MRQII is now "wayfarer"

[Smoking Frog]

I wanted to avoid players having to do all of that during the game though as my group are of somewhat mixed mathematical ability and some people just struggle with it. To get around it I just added in sections on my character sheet for players to enter their special, crit and fumble scores so they've always got the info there in front of them.

Implementing an elegant solution that perfect suits the particular needs of your particular players strikes me as utterly PERVERSE! If they are too short for the bed, mercilessly stretch them; if too tall, chop off their legs! Remember: people are made for the bed, not the bed for the people!

Wait, forget all that. I had just critically failed a sanity check.

[daddystabz]

hehe

[icebrand]

Not as simple as you put it. In MRQII criticals are 10% and you ALWAYS round up, whereas in AHRQIII, you round up if it's 0.5 or higher, or down if it's lower.

For example, let's say you have a 37% skill, OK? In MRQII, your critical is 4 (3.7, you round up), easy. So, in AHRQIII, you'd get 2 for a critical, and 8 for a special, wouldn't you? NO. The critical is 2 ( 1.85, you round up), true, but the special is 7 (7.4, you round down). It's more intuitive in MRQII.

For a special, just use the tens x2 and discard the units if 1-4, add +1 if 5-9 (ie: 147: 14*2+1; 143: 14*2)

For a critical, do it the other way round

So, you're happy calculating the special success chances for 33%, 77% and 123%? No cheating. Let me know how many seconds it took you to calculate them.

About half a second each (maybe 2 seconds the 3 of them?)

33 = 3*2 = 6

77 = 7*2 = 14 +1 (cause the unit is 5+)

123 = 24 = 12*2

EASY AS PIE!!!

I'm curious though that if I dump special success from my BRP games and adopt MRQII's levels of success instead, with 10% crits and all, if it will mess up balance at all in BRP.

We use "easy specials" (like above) and "easy 10% crits". Everything works fine (but again, all chars are well over 100% fighting skill, and theres not much chance to hit people.

Also, outside melee combat there's no specials.

Edited June 7, 2011 by icebrand

[icebrand]

also delete ^^

Edited June 7, 2011 by icebrand

[icebrand]

delete plz

[Narl]

For a special, just use the tens x2 and discard the units if 1-4, add +1 if 5-9 (ie: 147: 14*2+1; 143: 14*2)

For a critical, do it the other way round

About half a second each (maybe 2 seconds the 3 of them?)

33 = 3*2 = 6

77 = 7*2 = 14 +1 (cause the unit is 5+)

123 = 24 = 12*2

EASY AS PIE!!!

We use "easy specials" (like above) and "easy 10% crits". Everything works fine (but again, all chars are well over 100% fighting skill, and theres not much chance to hit people.

Also, outside melee combat there's no specials.

Are these calculations for a house rule? They don't work with BRP rules as written (normal rounding). Nor do they match with the chart in the book (round up).

For example, 123 skill would give a Special on a 24 or less by your calculation method, while in truth is is a 25 or less for a special (.2 x 123 = 24.6 which rounds up to 25).

[Narl]

But, guys... no rounding is necessary. There's no need to find the exact special/critical chances by dividing the skill. A simpler way is to multiply the number rolled by 5 (or 20) - if the result is less than the skill, then it's a special (or critical)...

That doesn't come out accurately either (unless your house rule is to round everything down). If I have a skill 30, I should Critical on a 2 or less (.05 x 30 = 1.5 rounded to 2). By the above method, if I roll a 2, multiply it by 20, I get 40, which is not under my skill.

I don't believe there are actually any shortcuts to this (besides taking 10% and either doubling or halving it, leaving all the decimals, and rounding according to however you play). Or you can use a chart but some of the more mathy people at the table might give you a hard time.

[icebrand]

Not as simple as you put it. In MRQII criticals are 10% and you ALWAYS round up, whereas in AHRQIII, you round up if it's 0.5 or higher, or down if it's lower.

For example, let's say you have a 37% skill, OK? In MRQII, your critical is 4 (3.7, you round up), easy. So, in AHRQIII, you'd get 2 for a critical, and 8 for a special, wouldn't you? NO. The critical is 2 ( 1.85, you round up), true, but the special is 7 (7.4, you round down). It's more intuitive in MRQII.

Are these calculations for a house rule? They don't work with BRP rules as written (normal rounding). Nor do they match with the chart in the book (round up).

For example, 123 skill would give a Special on a 24 or less by your calculation method, while in truth is is a 25 or less for a special (.2 x 123 = 24.6 which rounds up to 25).

The crit calc is for a house rule, and the special calc is modified for our crit. If you want a AH (or BRP? im confused now!) you must use 3-8 instead of 5 to round the special; at least, 8 gives you 20% of whatever skill chance you have rounded up, as opposed to 5, which gives you the 20% of the rounded up skill.

Expample (maybe i wasnt clear enough). The only difference are numbers between 8 and 3; to apply my method to BRP as is, adjust the skill accordingly or just add +1 if beween 3-7 or +2 if 8-+. 0-3 is +0.

Thus, 77% would be 14+1 = 15 (15.4), while 78 would be 14+2 = 16 (15.6). You get 16 till 82 (80-82 is just 8*2) and 83-87 adds +1 so you have 17. At 88 it gets +2 again.

Overall, my calculation is WAY easier, and grants the same special spread, only with a small difference (basically, 20% of results "move" either +1/-1, but the spread is the same, and its WAY easier).

[Narl]

The crit calc is for a house rule, and the special calc is modified for our crit.

Okay, thanks for clarifying that it is for a house rule. Sorry to be nitpicking, but I've spent too much time thinking about this sort of thing -- I play BRP with my kids (ages 6-11) and I'm always looking for easy methods and shortcuts. They like using a chart and it is the best method I have found for them that preserves specials and criticals.

I'm in the process of making them a character sheet that has the chart right on it next to their skills. I'm going with the always round up method since it makes for a shorter chart.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Narl

[icebrand]

Okay, thanks for clarifying that it is for a house rule. Sorry to be nitpicking, but I've spent too much time thinking about this sort of thing -- I play BRP with my kids (ages 6-11) and I'm always looking for easy methods and shortcuts. They like using a chart and it is the best method I have found for them that preserves specials and criticals.

I'm in the process of making them a character sheet that has the chart right on it next to their skills. I'm going with the always round up method since it makes for a shorter chart.

Use my shorcut then!!! the ONLY difference is that x0-x3 will get a +1, and x8-x9 will get a -1 to special chance. Its the exact same otherwise.

You CAN bother adjusting, but i see no gain at all for the extra complication.

[KingSkin]

Narl, why not modifiy their character sheets to include that info already? Unless you're using it to subtly get them using maths it makes more sense to go for that sort of shortcut rather than the chart.

[icebrand]

Narl, why not modifiy their character sheets to include that info already? Unless you're using it to subtly get them using maths it makes more sense to go for that sort of shortcut rather than the chart.

Erm, its faster to calculate it than find it on a table, even if the table is on the char sheet?

[KingSkin]

I'm not talking about calculating it during the game. I'm talking about adding boxes next to each skill for Crits, Specials and Fumbles and then filling the boxes in before you play. It means a bit more admin at the front end but saves time during the game. Personally I wouldn't put the table on a character sheet because it'll take up too much space.

[daddystabz]

This is why I prefer MRQII's way to do it. No Special Success bullcrap and crits are always at 10%. Even the mathematically challenged player I play with regularly has no problem with calculating 10% of a number.

[Mankcam]

Yes, MRQ2 is certainly quite simple with a straightforward 10% Critical Success, a logical advancement in the rules I guess.

But I never had an issue with a player not being able to calculate a 20% Special Success either. It was also fairly easy to actually jot down the Crit chance alongside the skill, such as '03/60%' for a 60% skill that crits on an 03 or less. No biggie really, just it's just down to personal taste, but I guess MRQ2 feels much 'cleaner' in this regard.

[deleriad]

Although figures on a character sheet don't allow for changes during play. BRP tends to have a lot of situational modifiers and so on that make it relatively common for the skill used to change, e.g multiple parries. FREX, parry skill 63, special chance 13. Second parry of the round (-30) rolls 7. Time to do the maths again. I've found in the past that though it was common practice to put special chances on character sheets that it was not as helpful as I hoped and, sometimes, caused problems. E.g. players would look at the special chance and forget that they had to modify it so you would get me querying it.As in the example above. Player rolls a 12 and says "special parry!" I would then end up starting to figure out what that meant then remember that he had already parried once so 12 would look high for a special. So I would say "are you sure?" and after a bit of to-ing and fro-ing we would realise that in fact it wasn't a special because of the modifier but of course the player was so used to seeing 13 as a special that he would instantly spot it on the dice.

[Atgxtg]

I'm not talking about calculating it during the game. I'm talking about adding boxes next to each skill for Crits, Specials and Fumbles and then filling the boxes in before you play. It means a bit more admin at the front end but saves time during the game. Personally I wouldn't put the table on a character sheet because it'll take up too much space.

I don't think the benefits would be worth it. There are often modfiers to the skills that would alter the chances of crtical, special, and fumbles.

[KingSkin]

Yeah but those modifiers are usually things like -10, -20 etc which is easy to figure out on the fly. Certainly easier than dividing 73 by 5.

Or for Difficult and Easy rolls it's just halfing and doubling your numbers which is piss easy.

[PhilHibbs]

Yeah but those modifiers are usually things like -10, -20 etc which is easy to figure out on the fly. Certainly easier than dividing 73 by 5.

Or for Difficult and Easy rolls it's just halfing and doubling your numbers which is piss easy.

If I have a skill of 75% with a 4% crit chance, and I take a -10% penalty, what is my crit chance? If I have 33% skill with a 2% crit chance, and I double it to 66%, then do I have 4% crit chance?

[icebrand]

If I have a skill of 75% with a 4% crit chance, and I take a -10% penalty, what is my crit chance? If I have 33% skill with a 2% crit chance, and I double it to 66%, then do I have 4% crit chance?

75-10 = 65. 6.5/2 = 3.75 => 4%. We don't use 5% crits, so its not an issue. For us 71-79% is 7 and 61-69% is 6. Extra easy.

And for B, no, of course not, 66 = 6.6/2 = 3.3 => 3%.

To calculate CRITS "the BRP WAY":

1- Divide your skill by 2 (add 1 if you got an even number, is "easier" -i would even say way easier- for math challenged people and wields the same result)

2- Discard your units if they are 0-4. Discard the units and add 1 to the result if they are 5-9

3- THERE YOU HAVE!!! Your crit rate!!! Now go amaze your players!!!

THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!

Example:

66 = 66/2 = 33. Discard units. 3 crit!!!

123 = 124/2 = 62. Discard units. CRIT IS 6!

421 = 422/2 = 211, Discard units. CRIT IS 21!

77 = 78/2 = 37. Units are over 5! Add 1!!! CRIT IS 4!

32 = 16 = 2%

Easy as pie huh? For specials do the same; just multiply by 2!

[PhilHibbs]

To calculate CRITS "the BRP WAY":

1- Divide your skill by 2 (add 1 if you got an even number, is "easier" -i would even say way easier- for math challenged people and wields the same result)

2- Discard your units if they are 0-4. Discard the units and add 1 to the result if they are 5-9

3- THERE YOU HAVE!!! Your crit rate!!! Now go amaze your players!!!

THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!

That's awful. Fine for you, if you find that easy to remember, then great. I think it's a ridiculous thing to ask players to do.

[daddystabz]

This makes my point better than I could as to why I love 10% crits outright, lol.

75-10 = 65. 6.5/2 = 3.75 => 4%. We don't use 5% crits, so its not an issue. For us 71-79% is 7 and 61-69% is 6. Extra easy.

And for B, no, of course not, 66 = 6.6/2 = 3.3 => 3%.

To calculate CRITS "the BRP WAY":

1- Divide your skill by 2 (add 1 if you got an even number, is "easier" -i would even say way easier- for math challenged people and wields the same result)

2- Discard your units if they are 0-4. Discard the units and add 1 to the result if they are 5-9

3- THERE YOU HAVE!!! Your crit rate!!! Now go amaze your players!!!

THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!

Example:

66 = 66/2 = 33. Discard units. 3 crit!!!

123 = 124/2 = 62. Discard units. CRIT IS 6!

421 = 422/2 = 211, Discard units. CRIT IS 21!

77 = 78/2 = 37. Units are over 5! Add 1!!! CRIT IS 4!

32 = 16 = 2%

Easy as pie huh? For specials do the same; just multiply by 2!

[frogspawner]

For goodness sake! You don't need to calculate critical/special thresholds or do any rounding! Just multiply your roll by 5 (or 20) and if it's less-than-or-equal-to the skill% then it's a special (or critical)...

(OK, this probably doesn't match the official break-points - but since they're not consistent anyway, what the heck?)

[icebrand]

For goodness sake! You don't need to calculate critical/special thresholds or do any rounding! Just multiply your roll by 5 (or 20) and if it's less-than-or-equal-to the skill% then it's a special (or critical)...

(OK, this probably doesn't match the official break-points - but since they're not consistent anyway, what the heck?)

They cant divide or multiply by 2... What makes you think they can multiply by 20? (i HOPE 5 is fine).

Bottom Line: BRP is not for the faint of math!!! ;) .

PS: I stand corrected, im preety sure they can, they just feel its too much hassle.

[famouswolf]

Snort.

Just use 10% critical and write stat roll percentages down.

Math? Anybody can do grammar school arithmetic. Can't they?