Meeting Wakboth

[Ynneadwraith]

23 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

Or we naturalise death and disease and we wipe away the attitude that they are intrusions from “outside” that no morally upstanding person could compromise with.

And here we get a little closer to what seems to be my own philosophy on life. There are no weeds, only plants. This is neither a good thing, nor a bad thing. It just is.

Not a terribly tempting philosophy though. Doesn't exactly promise much. I doubt I'll get a mass chaos cult following going...

[mfbrandi]

4 hours ago, Ynneadwraith said:

I doubt I’ll get a mass chaos cult following going

Oh, I don’t know … the ever-growing True Nysalorean Horde marches under its golden banner:

» YOU CANNOT DERIVE AN OUGHT FROM AN IS! «
no matter what arkat–gbaji says

Edited April 16 by mfbrandi
it -> its

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

 

you cannot swallow Kajabor, you can only let Kajabor swallow you.

Arachne Solara begs to differ.

[Eff]

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

Well, we can (I guess) introject Wakboth and carry him around with us, but you cannot swallow Kajabor, you can only let Kajabor swallow you.

I can swallow Kajabor. Feel free to ask me how.

[mfbrandi]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

Arachne Solara begs to differ

You know my slogan (and you are sick of it by now): in Glorantha, the worst fights are with oneself. So if after the mightiest of struggles AS swallows K, I did say that Kajabor had mastered self-swallowing. And if people are hung up these days on Wakboth’s being stitched into the fabric of the New Improved Spider-silk World™, let us blame it on the amnestic virtue of Kajabor. Or something. 😉

[Ian Absentia]

9 hours ago, Ynneadwraith said:

There are no weeds, only plants. This is neither a good thing, nor a bad thing. It just is.

Not a terribly tempting philosophy though. Doesn't exactly promise much.

Except for a cessation of abstract conflict.  Only concrete, practical hierarchies of need require resolution, not disagreements about high-minded philosophy or base vendetta.

And on this, I predict the evolution of a more peaceful Glorantha.

!i!

[John Biles]

2 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

Except for a cessation of abstract conflict.  Only concrete, practical hierarchies of need require resolution, not disagreements about high-minded philosophy or base vendetta.

And on this, I predict the evolution of a more peaceful Glorantha.

!i!

Death and disease are not high minded philosophy, base vendetta, or abstract conflict.

They are concrete realities that humans wish to throw down the stairs for entirely good reasons.

 

[Erol of Backford]

2 hours ago, John Biles said:

humans wish to throw down the stairs for entirely good reasons

I just had to and I am sorry but: Everyone knows it's Slinky.

Is Wakboth considered one and the same as the Devil... sorry I don't know this one.

Edited April 17 by Erol of Backford

[John Biles]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

I just had to and I am sorry but: Everyone knows it's Slinky.

Is Wakboth considered one and the same as the Devil... sorry I don't know this one.

To the extent that the term Devil is used in Glorantha, it usually means Wakboth.

 

[Eff]

4 hours ago, John Biles said:

Death and disease are not high minded philosophy, base vendetta, or abstract conflict.

They are concrete realities that humans wish to throw down the stairs for entirely good reasons.

 

I would love to see disease as a concept fall down some stairs. Does she have a sister? Is that sister into that kind of stuff too? What's her sister's number? 

[mfbrandi]

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Is Wakboth considered one and the same as the Devil[?]

You know all this and are merely teasing:

• If you think the world of Solar Time is merely entropic,
  you are a Kajabor fangirl.
   
• If you think the Great Compromise was to stitch evil into nature of the new world,
  you are a Wakboth enabler.
   
• If you think entropy = evil,
  I have the number of a good therapist.

Other partial and dubitable précis are available.

Edited April 17 by mfbrandi

[Ynneadwraith]

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

• If you think entropy = evil,
  I have the number of a good therapist.

I hear she did a wonderful job with Yelm. Now he's not at all bothered by how those nasty heathens wrecked his perfectly manicured lawn. You might need to feed her pet bat first though...

[Erol of Backford]

10 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

I have the number of a good therapist.

I can always use a good listener...

The "natural disorder" of things - funny how the Illuminated always try to convince us that the Bright One was a kind and loving god...

I like to keep it simple. Arkat - good and the wolf in sheep's clothing is Nysalor - evil -  Wakboth without the cool jacket and sunglasses?

[mfbrandi]

On 4/17/2024 at 8:48 PM, Erol of Backford said:

I like to keep it simple. Arkat - good and the wolf in sheep's clothing is Nysalor - evil -  Wakboth without the cool jacket and sunglasses?

Simpler still: they are one and it would be foolish to try to cut them into distinct beings. 😉

Edited April 18 by mfbrandi
deleted “two”

[mfbrandi]

58 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

The “natural disorder” of things - funny how the Illuminated always try to convince us that the Bright One was a kind and loving god …

• Punter: What kind of god was Nysalor? Was he kind and loving?
• Riddler: Nysalor is a dead god. How many kind and loving corpses do you know?

We busy Nysaloreans are not going to waste time doing PR for a dead god when there are questions to be asked and stick-in-the-muds to be baited, now, are we? Life runs out. Kajabor eats you. (Possibly even in that order.)

[Eff]

Was Nysalor a god?

[John Biles]

1 hour ago, Eff said:

Was Nysalor a god?

It was the whole point of the project to make him.

So there was an awfully pointless mess if he was just a random schmuck.

 

[Eff]

38 minutes ago, John Biles said:

It was the whole point of the project to make him.

So there was an awfully pointless mess if he was just a random schmuck.

 

Are those the only two options that exist? God or "random schmuck"?

[John Biles]

1 hour ago, Eff said:

Are those the only two options that exist? God or "random schmuck"?

He could be something on the level of say the Emperor, Harrek, etc, but if you're shooting for god and you don't get one, but you act like you got one, you have a schmuck.

Though part of the problem is that all we really know about Nysalor is that he spread infectious illumination and didn't care about his worshipers.  And died fighting Arkat.

 

[Erol of Backford]

21 minutes ago, John Biles said:

a schmuck

But a pretty cool schmuck?

[Eff]

54 minutes ago, John Biles said:

He could be something on the level of say the Emperor, Harrek, etc, but if you're shooting for god and you don't get one, but you act like you got one, you have a schmuck.

I am not so sure that this makes sense, logically. I don't believe that Glorantha has a meaningful hierarchy where all gods are above all non-gods.

[mfbrandi]

4 hours ago, Eff said:

I don’t believe that Glorantha has a meaningful hierarchy where all gods are above all non-gods.

I am inclined to agree — sorry, don’t mean to dent your credibility (but my stopped clock and so on) — but I suspect that all RPGs conspire to the condition of Top Trumps and all fandoms to the condition of stamp collectors and train spotters. Now, I must go and polish my dice …

[Ynneadwraith]

6 hours ago, John Biles said:

He could be something on the level of say the Emperor, Harrek, etc, but if you're shooting for god and you don't get one, but you act like you got one, you have a schmuck.

What about something somewhere between the gods and Harrek? What about something like Sedenya?

Is Sedenya even a god like the others? She certainly differs markedly by being a physical presence in the world, rather than an intangible force accessible solely through Godtime.

Are the Lunars schmucks for believing their great ball of floating dirt is a god? I'm sure many Sartarites think so...

[Eff]

42 minutes ago, Ynneadwraith said:

What about something somewhere between the gods and Harrek? What about something like Sedenya?

Is Sedenya even a god like the others? She certainly differs markedly by being a physical presence in the world, rather than an intangible force accessible solely through Godtime.

Are the Lunars schmucks for believing their great ball of floating dirt is a god? I'm sure many Sartarites think so...

Well, many gods also have physical presences in the world, being present in the water of a river or the stone of a mountain or in every lamb frolicking in a field. 

[Ynneadwraith]

7 minutes ago, Eff said:

Well, many gods also have physical presences in the world, being present in the water of a river or the stone of a mountain or in every lamb frolicking in a field. 

And the Lunars would have you believe these are the same things...

I'm not necessarily saying they are or aren't of course, I'm just positing the idea that there could be shades of godhood between 'heroes' like Harrek and Jar-Eel and 'True Gods' like Orlanth and Shargash. Perhaps, with her refusal to truly depart from the world of Time into the mythic, Sedenya is one of these shades. A shade like Nysalor, perhaps. Slightly different upper-tier steps on the path to enlightenment, that look indistinguishable to us puny mortals grubbing about on the ground.

Alternatively, they're all one and the same thing (just in and outside of time), and all of this 'different steps' pigeonholing is nought but propaganda. Any sufficiently advance mortal is indistinguishable from a god (so perhaps all our gods are sufficiently advanced mortals).