Jump to content

Courtesy in publications


Malin

Recommended Posts

Alright, I'm a newly registered user, but I've lurked around here for a couple of years and read through the forums (yes, I am that person), so it already feels like home. However, I have never really felt the need to add anything due to being busy with my own writing, but now I am on my first vacation in years and have too much time to think about Runequest, so I have a question.

What kind of unwritten rules/common courtesy is there about publishing things through the Johnstown compendium when it comes to things set in the same setting as other supplements?

The reason why I'm asking is that I have been running a Runequest campaign set in Sun County (1615 onwards), based on the old Sun County/River of Cradles/Cults of Prax books, with the addition of the wonderful Sandheart supplements by Jonathan Webb and stuff scavenged from the Prax threads on this side. Being who I am (a game designer/writer who can never shut up), I produced a lot of handouts for my players (one of which was pretty much a complete Glorantha newbie) and started delving into bits I was missing from the content I had. This is mainly things like Yelmalio initiation rites, marriage traditions, food, clothing, architecture, and festivals. In short, the kind of cultural immersion I love about playing in Glorantha, which helps my players get into character. This is in addition to certain rules additions, like a politics and influence system (because the players are getting political).

So, as I mentioned, I am now on vacation, and after reading the Nochet supplement by Harald Smith, I woke up at 2 am one morning and started to turn my scattered handouts (25 000+ words) into a more complete cultural guide to Sun County.

I am not doing this to try to rewrite the setting, instead, I am trying to write about the things I miss. The original books are filled with stats, rules, characters, and adventures, but most of them (apart from Sandheart) seem to be written with the assumption that the players are strangers passing through, not people born in the place and trying to make a living there. I wanted to try to give the (sometimes maligned) Sun Domers some practical depth and culture to help new players make sense of Count lists and cult strictures, to know the rhythm of life and agriculture, and whatever minor thing my brain decides to research when it gets distracted. And yet, I worry about stepping on toes I might not even be noticing.

So far, I don't think there is much overlap other than the very broad ones of being set in the same place. I am planning to do thorough references in the Nochet style to show where I have got what facts I reference, and I plan to recommend said books in the intro. As I said, I see this as a companion piece (much like the Six Paths for Heortling gender roles), not as a rewrite or a replacement. Forum posts are an entirely different kettle of fish, not sure if those can or should be referenced, but I guess I don't need to elaborate on Praxian cheesemaking in this specific volume... (still my favorite forum post)

Is there anything else I need to consider?  (also, hi!)

  • Like 9
  • Helpful 1

☀️Sun County Apologist☀️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, Malin!

Please don’t worry about treading on anybody’s toes! Your Glorantha Will Vary, and I know that both @MOB (author of Sun County) and @Incendiary Pig (Jon Webb, creator of the Sandheart series) will be delighted to see a fresh take on Sun County. (As will I, for what that’s worth: my own snippets about women, folklore, etc., are in the Manifesto.)

If you say a few kind words about the giants whose shoulders you’re standing on in a foreword, or on the credits page, or whatever, you’ve gone beyond what’s strictly necessary (although I’d always advise people to give both credit and thanks widely and generously, because what harm has common courtesy ever done?).

You are explicitly permitted to use anything from any Chaosium or Moon Design publication - which includes all of the RuneQuest Classics, Avalon Hill’s Gloranthan books and boxes, the Gloranthan Classics, the HeroQuestWorldWars lines, the modern RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha line and anything published on the Jonstown Compendium - as inspirations for your own Gloranthan works.

You aren’t allowed to substantially quote from (or rephrase, rework, etc.) those prior works, without permission, but you can certainly reference them, build on them, do your own original thing with named characters, places, deities, etc. found in them.

And if you ask for permission to quote or paraphrase something, you might just get it!

  • Like 7
  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For forum posts, if anybody has shared their ideas in public (without hemming them around with weird legalese), you can of course use them as inputs to your own creative process, but you can’t simply cut’n’paste their wording (unless you ask for and receive permission), and you ought to give credit anyway. (Folk wouldn’t have shared their ideas in public if they didn’t want other people to be influenced by them, right?)

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You shouldn’t use any stuff that you only find in Mongoose RuneQuest books, because they aren’t Chaosium / Moon Design property. We can’t give you permission to quote that, it’s not our original IP. Best avoided.

If your community content publication uses game rules, they should be from RuneQuest Classic (RQ2), modern RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha, the “HeroQuest Glorantha” implementation of what we now call QuestWorlds, or 13th Age Glorantha. It can’t use rules from Avalon Hill RQ3 (because Chaosium won’t let you - there’s a narrow exception for monster stats), or from Mongoose RuneQuest/ “Legend,” or the Design Mechanism’s RQ6/ “Mythras” (because Chaosium can’t let you, as that’s not our stuff).

Obviously you can use the Stafford Library books, the old board wargames, the systemless Guide and Sourcebook, etc. to your heart’s content (short of quoting or paraphrasing, unless you get permission first).

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never actually got around to buying any of the Mongoose stuff, so I think I'm safe there. What rules there will be, is modern Runequest, as that's what we're running our campaign in. And oh boy, I do not want to mess with Avalon Hill 😅

90% of it will be system neutral (except the influence/politic system).

(and thanks for linking your  manifesto, it's turned out to be an interesting read and we agree on a lot of things)

  • Like 2

☀️Sun County Apologist☀️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Malin said:

Is there anything else I need to consider?  (also, hi!)

As Nick says, thanking people is always good; I also try to add a Sources list of publications, whether official or Jonstown Compendium.

My current project includes this:

Screenshot 2023-08-04 184627.png

Edited by M Helsdon
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Malin said:

and after reading the Nochet supplement by Harald Smith, I woke up at 2 am one morning and started to turn my scattered handouts (25 000+ words) into a more complete cultural guide to Sun County.

Glad to hear it was inspirational for you! 🙂 

I can't really add much to what Nick has already noted. 

1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

You are explicitly permitted to use anything from any Chaosium or Moon Design publication - which includes all of the RuneQuest Classics, Avalon Hill’s Gloranthan books and boxes, the Gloranthan Classics, the HeroQuestWorldWars lines, the modern RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha line and anything published on the Jonstown Compendium - as inspirations for your own Gloranthan works.

I believe this includes particular section types/styles. So, if for instance you like the Cast of Characters style and the Best Friend/Worst Foe/... content I did for Nochet, you could do something similar for Sun County. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

I believe this includes particular section types/styles. So, if for instance you like the Cast of Characters style and the Best Friend/Worst Foe/... content I did for Nochet, you could do something similar for Sun County. 

I was indeed considering asking permission to do that (with attribution, of course) because it is a brilliant means of immersion and just showing the breadth of characters that can exist in a setting. 💚

  • Like 2

☀️Sun County Apologist☀️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Drew kindly let us use his Runic personality notation format from Six Seasons in Sartar in Citizens of the Lunar Empire. (I kinda wish Chaosium would start using it in “proper” publications, because it’s so handy!)

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Drew kindly let us use his Runic personality notation format from Six Seasons in Sartar in Citizens of the Lunar Empire. (I kinda wish Chaosium would start using it in “proper” publications, because it’s so handy!)

It really is, I have borrowed that for all my npc's as well (though I doubt there will be any in that detail in this book), it is such a neat way to describe a character.

  • Like 1

☀️Sun County Apologist☀️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Malin,

I believe most people who have published a setting (a recent example of which is Harald Smith's Nochet, Queen of Cities), would be  happy if someone started publishing adventures set there and referencing his book.  He wrote it for people to play in.   I'd say try not to kill off his named NPCs.  Just don't lift blocks of text or maps from it without permission and giving credit.

I know for sure that if you write an adventure starting from the inn described in Caravanserai, in either of the  locations I suggested for GMs to use or a different one, I would be very happy if you published it.  Just give credit up front in the vicinity of the Chaosium logo, as you see examples in existing JC publications. 

If you have specific non-hypothetical questions on Chaosium policy, relevant to something you are actually writing for publication, then message Nick Brooke, community ambassador.  He does answer.  He is helpful, and if it needs a permission from someone at Chaosium he will say who it is and possibly act as an intermediary.

These people want you to succeed in publishing RQiG adventures.

  • Like 3
  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Malin said:

What kind of unwritten rules/common courtesy is there about publishing things through the Johnstown compendium when it comes to things set in the same setting as other supplements?

Don't wholesale copy things from other supplements?

That's about all I can think of.

Nick recently clarified, and again in this thread, that people can use elements of any Chaosium RuneQuest publication in any Jonstown Compendium supplement, which includes any Jonstown Compendium supplement. So, someone could use a monster from Monster of the Month, for example, or could mention the Spiderlings from Spider Woods. It might be worth referencing them in the Credits section, perhaps, as a courtesy.

Personally, I would love other people to write about Dorastor, or HeroQuesting, as they are areas that need multiple authors.

As for Sun County, there is a lot of it and I can see benefits of a campaign pack set there, so it would be good to see your material published.

  • Like 2

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its great to develop both official and ”non-official” supplements. I run a Six Seasons- based campaign and have a very ”political” group of players and wanted some intrigue and powerplay among the Haraborn. So I created some bloodlines based on the ”founding fathers” of the clan so that different coalitions and loyalties would be logical. I also distributed the NPCs and steads among the different bloodlines.

But I would never publish anything of this without the consent of Andrew Logan Montgomery who was created and written the books about the Haraborn. But the bloodlines exists at ”my” gaming table.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

Personally, I would love other people to write about Dorastor, or HeroQuesting, as they are areas that need multiple authors.

I do have heroquest rules since I absolutely love that part of the game and it's an intrinsic part of it for me (we played the quest for the white bull in our campaign), but I am not sure how publishable those will be since they are second-guessed and cobbled together from official comments and play. Hopefully the real ones will come soon...

  • Like 2

☀️Sun County Apologist☀️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Malin said:

I am not sure how publishable those will be since they are second-guessed and cobbled together from official comments and play.

I wouldn’t worry about what Chaosium may or may not publish in the future — currently, yours may be more real than theirs, and I suspect heroquesting rules will be very much a matter of taste: people will want a menu to choose from.

  • Like 2
  • Helpful 1

NOTORIOUS VØID CULTIST

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/4/2023 at 5:21 PM, Malin said:

I wanted to try to give the (sometimes maligned) Sun Domers some practical depth and culture to help new players make sense of Count lists and cult strictures, to know the rhythm of life and agriculture, and whatever minor thing my brain decides to research when it gets distracted. And yet, I worry about stepping on toes I might not even be noticing.

If it helps, you have my complete blessing to use or ignore anything I've ever written about Sun County - the motherlode is Sun County Backgrounds in Sandheart Vol. 1.

If you want to quote bits of that article, borrow any epithets that are only found there (Gold, Bronze & Copper Lords, the Red Count, etc.), work the miraculous Summer of Love into your agrarian sociological model, etc., I'd be delighted!

If you want to quote lots of that article verbatim or rework it somehow, just let me know: I can provide editable docs on request.

Two other great sources are the Secret History of Sun County (on Jane Williams' website) and MOB's thread Some notes on the Cradle aftermath...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

If it helps, you have my complete blessing to use or ignore anything I've ever written about Sun County - the motherlode is Sun County Backgrounds in Sandheart Vol. 1.

If you want to quote bits of that article, borrow any epithets that are only found there (Gold, Bronze & Copper Lords, the Red Count, etc.), work the miraculous Summer of Love into your agrarian sociological model, etc., I'd be delighted!

If you want to quote lots of that article verbatim or rework it somehow, just let me know: I can provide editable docs on request.

Two other great sources are the Secret History of Sun County (on Jane Williams' website) and MOB's thread Some notes on the Cradle aftermath...

Thank you! A lot of your stuff is the basis of my writing! That was what got my brain going in the first place. I don't have direct quotes, but I am certainly using the terms and ideas. I am also heavily inspired by MOB's posts, but won't get to that point since the timescale is around 1613-1620 for this one as that's the period I'm running my campaign in so far. Secret History of sun county had some interesting ideas, but there mine diverge a bit more. There are seeds in there though.

Yep, I've been scouring Sun County material from the web for a long time, I might be a slight gloranthophiliac...

  • Like 2

☀️Sun County Apologist☀️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...

Life and Traditions Under the Sun Dome (still a work-in-progress title) has now passed 150 000 words, and I'm sat here trying to assemble inspiration images for our cover artist. Finally folded and added updates so it's also easy to use in the 1625+ timeline. Loving this project, but will hate having to layout it. Haven't done that since the late nineties... 🙃...

Still so stuck on what to do about family history. I've not touched on it yet, since I love the one included in Sandheart and plugs that module for those things, but now that there's also a 1625 option it would be a good idea to have an updated one to cover those interesting ten years. Ugh. Not sure what to do about that yet, I suppose that's always the problem you run into when you try to make things compatible across other supplements.

  • Like 4

☀️Sun County Apologist☀️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Malin said:

I've not touched on it yet, since I love the one included in Sandheart and plugs that module for those things, but now that there's also a 1625 option it would be a good idea to have an updated one to cover those interesting ten years. Ugh. Not sure what to do about that yet, I suppose that's always the problem you run into when you try to make things compatible across other supplements.

The approach I ended up using in the Nochet: Adventurer's Guide was to put together a Quick Adventurer Background (which I thought might be a reasonable approach for those not familiar with Glorantha). One table of main entries with sub-options for each entry - gets a reasonable range of results for a group of PC's without requiring rolls for lots of years (and getting "a normal year" results).

  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ask @MOB if you can leverage major events appearing in his fiction, from after the Cradle through to Moonbroth. And if you’re doing a Sun County book and want help with layout, just let me know: I’d be delighted to lend a hand.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...