Axe Hall

[Erol of Backford]

So I looked through all the old zines, web sites, books and this forum.

There really isn't much on Axe Hall.

I mean what BG worshipper wouldn't want to go on a pilgrimage from Nochet to Axe Hall?

All we know is its on top this 2,000' high plateau with some vegetation, trollkin and black sand swirling around.

Does anyone have some good info or a link to an article with more?

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[Malin]

I wish I had, I have scoured everything I can find and I haven't seen (or remembered) anything substantial. So I will keep a look on this thread too, sooner or later our campaign will end up there...

[Erol of Backford]

So looking and thinking more parts of the Axe Hall picture take form and color:

Jaja had suggested in another thread one might use the Redstone Caverns from TrollPak as a potential source of inspiration for what's under the Plateau but for Axe Hall to survive and prosper they must get along with the trolls and or trollkin pretty well, 26,000 trollkin in and on the Plateau, I think Mr. Richard noted? That is unless the trolls are just piss scared of the ax maidens, their alligator porcupine dogs and stay away?

Guessing there would be some Argan Argar traders, lots of trollkin servants or slaves. Maybe they are free trollkin like those with Gonn Orta.

Of course there would be many Nakasa guard dog/alligator/hedgehog/lion demon things. Hairy, striped, spotted with reddish scales and croco heads. With sharp pointy teeth like the rabbit from the Quest for the Holy Grail. Don't forget the needle quills.. and the roar that makes men and trolls pee their pants... 

Axe Hall is Babeester Gor's biggest holy place. She there struck down Ovodaka there but was it on the God's Plane or the actual Shadow Plateau in God's Time?

Not much on this Ovodaka character, they are the Last Guardian, a demon god of death, underworld and darkness, they get Babeester Gor's victim's who go under the God's World hell? Makes me think there are torture chambers in the temple undercity where men scream out in terror as parts of their bodies are slowly cut and peeled away...

I would hope that one of the spells she gets from Orlanth would be Command Air Elemental and or Fly as it'd be a real biyatch to get up to the top of the plateau.

There may be a secret river, branch of the Styx that flows upstream as the Syphon but inside the Plateau to the top which then flows off in the nice waterfall at the west side visible from Nochet.

When the wind is cold in storm season there might be snow up there as the dew point would be low but do temperatures get down to 32 if that is freezing in Glorantha?

What does it look like warrior women who don't hate men just ones who abuse women and do things to Earth temples...

Would the temple be part or mostly submerged which seems to be the case with a lot of places inside the Plateau.

Just guessing the Shadow Plateau is about 2,000' above the surrounding areas base on contours, the site is shown as a ruin on the AAA map but its described as the largest Babeester Gor temple...

I am curious if there are male prostitutes there, even troll ones? There is some evidence that Naimless had a few troll lovers, possibly 2 at once, not sure where I read this but it was insinuated IIRC...

The detailed Shadow Plateau map posted by Mr. Richard is from: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-shadow-plateau/

I wonder if there is a Shadow Plateau Gazetteer out there somewhere? 

A pic of the lava flow near Cedar Breaks, which if you haven't seen, is worth stopping at to look down into if you are near Zion... its about as deep as the Shadow Plateau is high.

The great partial pic of the western side of the Shadow Plateau (GtG p.656)shows some towns and villages, one of which might be Valadon? A detail zoom shows the throne and likely to the right, looks like ruins... maybe a few taller structures and some sort of mound?

Do any potions made from vanquished foes blood act like strength or healing, simple energy drinks?

Does the obsidian dust form a clay which could be Orlanthi woad with magical properties?

There must be a few Tricksters there who are looking for a cheap date, take advantage of the tipsy Babeester Gor babes?

I bet there is a trollish grog shop up there either in or next to Axe Hall to let the maidens relax a bit or to simple have a night cap after a hard days work with their axes?

  

  

 

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

for what's under the Plateau but for Axe Hall to survive and prosper they must get along with the trolls and or trollkin pretty well, 26,000 trollkin in and on the Plateau

Remember to look at the original Trollpak p.33 for the Shadow Plateau and surrounding area:

"The Shadow Plateau is also called the Haunted Lands, for there are still many ghosts and other troubles there. Many troubles are from the trolls, which still inhabit the place with little of ill consequence, and who prey upon humans passing through. There are also unusual sporadic winds sending torn pieces of life ghosting across the land, attacking anything in their paths. Sometimes a black sandstorm rises from the black earth and goes swirling about, dashing everything in its path and pelting all with angry pellets. And a few specific, avenging spirits live there too, hateful against special foes. Atop the plateau are many trees and brush, and like all of this coast, it is quite seasonal. Trolls devour much of the growth, and sometimes they have plagues of idiot trollkin which will denude a patch of ground to the dirt with no regard for its regrowth. But there are still many wild animals, and except for the spirits, trolls, and other evil troubles it would be a pleasant place to live."

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Guessing there would be some Argan Argar traders, lots of trollkin servants or slaves.

Yes.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Axe Hall is Babeester Gor's biggest holy place. She there struck down Ovodaka there but was it on the God's Plane or the actual Shadow Plateau in God's Time?

It's a myth of the Great Darkness, which means that Axe Hall existed as part of the Palace of Black Glass, long predating when Belintar broke the palace to leave the Shadow Plateau.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I would hope that one of the spells she gets from Orlanth would be Command Air Elemental and or Fly as it'd be a real biyatch to get up to the top of the plateau.

She's an Earth Goddess - tunnels, caverns, and stairs to get there.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Would the temple be part or mostly submerged which seems to be the case with a lot of places inside the Plateau.

Typical Earth temple - there's above and below ground components, I'd guess largely equal. There will be some great crack in the rock near there were her axe struck Ovodaka.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Does the obsidian dust form a clay which could be Orlanthi woad with magical properties?

Woad is from the plant of the same name and is blue in color. 

Would the dust form a clay? Why not, but likely either black or ashen grey when mixed with fat or blood.

 

[Erol of Backford]

59 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Shadow Plateau is also called the Haunted Lands

Yes, from the original map, no plateau at all... just a few hills. Who didn't use that in the 1980's games.

[g33k]

14 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

... for Axe Hall to survive and prosper they must get along with the trolls and or trollkin pretty well, 26,000 trollkin in and on the Plateau, I think Mr. Richard noted? That is unless the trolls are just piss scared of the ax maidens, their alligator porcupine dogs and stay away?

...

This is an issue that has low-key puzzled me for a long, long time...  B.Gor is a human-centric cult (with a substantial Aldryami section!!!) ... whose chief temple exists in an entirely Troll-dominated area, beyond any hope of support or reinforcement from outside.  In CoR:EG I see: "... she is no foe of the Dark, for all recognize her own tendencies towards the deeds of Darkness," so Trolls aren't a special enemy of hers... but Elves (Aldrya temples & priestesses) are specially protected, so it looks like there should be some Trollish resentment/antipathay.

@Jeff -- any enlightenment available?  Why do the Trolls tolerate Axe Hall atop the Shadow Plateau?
 

 

n.b. her cult brews beer, I don't expect they need a "Trollish grog-shop" (blood-beer, fwiw).

I do not believe simple "obsidian dust" can be turned into clay; it needs other components.

Edited September 21, 2023 by g33k

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

B.Gor is a human-centric cult (with a substantial Aldryami section!!!) ... whose chief temple exists in an entirely Troll-dominated area, beyond any hope of support or reinforcement from outside.

I think you have to keep in mind two key aspects:

First, Argan Argar married Esrola and raised her throne upon the Palace of Black Glass (and that is still there). The Shadow Plateau is the center of the Shadowlands and the Kitori (who are a mix of trolls and humans - not all or just trolls).

Second, where/how the humans of Nochet survived the Great Darkness - Kimantor (i.e. the Only Old One) brought them to the Palace of Black Glass and sheltered them there. 

Babeester Gor would thus protect the Palace of Black Glass (it is part of the Earth, sacred to Esrola, and sheltered Earth-worshipping humans).  Axe Hall would have been raised there to indicate BG was protecting the place from those who would assail any within. 

Also, let's consider the myth of Ovodaka (from Heortling Mythology): "Babeester Gor killed all of her foes with her great axe until at last she faced Ovodaka, the Last Guardian, who held all of the goddesses prisoner. Babeester Gor let Ovodaka kill her. She then came back to life by drinking her own blood and killed Ovodaka."

This myth sees BG freeing the Earth Goddesses from their prison deep within the Earth/Hell. That may well be in the basements of the Palace of Black Glass, and the Earth Goddesses make their return then from/through Axe Hall back to the world (where the Palace is a cognate for the Spike within Time). 

[Joerg]

Looks like there used to be quite a few Kitori axe maidens before the surface of the Shadow Plateau was showered in shards of volcanic glass by Belintar. Some "Man of the Arans" style farming might still be possible between the wreckage, if there are any temple-adjacent folks willing to try.

[Erol of Backford]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Kitori axe maidens

Female Great Troll Axe Maidens, bad ass for sure.

[Joerg]

32 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Female Great Troll Axe Maidens, bad ass for sure.

rather Earth, Storm and Darkness-worshiping Kitori humans.

[g33k]

4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I think you have to keep in mind two key aspects:

First, Argan Argar married Esrola and raised her throne upon the Palace of Black Glass (and that is still there). The Shadow Plateau is the center of the Shadowlands and the Kitori (who are a mix of trolls and humans - not all or just trolls).

Second, where/how the humans of Nochet survived the Great Darkness - Kimantor (i.e. the Only Old One) brought them to the Palace of Black Glass and sheltered them there. 

Babeester Gor would thus protect the Palace of Black Glass (it is part of the Earth, sacred to Esrola, and sheltered Earth-worshipping humans).  Axe Hall would have been raised there to indicate BG was protecting the place from those who would assail any within.

...

I'm not seeing it.
There is some history there, via AA & the OOO.

But AFAIK the Palace of Black Glass is not, in fact, an Earth-worship site.
There are no Earth temples there, nor Earth priestesses.
Nothing within BG's remit.

Now... I'll admit I can see the argument as to why the Babeester Gori might be willing to offer protection anyhow:  the place sheltered many during the Darkness; it is a deed worth remembering and honoring for the rest of Time.  And, of course, there is the issue that Axe Hall has a serious claim to be the site of Babs' defeat of Ovodaka'

My issue is:  why do the Trolls  allow this?
Babs is heavily human-centric (no love lost).
Despite having some "Darkness" to her deeds, Babs' runes are  and  ... without any identity with  
Finally (and worst of all, from Uz' POV)  Babs is one of the chief war-deities of the Aldryami.
Dafuq is Babs doing in Troll territory??!?

I could see Axe Hall as an ancient relic from the Darkness, a place sacred to both Babs and Argan Argar, a site of pilgrimage for the B.Gori which the Trolls allow because of that shared history & mutual respect for the era and the shared myths.

Quote

Also, let's consider the myth of Ovodaka

...

This myth sees BG freeing the Earth Goddesses from their prison deep within the Earth/Hell. That may well be in the basements of the Palace of Black Glass, and the Earth Goddesses make their return then from/through Axe Hall back to the world (where the Palace is a cognate for the Spike within Time).

Again, this looks to me better-suited (from the mythology) as a destination for a pilgrimage.
As a major active temple, with much coming-and-going... notsomuch, honestly.
How could the Uz trust a large permanent troop of those militant elf-lovers??!?

Edited September 21, 2023 by g33k
myth (of course)

[Erol of Backford]

12 minutes ago, g33k said:

why do the Trolls  allow this

They dig human woman? Again Naimless had troll friends...

12 minutes ago, g33k said:

I could see Axe Hall as an ancient relic from the Darkness, a place sacred to both Babs and Argan Argar, a site of pilgrimage for the B.Gori which the Trolls allow because of that shared history & mutual respect for the era and the shared myths.

Does BG forbid non humans to join? Maybe there are some troll females in the ranks as most troll warriors, that I've seen are males, possibly a female troll BG initiate would be a fun change?

12 minutes ago, g33k said:

As a main, active temple, with much coming-and-going... notsomuch, honestly.
How could they trust a large permanent troop of those militant elf-lovers??!?

I agree to the less coming and going as who wants to do a 2.000' elevation change to say hello? That is unless there is some sort of magic boat that climbs falls or a river that is a branch of the Styx the flows upstream to the top?

Why do people stay in a relationship that really isn't good for them?

Edited September 21, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[g33k]

33 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

They dig human woman? Again Naimless had troll friends...

I don't think this is supported... Naimless' "troll friends" afaik only ever got a mention in 'zine format; and only in a context one could hold to be "scandalous rumors spread by haters."  Moreover:  even if it was fully canonical, it's a lone datum, speaking to a few specific individuals.  I don't think anything of the sort is mentioned elsewhere (unless you want to count Big O's dalliance with KL, and the resulting Crashing Noise).

33 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

... Does BG forbid non humans to join? Maybe there are some trolls in the ranks and most troll warriors, that I've seen are males, possibly a female troll BG initiate would be a fun change?  ...

From a game-play perspective, I could see a Troll joining BG, sure.  As a GM, I admit I'd be a bit suspicious of munchkinism.  But, in general, it's a viable in-world idea.  Note though that there isn't really a good reason for most Troll women to seek BG -- they're perfectly at home as warriors of KL.  Karrg's Sons is specifically for the fighty boys, who are limited within the matriarchal KL cult (I don't think ZZ even cares about gender -- if you're strong enough, cunning enough, violent enough, you're welcome).  I would think a (female) Troll with stronger  than  might be drawn to BG.

However, I don't see how one (or even a few) B.G. Uz characters justify having such a major Elf-friend Earth Temple up atop Shadow Plateau.

33 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

... I agree to the less coming and going as who wants to do a 2.000' elevation change to say hello? ...

People have done far more (and far stupider) for religion.
Or, indeed, just for fun:  I know of one popular dayhike that has 4800' of elevation-gain (so popular that the park service had to implement a lottery, and limit the hike to 300 people per day).  Another is over 7000' of elevation gain (so 14,000' of elevation change).

Babeester Gori will not be phased by the climb.

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by g33k

[Squaredeal Sten]

23 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Does the obsidian dust form a clay which could be Orlanthi woad...

 

I suggest that because the Palace of Black Glass was only shattered in historical time [roughly 300 years ago on the current timeline]  by Belintar, there has not been anywhere near enough time for the obsidian fragments to weather into the very small particles that define clay.

I think of the Shadow Plateau's Uz as the survivors of an event which would remind you of the destraction of a city in nuclear war.  Think Mad Max movies.

Are Hall is much older.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
undoing spelling scrambler

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Dafuq is Babs doing in Troll territory??!?

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Babeester Gor killed all of her foes with her great axe until at last she faced Ovodaka, the Last Guardian, who held all of the goddesses prisoner. Babeester Gor let Ovodaka kill her. She then came back to life by drinking her own blood and killed Ovodaka.

Uncle ZZ knows that story — feels it in his molten bones — slaps her on the back and says, “Girl’s alright with me. Anyone got a problem? Thought not. Actor–model–waiter: more blood beer over here!”

[Squaredeal Sten]

The last lines of "Greg Sez: Esrolian Q&A (2001)" explains what Axe Hall is like for the pilgrim.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/greg-sez/esrolian-qa/

"24. Is Axe Hall on the Shadow Plateau a site holy to Babeester Gor? What happens there?
A: It is her biggest holy place. She there struck down Ovodaka. Babeester Gor worshippers try to pilgrimage there because their goddess is very powerful. The brew is of the blood of gods, the company is perfect and all pain, suffering and worry of the cultists is removed."

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
put link in

[Squaredeal Sten]

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

...

Does BG forbid non humans to join? Maybe there are some troll females in the ranks as most troll warriors, that I've seen are males, possibly a female troll BG initiate would be a fun change?

///

The Earth Goddesses, page 53, first paragraph under Initiate Membership,  says "Trolls must pass an additional CHAx3 test to join the cult."

On the preceding page it says lay membership is open to all the Elder Races.  The only limitations are "non-Chaotic sentient".

So BG does not forbid non humans to join. It doesn't even look as though you have to be female to be a lay member, since "Lay members are often merely the militia for lands that worship the many Earth goddesses."  (page 51).  Of course the men never get promoted to Initiate.  But "During wartime they may wrest whatever comfort is possible from the camaraderie of their comrades."

Edited September 22, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
spelling / typing

[g33k]

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

The last lines of "Greg Sez: Esrolian Q&A (2001)" explains what Axe Hall is like for the pilgrim.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/greg-sez/esrolian-qa/

"24. Is Axe Hall on the Shadow Plateau a site holy to Babeester Gor? What happens there?
A: It is her biggest holy place. She there struck down Ovodaka. Babeester Gor worshippers try to pilgrimage there because their goddess is very powerful. The brew is of the blood of gods, the company is perfect and all pain, suffering and worry of the cultists is removed."

TYVM!
Tho at the end there -- "the brew is of the blood of gods, the company is perfect and all pain, suffering and worry of the cultists is removed" -- it almost seems like they've been transported to that other Axe Hall... the one in the Underworld, where Babs herself resides.

[Squaredeal Sten]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

TYVM!
Tho at the end there -- "the brew is of the blood of gods, the company is perfect and all pain, suffering and worry of the cultists is removed" -- it almost seems like they've been transported to that other Axe Hall... the one in the Underworld, where Babs herself resides.

it sure does.  Maybe Axe Hall is like some other holy sites, where the membrane between the Middle World and the Gods World is thin -  and with the proper ceremony it is permeable.  Maybe it is like a kind of second initiation: The pilgrimage is more than just touristing and buying souvenirs. 

Sure at the temple they give you a drink of ordinary blood beer. But that is just the start: You pass from world to world, you are drinking with Axe Sisters that you would swear are dead, you get a drink of the godly blood beer, you're drunk on your ass, you see things out of myth, but when you wake up the next day you may get another benefit (and it's not necessarily sex with Eurmal, or if it is, then we have to ask ourselves what BG learned from that episode, and translate that to an effect on the character). 

That line about removing pain and worry may be an invitation to remove a bothersome passion from the character sheet, or perhaps to heal old scars.   (Though BG has Heal Body anyway if i recall correctly.)  Maybe you can give up POW and get a Rune spell, which is not very strange for learning the myth behind the spell.  Maybe you can get something else, the GM's choice to push you along the Goddess's path to Rune status.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
punctuation

[AlexS]

13 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Naimless had troll friends

I don’t know what the source is for Naimless’ past relationships with Uz, but according to the GM adventures book it is definitely part of Erannina Chan’s backstory. I drew on this for something I wrote as an NPC background piece for a forthcoming Esrolia publication (copied in full in the spoilered bit below if you’re interested). 

The idea of this piece was to explore the Esrolian Shadow-Blessed Earth cultural tradition (which emphasises the Esrola-Argan Argar / Norinel-Kimantor husband-protector relationship) via the links between Valadon (very close to the Plateau and canonically a centre for Argan Argar worship), the Uz and Axe Hall (also close to Valadon). Since Broyan emerged from this part of the Plateau to drive off the Grazers at the Battle of Willford, some kind of connection between Axe Hall and the Heortland resistance also seemed to make sense.

Spoiler

I am Serzeen Sharp-Axe

It was Varsta who named me thus, laughing on that hilltop in Heortland, the first time we met. As our party climbed up into the Finovan Hills, her warband had surrounded us with consummate stealth. As soon as her challenge rang out, my naked axe was in my hand and my response was on my tongue: ‘Halt us if you dare, but be prepared to pay dearly, for I am Serzeen of Axe Hall, and my blade is sharp’. Her laughter disarmed me, and as her Vingans emerged from cover all around us I realised that we had reached our destination – we had found the warriors of King Broyan.

The daughter and granddaughter of farmers who worked the rich dark soil beneath the Shadow Plateau, nothing in my childhood had led me to believe that I might one day be fighting alongside these wild Heortlings in the windswept hills of Sen Senrenen.

Of course Grandmother blamed my father’s influence, and it is true that as a hunter who followed Tol Shadowcat-father he was a strange mate for my Esrola-devotee mother. But we are of House Brovaeo – for all that our branch is a small one, long reduced to client status – and we know that the Dark Earth has its strange paths of love, as well as its fearsome paths of death.

My own strange path of love was to take me first onto, and then into, the Shadow Plateau. For other Esrolians it is a looming, troll-haunted menace, but we of Valadon know that it is the source of both our prosperity and our protection. Every year we gather by the Willford, hymning fair Esrola as her priestesses open the passage across the river for her Husband-Protector Argan Argar to enter the city and consummate their sacred marriage. 

So, none of us thought it strange that, when I was just 11, my father invited me to join him in climbing the steep path above our stead to hunt on the Plateau. I was thrilled to be so honoured, but though he praised my courage when we found ourselves facing first a fierce black sandstorm and then a great black boar, I could see that he was disappointed by my lack of aptitude for finding cover and making stealthy movements. 

Blinded by my love for my enigmatic shadow-walking father, I insisted that he take me on future hunts, but he always gently demurred. Then, a year later, the summons came for him to join the scouting band that was forming to guide our army into Maniria, where the barbarians had grown too bold and needed to be taught a lesson. We never knew exactly what happened to him, but the people came to call that disastrous battle ‘The Lion King’s Feast’, and that was knowledge enough.

When my first blood came, my mother took me to Valadon to meet the Grandmothers, and they led me through the ritual that bound my soul to that of Queen Aranda, Ancestor-Guardian of our House. Then, on Esrola’s Holy Day, she took me to the Harvest Temple with the other girls-becoming-women of House Brovaeo. There, we learned the secrets of the Bountiful Bay Marriage, the Bright Thane Marriage, the Fertile Rain Marriage and the Dark Harvest Marriage. 

True to the tradition of my House and my City, my spirit chose the Dark Harvest Marriage. I cannot speak of what mysteries I learned that day, but I must speak of Gaklak, who played the part of Argan Argar in the ceremony. Small of stature for an uzko (indeed, he later told me that when he was growing up his clan-mates called him ‘enlo’), he nonetheless had a powerful, captivating presence. Swept up in the moment, as we recited the sacred verses I felt him actually transform into the Lord of Surface Darkness, and as our palms touched my whole body pulsed with the intensity of his being.

I knew that what I felt was more than girlish infatuation, but my mother dismissed the idea that the Dark Harvest Marriage could be not just a ritual but an actual bond between a mortal human and someone who belonged to the Elder Races. She forbad me to see Gaklak, and when I ran away to be with him she sent my father’s hunter friends up onto the Plateau to track us down. Gaklak took me to his mother’s cave, and after testing me and finding that the Darkness part of my soul was strong, she showed us the secret paths through the Plateau that we could use to escape. 

We lived free for more than a year, roaming over and under the Plateau, but then the summons came. My mother had sought out the Grandmothers of House Brovaeo, and they had sent emissaries to Nochet, to treat with the Six Sisters who rule over the Dark Warrens. The Sisters had ruled that Gaklak would be cast out of the clan if he didn’t give me up and resume his Argan Argar trade apprenticeship in the Warrens. Gaklak went – too meekly, I thought, but then can anyone who is not Uz really understand the force of such a command?

Distraught, I declared that I would never return to the farm and marry some Barntar peasant as my mother wished. Instead, I made my way to Axe Hall and prostrated myself at the gate. As it happened my arrival coincided that of a famous Sartarite Axe Maiden named Erannina, who had come to revisit the site of her initiation. When I had sobbed out my story, she asked the guards to let me in – as I found out later, she too had loved an uz. This became a bond between us; we two had experienced what few daughters of Ernalda know, however well-versed they may be in the myths of Norinel and Kimantor.

It may have been Erannina’s favour, as well as my knowledge of the Shadow Plateau, that led to my being assigned to the party sent to make contact with the followers of High King Broyan. That was how I came to meet Varsta, and eventually to join her warband, the Daughters of Ara. We harried the Lunars as they besieged Whitewall, we fought together in the Auroch Hills, and finally I was presented to Broyan as someone who could guide his force through the Shadow Plateau into Esrolia. When we came through the Plateau safely and were able to surprise the Grazelanders to win a crushing victory at the Willford, beneath the walls of my home city, I knew this was thanks to the knowledge that I had gained during my brief time with Gaklak. 

Though I am sworn to Varsta and loyal to my warband comrades, it is the memory of my Dark Harvest Marriage that inspires me still. 

NB: according to the map in the Guide, the Western edge of the Plateau, including Esrola’s throne and the Trollwash valley almost up to Axe Hall itself, is actually part of the North March not the Shadowlands. If this is the case, Axe Hall as a neutral ground between human and Uz (and/or Kitori) would make sense from a territorial boundaries point of view – and this could even be mythically underpinned by something like the BG-and-ZZ-as-blood-beer-drinking-buddies scenario floated by @mfbrandi above.

Edited September 22, 2023 by AlexS
Corrected typo

[metcalph]

21 minutes ago, AlexS said:

I don’t know what the source is for Naimless’ past relationships with Uz,

It's from Cults of Prax in which Naimless shows up to a Humakti duel with sword-wielding Dark Trolls.  These Dark Trolls are Humakti from the Sazdorf Tribe which means they weren't friends of Naimless but friends of the Temple of the Wooden Sword.

[g33k]

7 hours ago, AlexS said:

I don’t know what the source is for Naimless’ past relationships with Uz, but according to the GM adventures book it is definitely part of Erannina Chan’s backstory.

TYVM, I will go look there!

 

7 hours ago, AlexS said:

...

NB: according to the map in the Guide, the Western edge of the Plateau, including Esrola’s throne and the Trollwash valley almost up to Axe Hall itself, is actually part of the North March not the Shadowlands. If this is the case, Axe Hall as a neutral ground between human and Uz (and/or Kitori) would make sense from a territorial boundaries point of vie

...

That's interesting, I'll have to look at that, too.
It'd be very odd, though, for a natural boundary & natural defensive hardpoint (like the western cliff-edges) NOT to also be the territorial boundary.

[Erol of Backford]

23 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

"Greg Sez: Esrolian Q&A (2001)"

So having them over for diner and having them for diner are one in the same with the trolls even near Axe Hall.

I assumed there'd have been some sort of mutual non aggression pact like Russia and Japan during WW2, until the end of the war of course. Don't trust and want their territory but bigger fish to fry elsewhere or more likely too much effort for not much territory?

We will likely run with some trollkin (value trollkin of course) that are helpers and or "slaves" who work for the BG's and so avoid being food trollkin or such an abusive environment. Wait, do BG drink trollkin blood or use it for beer?

I love the old QA session write ups... some of those old Lore Auctions are pretty good and the answers were only a dollar, besides when they asked what the God Learner's secret was after which they were charged the dollar and didn't get an answer... funny!

11 hours ago, AlexS said:

I don’t know what the source is for Naimless’ past relationships with Uz

In the Temple of the Wooden Sword thread there is a lot of info, it stated somewhere in one of the links that she had taken a troll love or was it 2? I was guessing she was close friends with this Taksag guy...

Trollpak p.52-55 - She (Naimless) was seemingly with the first party of Humakti to raid Sazdorf. She accepted the challenge of Taksag to a duel, he gave her a "filthy skin of blood beer and a few coppers" when she bested him to first blood in their Humakit duel. This was 1611. Taksag left Sazdorf with Naimless, initiated and was given his first sword by Naimless.

The payout had blood beer involved so makes me think there must be something that the brewers from Axe Hall the trolls in and on Shadow Plateau get together for, have a festival? What would a troll and BG Octoberfest be like? Lots of drunk nude people trolls and BG's wearing chaps!? Too funny. Babeester Gor fest, Babfest, Babeestfest... Gorfest?

11 hours ago, AlexS said:

Esrolian Shadow-Blessed Earth cultural tradition (which emphasises the Esrola-Argan Argar / Norinel-Kimantor husband-protector relationship) via the links between Valadon (very close to the Plateau and canonically a centre for Argan Argar worship), the Uz and Axe Hall (also close to Valadon). Since Broyan emerged from this part of the Plateau to drive off the Grazers at the Battle of Willford, some kind of connection between Axe Hall and the Heortland resistance also seemed to make sense.

This is really good... assuming there is an Esrola-Argan Argar / Norinel-Kimantor husband-protector relationship... are there sources for Argan Argar being a protector? Might use even if not. Thanks for that Alex.

On 9/21/2023 at 2:32 PM, g33k said:

People have done far more (and far stupider) for religion.

Another thing on the elevation change, you are right, it's not terrible with mules and or insects for beasts of burden, I guess, Andrew's Glacier was about a 2800' change and we did it in 6 hours. I was just thinking it wasn't something to do once a week? Like hoping over to the market to get some bread. Maybe there are earth elemental powered elevators on the side of the Plateau or in cored tubes with platforms pushed up hydraulically via this magical river inside the Plateau which may not be there like a lock and dam with keyways? I suppose though, that'd be much too dwarflike for a troll area but maybe these "elevators" have been around since closer to dawn?

GTG Obash Broos-Smasher: A dark troll warleader from the Shadow Plateau, whose magical guardian is a petty storm god. A Shadowlord of Argan Argar, Obash does not denigrate humans who also worship the god. He and his clan claim ownership of the roads to Dragon Pass, and often raid north into Sartar, and against Lunar convoys as well.

He may or may not be a Earth protector?

Noted the road running from Axe Hall, there must be some sort of low angle switchback road carved into the side of the plateau like maybe at Zion canyon?

Edited September 22, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I suppose though, that’d be much too dwarflike for a troll area but maybe these “elevators” have been around since closer to dawn

Sure. If AA put Lodril to work, then some hydraulic engineering from the inventor of canals is not out of the question. Also, the Only Old One worked with dwarves — look at his specs. How well-maintained are the mechanisms, though?

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Gorfest

Definitely this. A beer and arts festival: grisly theatre pieces (but Babs does not like Electra); sound-and-light shows (i.e. horror movies and Tom & Jerry/Itchy & Scratchy/Squeak the Mouse-type cartoons projected by illusion cultists); the Ana Gor Dance Troupe and Euthanasia Booth; drone metal bands; the Maran Gor Sub-Bass Gong Orchestra! A good time is had by anyone with the bottle to attend.

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

This is really good... assuming there is an Esrola-Argan Argar / Norinel-Kimantor husband-protector relationship... are there sources for Argan Argar being a protector?

The Earth Goddesses' book, p. 23: "Argan Argar is only worshiped as Ernalda’s husband in Esrolia and among the rare Darkness-worshiping cultures that respect the Earth deities." Also, "In Esrolia, all the following husband-deities are present except for Pamalt; there Ernalda’s cultists gain Rune spells from all the husband-deities."

There is an extensive story about Norinel and Kimantor's marriage and subsequent saving of Nochet in the Esrolia book.

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I was just thinking it wasn't something to do once a week?

It's definitely a pilgrimage except for those residing there.

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

He may or may not be a Earth protector?

As an Argan Argar cultist he is likely an Earth protector, but so was the Only Old One (aka Kimantor).