so it (probably) doesn't have anything wrong with it. 

I'm very fond of the Church map too, and if I were to run Stombringer again, I'd probably use it as the standard map, and make a few digital edits to fix the things we now know are wrong. 

10 hours ago, Mugen said:

There's another map in a french Elric comic book, on which the Unholy Fortress is not on an island in the Eastern Ocean, but rather on a mountain barrier that closes that ocean. It's otherwise very similar to Church's map.

I would suspect most maps would be similar to the Church maps, because they all cover basically the same place., and all do it from a "God's Eye" perspective. It's kinda like comparing maps of Europe made within the last few decades. Most of the coastlines, cities, mountains and countries are the same.

[Atgxtg]

On 5/18/2023 at 9:29 AM, NickMiddleton said:

and let's be honest, Moorcock himself even back then was not a writer interested in the minutiae of continuity

Quite true. The Early Elric stories were written for Science Fantasy magazine, and Moorcock was more concerned with telling a good story rather that worldbuilding. Continuity wasn't really a thing back then, as the idea that readers would collect stories and compare them to fact check the "color" details was the furthest thing from anyone's mind. 

It wasn't until later that Moorcock started to edit his stories and swap out characters in certain stories to better fit an established timeline, that continuity became a thing, and that was probably because the concept of the Eternal Champion made continuity somewhat important.

I think RPGs sometime forget that we take worldbuilding and continuity to new levels. 

 

[Mugen]

17 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

I would suspect most maps would be similar to the Church maps, because they all cover basically the same place., and all do it from a "God's Eye" perspective. It's kinda like comparing maps of Europe made within the last few decades. Most of the coastlines, cities, mountains and countries are the same.

It's also worth saying that this comic book has a scenario by Julien Blondel, who was originally known as a RPG designer (he did some work for Nephilim and In Nomine, among other things). I guess he's more familiar with Chaosium books than Moorcock original publications.

[Marcus Bone]

On 5/19/2023 at 1:29 AM, NickMiddleton said:

I adore the original William Church map from the original edition of Stormbringer; but it, like much of the rest of that edition, was not meticulously or rigorously checked for 100% accuracy to the published fiction at that point - and let's be honest, Moorcock himself even back then was not a writer interested in the minutiae of continuity... ...iirc it wasn't until Elric! (circa 1992) that Bakshaan got moved inland...

...something I've been making jokes about, both online and in published material, for decades... see for example the ERRATIC ILMIORAN SAILOR in the Old Hrolmar monograph, 😉

 

Here's the entry in its fullness - the Mandela effect at its finest? 

ERRATIC ILMIORAN SAILOR

This young man is renowned in the taverns of Quayside as a fine sailor, but not one you would want on your ship. He has sailed every sea in the Young Kingdoms and wants nothing more than to return to the Bakshaan of his youth: which he remembers as a bustling seaport rather than a rich, landlocked city at the junction of the Barlimm and Vador rivers. In a recent visit to Bakshaan he was tormented by other inconsistencies between the city he remembers and the actual city, including streets that were not quite as he remembered them and a family who claimed not to know him at all. He fled to Vilmir, and has since drifted towards Old Hrolmar, where he finds short stints of work in the harbour.

[Atgxtg]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:02 AM, Mugen said:

It's also worth saying that this comic book has a scenario by Julien Blondel, who was originally known as a RPG designer (he did some work for Nephilim and In Nomine, among other things). I guess he's more familiar with Chaosium books than Moorcock original publications.

Yeah, but that may or be not be relevant. I think what might have happened was that the Church map came out first and for awhile was the map, and everyone else built upon it, corrected it, and so on.

[Richard Watts]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:29 PM, NickMiddleton said:

I adore the original William Church map from the original edition of Stormbringer; but it, like much of the rest of that edition, was not meticulously or rigorously checked for 100% accuracy to the published fiction at that point - and let's be honest, Moorcock himself even back then was not a writer interested in the minutiae of continuity... ...iirc it wasn't until Elric! (circa 1992) that Bakshaan got moved inland...

...something I've been making jokes about, both online and in published material, for decades... see for example the ERRATIC ILMIORAN SAILOR in the Old Hrolmar monograph, 😉

 

From memory, I think I moved Bakshaan inland because A) in The Stealer of Souls it's described as being the richest city in the north-east, and B) because in Elric at the End of Time there's a description of Bakshaan being in the midst of (or at least at the edge of) a grassy plain. There are certainly no references to it being a major port or coastal city in Moorcock's stories that I know if to date (though I've yet to read The Citadel of Forgotten Myths, I confess, though it is on my reading pile).

 

And Nick, I do love your Erratic Ilmioran Sailor - a lovely in-game reference! 

[DreadDomain]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:02 PM, Mugen said:

It's also worth saying that this comic book has a scenario by Julien Blondel, who was originally known as a RPG designer (he did some work for Nephilim and In Nomine, among other things). I guess he's more familiar with Chaosium books than Moorcock original publications.

Are you talking about the 4 books Elric series published by Glénat between 2013 and 2021 (hopefully they will continue)? The book end map in there is way too dark to see anything so I suspect you refer to something else. 

On 5/25/2023 at 11:43 PM, Atgxtg said:

Yeah, but that may or be not be relevant. I think what might have happened was that the Church map came out first and for awhile was the map, and everyone else built upon it, corrected it, and so on.

The newest map for Mournblade sure looks like it is a based on the Church map. It's just much prettier.

58 minutes ago, Richard Watts said:

From memory, I think I moved Bakshaan inland because A) in The Stealer of Souls it's described as being the richest city in the north-east, and B) because in Elric at the End of Time there's a description of Bakshaan being in the midst of (or at least at the edge of) a grassy plain. There are certainly no references to it being a major port or coastal city in Moorcock's stories that I know if to date (though I've yet to read The Citadel of Forgotten Myths, I confess, though it is on my reading pile).

I don't think there is any reference to Bakshaan in Citadel.

[Mugen]

10 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Are you talking about the 4 books Elric series published by Glénat between 2013 and 2021 (hopefully they will continue)? The book end map in there is way too dark to see anything so I suspect you refer to something else. 

That's the same comic, but in a new edition from december 2022.

https://www.bedetheque.com/BD-Elric-Blondel-Cano-Recht-Poli-Telo-INT1-Cycle-premier-Melnibone-459084.html

It contains all 4 books, with bonus illustrations from other comic books and roleplaying games. The StormBringer art from Frank Brunner is here, alongside the french cover of Elric! and illustrations from Mike Mignola and others.

It contains a stand alone map which is printed with a dark brown background, but it's possible to read the places names. I could not find it on Internet.

They also released a Hawkmoon comic, so I think the Elric one was a success and other books will come after the first ones.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Mugen

[Atgxtg]

19 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

The newest map for Mournblade sure looks like it is a based on the Church map. It's just much prettier.

Well again, much like with a map of Europe, geographical features don't change much over 40 years, nor do the countries (usually). Even , the map of Hawkmoon's Europe is very recognizable. With the Young Kingdoms, I think that once Moorcock approved of a map, Church map or some decedent of it, it became the official map of the Young Kingdoms, and anything afterwards is probably going to look a lot like that unless Moorcock decides that something is wrong, or changes something retroactively.

Which is all fine with me, as it's a pretty decent map, and better than most fantasy world maps. I wish it included all the lands in that setting, but I doubt that will ever happen- at least not officially. 

 

 

[Nikoli]

Here’s a nice map. I can’t comment on its accuracy.

https://forum.profantasy.com/profile/gallery/6719/jmabbott/176

What do you think?

 

 

[DreadDomain]

5 hours ago, Nikoli said:

Here’s a nice map. I can’t comment on its accuracy.

https://forum.profantasy.com/profile/gallery/6719/jmabbott/176

What do you think?

 

 

I like it. It includes the Unknown East in a much better way that Elric of Melniboné rpg did!

[Atgxtg]

10 hours ago, Nikoli said:

Here’s a nice map. I can’t comment on its accuracy.

https://forum.profantasy.com/profile/gallery/6719/jmabbott/176

What do you think?

 

 

I like it. It's a really nice map. I don't see anything wrong about it, and the stuff that it adds in shows some thought and understanding of the cultures and geography of the Young Kingdoms. For instance, the Tarkesh coastline looks like a bunch of Scandinavian fjords. That's a nice touch.