Sorcery and Allied Spirits

[Jens]

Thanks everyone for chiming in. After much consideration, here's my take for my Glorantha:

1. Allied spirits from cults that teach sorcery (or were sorcerers in life), and have the requisite INT of 13+, are able to learn sorcery.
2. Since sorcery is a literate discipline, learning new spells is challenging without eyes to read and hands to turn pages, but follows the standard rules- takes a season of study to start a new sorcery spell at magic modifier + 1D6, often with the Rune partner serving as teacher. The chance to cast each spell is tracked independently for both parties (capped at their R/W skill), just like sprit magic % uses the spirit's POW, not their partner's.
3. If one partner has currently memorized a spell (keeping it in their Free INT), anyone able to cast that spell can do so through the allied spirit bond where spell knowledge is shared. Memorizing spells know by their partner WITHOUT learning to cast them is also possible through that bond; following the memorizing spells rules, it would take 3 hours of meditation, and success with a meditation skill roll, to transfer knowledge of, but not ability to cast, a single spell from one to the other.
4. Allied spirits have the same Free INT restrictions for memorizing spells as anyone else; that means any points of spirit magic they know would be subtracted from their available INT for memorizing spells.
5. Since magical spells and spell knowledge are shared, it makes sense that runes and techniques would be shared as well (similar to knowledge of Rune Spells and Rune Points). Allied spirits can be assumed to know the ones from their cult (e.g. Truth and Command for an LM spirit)- these should already by known by their partner. Additional ones can be mastered if their INT is high enough (15+), using the rules on page 384 (including at most 1 attempt per season).
6. While an allied spirit's INT can be used to memorize spells, freeing up the INT of their partner, it can't be used for additional manipulation (i.e. doesn't increase their Free INT beyond the point they'd gain from not needing to memorize the spell).
7. Unless they are embodied in a form that could cast magic (GM's discretion, perhaps through possession or when guarding their partner while they discorporate), allied spirits cannot cast sorcery spells while disembodied or locked in an object like a pen or a sword.

Edited Tuesday at 03:17 AM by Jens
Clarified rules around learning vs memorizing spells.

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, Jens said:

Thanks everyone for chiming in. After much consideration, here's my take for my Glorantha:

1. Allied spirits from cults that teach sorcery (or were sorcerers in life), and have the requisite INT of 13+, are able to memorize sorcery spells. 
2. Since sorcery is a literate discipline, learning new spells is challenging without eyes to read and hands to turn pages; the most straightforward path is to use the allied spirit bond where magical abilities and spell knowledge are shared to learn spells known by their Rune partner. Following the memorizing spells rules, it would take 3 hours of meditation, and success with a meditation skill roll, to transfer a single spell from one to the other.
3. Allied spirits have the same Free INT restrictions for memorizing spells as anyone else; that means any points of spirit magic they know would be subtracted from their available INT for memorizing spells.
4. Since magical spells and spell knowledge are shared, it makes sense that runes and techniques would be shared as well. Allied spirits can be assumed to know the ones from their cult (e.g. Truth and Command for an LM spirit)- these should already by known by their partner. Additional ones can be mastered if their INT is high enough (15+), using the rules on page 384 (including at most 1 attempt per season).
5. While an allied spirit's INT can be used to memorize spells, freeing up the INT of their partner, it can't be used for additional manipulation (i.e. doesn't increase their Free INT beyond the point they'd gain from not needing to memorize the spell).
6. Unless they are embodied in a form that could cast magic (GM's discretion, perhaps through possession or when guarding their partner while they discorporate), allied spirits cannot cast sorcery spells while disembodied or locked in an object like a pen or a sword.

Consider that stolen.

[Godlearner]

Quote

freeing up the INT of their partner, it can't be used for additional manipulation (i.e. doesn't increase their Free INT beyond the point they'd gain from not needing to memorize the spell).

If you are allowing additional Rune and Techniques, then additional manipulation should also be allowed. 

[Jens]

3 hours ago, Godlearner said:

If you are allowing additional Rune and Techniques, then additional manipulation should also be allowed.

What’s your logic here? To me runes and techniques are something you know, following precedents like sharing spirit or rune spells. Unlike for fetches, there’s no precedent for sharing stats from allied spirits- you don’t add their INT, POW, or CHA, always treating those as independent. Likewise there are no rules or RQ:G stories about sorcerers sharing their minds and casting giant spells with merged Free INT. Sure, they can assist in making giant enchantments, but your allied spirit can do that too.

In the end, you already get a significant boost to Free INT with your allied spirit memorizing your spells (without needing to sacrifice POW for inscriptions); that seems enough for me. 

Edited June 22 by Jens

[Shiningbrow]

14 hours ago, Jens said:

What’s your logic here? To me runes and techniques are something you know, following precedents like sharing spirit or rune spells. Unlike for fetches, there’s no precedent for sharing stats from allied spirits- you don’t add their INT, POW, or CHA, always treating those as independent. Likewise there are no rules or RQ:G stories about sorcerers sharing their minds and casting giant spells with merged Free INT. Sure, they can assist in making giant enchantments, but your allied spirit can do that too.

 

Just to throw a spanner into the works - what about a Fetch's INTelligence? (Trolls can both be shamans and sorcerers).

[Shiningbrow]

On 6/21/2024 at 1:13 AM, davecake said:

I do generally feel that most spirits (or other beings) are unable to cast sorcery while disembodied.

Why?

[Jens]

12 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

what about a Fetch's INTelligence

Fetches in RQ:G don't have INT, just POW and CHA- as an extension of the Shaman they use the Shaman's INT. From the core rules pg 356: "The fetch shares the shaman’s INT, knowing what the shaman knows, and can act and react just as can the shaman."

[Shiningbrow]

5 minutes ago, Jens said:

Fetches in RQ:G don't have INT, just POW and CHA- as an extension of the Shaman they use the Shaman's INT. From the core rules pg 356: "The fetch shares the shaman’s INT, knowing what the shaman knows, and can act and react just as can the shaman."

ooops.... 😛 Good catch!

[davecake]

On 6/23/2024 at 2:49 PM, Shiningbrow said:

On 6/21/2024 at 1:13 AM, davecake said:

I do generally feel that most spirits (or other beings) are unable to cast sorcery while disembodied.

Why?

Actually, going  back and reading the description of spell casting, I've decided I probably was wrong about this. You can't use Components while disembodied, and can't use Places to enhance casting (and probably most other synpathetic magic) unless you at least manifest/become Visible to establish some connection with the world, but that's a minor inconvenience. 

On 6/22/2024 at 2:22 PM, Jens said:

Since sorcery is a literate discipline, learning new spells is challenging without eyes to read and hands to turn pages

On their other hand, I'm totally doubling down on this. Your allied spirit is still limited to *its* Read/Write skill regarding its ability to cast a spell. To sorcerer, language isn't just a way to convey abstract concepts, or a way to turn speech into markings - think cabbala, gematria, magic words, word squares. Language details and weirdness is deep in the bones of the Western esoteric tradition (and related things) that sorcery is inspired by. So a ghost of a sorcerer? Sure.

On 6/22/2024 at 2:22 PM, Jens said:

the most straightforward path is to use the allied spirit bond where magical abilities and spell knowledge are shared to learn spells known by their Rune partner. Following the memorizing spells rules, it would take 3 hours of meditation, and success with a meditation skill roll, to transfer a single spell from one to the other.

If there was a way to learn a spell that easily, sorcerers would have learnt a spell to do it. Spirit magic spells can be learnt in a few hours, but it takes a season to learn a sorcery spell, it is like learning a new skill. Why would you use the Memorizing Spells, but ignore the Learning spells rules that are directly above it? 

 

On 6/22/2024 at 2:22 PM, Jens said:

Since magical spells and spell knowledge are shared, it makes sense that runes and techniques would be shared as well.

It does not to me. Rune Mastery is a profound permanent change involving total intellectual union. Sharing Mastery makes as much sense as your allied spirit being able to 'Share Initiation' to an unrelated deity, or 'Share Illumination'. 

 

On 6/22/2024 at 2:22 PM, Jens said:

While an allied spirit's INT can be used to memorize spells, freeing up the INT of their partner, it can't be used for additional manipulation (i.e. doesn't increase their Free INT beyond the point they'd gain from not needing to memorize the spell).

A very good call. Free INT works basically exponentially, so addition is wildly unbalancing, and doesn't really make sense. Free INT 20 isn't twice as good as INT 10 in sorcery, it's a lot more. It lets you cast a spell that last 8 years instead of 2 days. Lets you cast a spell over a distance of 100km not 1km. 

It also makes a lot of sense. Two INT 10 people are not as smart as an INT 20 person. Getting smart people together in committees does not produce brilliance. 

[Godlearner]

On 6/22/2024 at 12:04 PM, Jens said:

What’s your logic here?

An allied spirit extends the magical capacity. For Rune spells it can both cast and maintain a separate Rune pool. A huge boost to the priests power. For Spirit spells it can cast and add as an extension for additional spells. For Sorcery it pretty much needs to offer some sort of benefit. If youa re allowing a sorcerer to use it to store additional spells then it makes no sense that it can not be used to expand the manipulation of these spells. It does not make the sorcerer smarter, but rather allows the allied spirit to help hold the magic while the sorcerer continues to mainpulate the spell.

[Jens]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

An allied spirit extends the magical capacity

The key is they supplement, not augment, their existing casting. You can cast 2 separate Rune spells on SR 1, or two spirit spells, but not one merged spell. Casting two Bladesharp 2s doesn't give you Bladesharp 4, nor can you split your 3 point Sleep spell between your CHA and your Spirit's- all 3 points must be known by one or the other. So I'd rule the same applies for sorcery- you can share knowledge of spells, and potentially both cast spells at the same time, but not cast shared spells, nor enhance/enlarge each other's spells.

[Jens]

5 hours ago, davecake said:

I've decided I probably was wrong about this

It raises the interesting question- do you need to be able to vocalize or make gestures/movements to cast sorcery spells? If so, then you'd need to be embodied. If not, how do you prevent a captured sorcerer from casting spells? Binding and gagging wouldn't help- bring out the slave bracelets?

5 hours ago, davecake said:

Why would you use the Memorizing Spells,

I should have been precise, and said that's how you memorize a spell known by your partner- lets you store it in your Free INT, but not cast it. Learning to cast the spell should follow the regular rules (takes a season of study, open at magic + 1D6), with the caveat that your partner can act as your teacher.

5 hours ago, davecake said:

Sharing Mastery makes as much sense as your allied spirit being able to 'Share Initiation'

I see it as more akin to being able to share Rune Spells or Rune Points, which also require a POW sacrifice. But not much of a change to exclude.

5 hours ago, davecake said:

or 'Share Illumination'

Which raises another interesting question- what happens if one is illuminated, and the other not? Would they natter at their partner until both achieve that state?

I've incorporated clarifications to my post above.

Edited Monday at 09:27 PM by Jens

[davecake]

10 hours ago, Godlearner said:

An allied spirit extends the magical capacity. For Rune spells it can both cast and maintain a separate Rune pool. A huge boost to the priests power. For Spirit spells it can cast and add as an extension for additional spells. For Sorcery it pretty much needs to offer some sort of benefit.

It gives them access to Spirit Magic without reducing Free INT, which extends their effective magical capacity significantly, by giving them magic they can cast quickly in a dangerous situation (or have cast on them). Plus the extra magic points (sorcerers always need them). And that's just for Lhankor Mhy - almost all the Lhankor Mhy Truth magic is investigative anyway and not often used urgently, so they can usually keep it 'forgotten' and take 3 hours to bring it to mind as needed. 

For Irripi Ontor, once they become Illuminated they can join the Red Goddess cult and get Lunar Magic, and then it really kicks off - the sorcerer can also use their Free INT to cast all the Spirit Magic the Allied Spirit knows, and then use Lunar Magic to manipulate it. You don't need to find reasons to make that deal sweeter. 

(also, an Illuminated Irripi Ontor sorcerer has a unique bonus - they can use Irripi Ontor/Buserian celestial sorcery to boost their casting chances for magic associated with particular Runes. This works on both sorcery (so they can boost their casting chances on another spell they don't know well) and Rune magic (so if they learn some new Rune Magic from joining a new cult with different runes, as an Illuminate, they can have a good casting chance) or just Runes generally (so they can use low level newly un-Opposed Runes effectively, and get experience to help raise them). This has nothing to do with Allied Spirits, but thought I'd point out yet another way IO sorcerers have a lot of potential, and should not be crying sad about how having their allied spirit is not even awesomer!)

9 hours ago, Jens said:

It raises the interesting question- do you need to be able to vocalize or make gestures/movements to cast sorcery spells?

I read the description of spell casting in the sorcery chapter and it talked a lot about trance or semi-trance states and concentration, but nothing about gestures or the spoken word. I think they may need to visualise and sub-vocalise, which is easier the more overt and real it is (actually drawing or tracing, chanting loudly etc) but figure that mostly comes under using ritual means to raise chances etc rather than being required for casting (remembering that base chance to cast is often very low, so ritual practices are usual)

9 hours ago, Jens said:

If not, how do you prevent a captured sorcerer from casting spells? Binding and gagging wouldn't help- bring out the slave bracelets?

Blinding and deafening them (blindfolds etc) mean they can't generally target what they can't sense. Mostly you try to stop them from concentrating - drugs are I would imagine the usual solution. And kicking or punching them if you think they trying to cast. 

Slave bracelets are clearly the best solution, but also very pricy. Only for the most important captured sorcerers. 

9 hours ago, Jens said:

Which raises another interesting question- what happens if one is illuminated, and the other not?

They probably realise something weird has happened to their partner, but probably not what. Insight rolls etc would be appropriate. 

9 hours ago, Jens said:

Would they natter at their partner until both achieve that state?

Generally, being able to communicate and teach Illumination to another is very difficult and unreliable, and most Illuminates do not have the ability to do so (except maybe in the Lunar Empire where they are institutionally encouraged to learn a Riddle or two, which is still a very limited ability). So it would not be at all certain. But given the mind to mind communication, I think it would be reasonable for it to count as enough to open the Illumination skill (ie raise it above 0%) if you want. Then years later, there is an aha! moment and they might understand why their ally has been acting to weird. 

[Godlearner]

15 hours ago, Jens said:

The key is they supplement, not augment, their existing casting. You can cast 2 separate Rune spells on SR 1, or two spirit spells, but not one merged spell. Casting two Bladesharp 2s doesn't give you Bladesharp 4, nor can you split your 3 point Sleep spell between your CHA and your Spirit's- all 3 points must be known by one or the other. So I'd rule the same applies for sorcery- you can share knowledge of spells, and potentially both cast spells at the same time, but not cast shared spells, nor enhance/enlarge each other's spells.

You are splitting hairs with word definitions. Combat wise, the ability to cast multiple spells in a short period of time (per round) has a much greater impact than a larger spell in 3 rounds or more.

[davecake]

33 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

, the ability to cast multiple spells in a short period of time (per round) has a much greater impact than a larger spell in 3 rounds or more.

For Irripi Ontor Illuminates, Combine and a big Free INT means a lot of spells in a very short space of time. 

[Godlearner]

21 minutes ago, davecake said:

For Irripi Ontor Illuminates, Combine and a big Free INT means a lot of spells in a very short space of time. 

... and how many rounds would it take him to cast it?

[Jens]

5 hours ago, Godlearner said:

You are splitting hairs with word definitions.

No, I'm applying consistent rules for Allied Spirits between Spirit Magic, Rune Magic, and Sorcery, rather than making up a new one like you are proposing- which you are free to do. I wouldn't allow that kind of game breaking change, since unlike spirit and rune magic, sorcery scales exponentially, not linearly. With a Free INT of 36, easily achievable with just your Allied Spirit before using Enhance INT or inscriptions, you could give every party member Ward Against Damage 20 for a year, +5D6 damage on all of their weapons for a year, etc.

5 hours ago, Godlearner said:

the ability to cast multiple spells in a short period of time (per round) has a much greater impact than a larger spell in 3 rounds or more.

Not when it comes to sorcery- a spell cast with 36 Free INT is many times more powerful than one with 18. And why should Sorcery be treated differently? Allied spirits let you cast more spells, not bigger spells, with Spirit and Rune; therefore allied spirits should let you cast more sorcery spells, not bigger ones.

4 hours ago, Godlearner said:

and how many rounds would it take him to cast it?

If your concern is sorcery takes too long to cast, then RQ:G sorcery is just not designed for you. The designers have been very, very clear that it's not intended as a magic system for quickly casting during adventures, but one that takes lots of time and preparation. If you don't like that, you are free to change your Glorantha, but that's not the one envisioned by Greg and Jeff, and presented in the RQ:G rules.

Edited Tuesday at 05:20 PM by Jens

[Godlearner]

Quote

No, I'm applying consistent rules for Allied Spirits between Spirit Magic, Rune Magic, and Sorcery,

There is no consistency as is. Sorcery has been and is treated differently from Rune and Spirit magic. It is fair to call it a bastard child of RQ.

Quote

With a Free INT of 36, easily achievable with just your Allied Spirit before using Enhance INT or inscriptions, you could give every party member Ward Against Damage 20 for a year, +5D6 damage on all of their weapons for a year, etc.

Yes, you can. But a high powered Shaman or a Priest can be just as over powered with proper preparation and any characters playing that level will be facing enemies at that level as well.

Quote

Not when it comes to sorcery- a spell cast with 36 Free INT is many times more powerful than one with 18.

You are assuming huge amount of time to prepare. Stand face to face and tell me the same holds true. 

Quote

If your concern is sorcery takes too long to cast, then RQ:G sorcery is just not designed for you

We are discussing rules which have not yet been written and as is RQ:G sorcery is pretty much for NPC only. Allowing Allied spirits (and again I was originally suggesting for Malkioni specifically) offsets some of built in inadequacy of the system.

[Jens]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

We are discussing rules which have not yet been written

Jeff has been clear- no new rules, just new spells.

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

RQ:G sorcery is pretty much for NPC only

Hasn't stopped me or many others playing PC sorcerers in RQ:G- rules work just fine once you adjust to the fact that sorcery is ritual magic.

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

I was originally suggesting for Malkioni specifically

Allied sprits are a gift from your god. You really think Malkion would gift those to sorcerers??? And how would using an allied spirit to let you make larger spells - which take longer to cast - address the fact it takes multiple rounds to cast them? If you want rapid casting sorcery, you'll need to wholesale replace the RQ:G system.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Jens said:

Hasn't stopped me or many others playing PC sorcerers in RQ:G- rules work just fine once you adjust to the fact that sorcery is ritual magic.

Same here - have also had PC sorcerer and they simply become more like a CoC investigative type with ritual magic.

1 hour ago, Jens said:

Allied sprits are a gift from your god. You really think Malkion would gift those to sorcerers???

Can't see any Malkioni sorcerer having an "allied spirit".  (A talar might have an ancestor as an ally but they are effectively in an ancestor cult.) 

The zzaburi would summon and bind spirits to their will.

[Jens]

40 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

they simply become more like a CoC investigative type with ritual magic

Between Identify Otherworld Entity, Geomancy, Logician, Reveal Rune, Speak to Mind, and Total Recall, not to mention their rune spells, LM sorcerers are fabulous investigators (and spies).

42 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The zzaburi would summon and bind spirits to their will.

Matches very much my thinking. They'd have coterie of bound spirits to fulfil their needs- including potentially the spirits of dead sorcerers- but these would be dominated and commanded, not allied spirits. Heck, even my LM sorcerer got into that game once he realized you could learn a spirit's True Name with Identify Otherworld Entity, and then didn't need to defeat it in spirit combat if you summoned and commanded it using that name.

[metcalph]

9 hours ago, Jens said:

With a Free INT of 36, easily achievable with just your Allied Spirit before using Enhance INT or inscriptions, you could give every party member Ward Against Damage 20 for a year, +5D6 damage on all of their weapons for a year, etc.

The real limit in casting massive sorcery spells is not Free INT but availability of magic points.  Assuming 5 party members, that's 1 Expand Intellect 18 and 10 x Sorcery 36 spells or 380 mp.  Meanwhile the average sorcerer can look at a maximum personal magic point capacity of 20.  He's going to have access another 40 stored mp to cast one of those other spells before his Expand Intellect spell expires and then he has to cast Expand Intellect 18 again for the next year long spell.  So that's 3 days accumulating the required mp for a year long spell meaning the whole buffing exercise takes him 30 days.

The options for improving mp storage aren't much better.

1) magic point enchantments don't regenerate on their own.  There is a dwarven magic (Stabilize Magic Point Matrix CoR: Earth Goddesses p108) that does provide regeneration.  That suggests the technique isn't available to others.

2)  Bound Spirits.  Up to three bound spirits may be available, assuming an average POW of 3D6+6, giving the sorcerer an extra ~50 mp.  10d6+6 POW spirits are available but I doubt that they are commonly bound.  Stylistically I don't think Malkioni magicians uses bound spirits for magic point storage and use their bindings to store elementals and summonables.

3)  Benison spell (Red Book of Magic p16).  This looks quite useful with an mp per meele round being regained on half moon days or 90 mp before the spell expires.   The only problem is that we don't know who teaches it.  It's not in the Lunar Way.  I suspect that it might be a spirit in the forthcoming Horned God book but who that might be (Moonbroth?) is unknown.

4)  Magic tithing.  In Malkioni lands, the wizards tax the temples so the average wizard has access to up to 100 mp per worship ceremony.  I don't think they cast it as received but store it in magical banks or wells so they can cast their really big spells when needed.  The real problem is that the mp isn't the magician's to use as they see fit but something that the order directs them to use in specific ways.  There's always skimming but only order leaders  can access significant amounts.

5) Tapping.  Steal Breath is a great way to top up magic points.  The only downside is environmental damage.

 

[Jens]

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

The real limit in casting massive sorcery spells is not Free INT but availability of magic points

Agreed, but a big Free INT makes that simpler, since you can move from seasonal to annual buffing, which you can then stagger (1/5th of your buffs per season). Currently with a standard Free INT of 25 (before inscriptions or stacked Enhance INT casting) and 94 MPs between personal, allied, and bound spirits, my sorcerer can cast 3 big buffs a day, so it takes 2 days a season to buff a party of 6. Just 2 more points of Free INT would move those seasonal to annual buffs, and would still fit into his available MP/day.

Bound spirits that know spirit magic are fabulous for this purpose- during adventures their spells (and MP) come in handy; during big ritual casts their regenerating MP are much more useful than MP enchantments or storage crystals. And why not drain your stored elements for the same purpose while you're at it?

[Shiningbrow]

9 hours ago, Jens said:

If you want rapid casting sorcery, you'll need to wholesale replace the RQ:G system.

No you don't. You just need to find a way to make it work within the current system (which is fine, because it could just be a new Technique). Say, for each level of Hasten Casting, you reduce the time needed to cast by a certain amount. (presumably, taking up more valuable Free INT).

 

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

2)  Bound Spirits.  Up to three bound spirits may be available, assuming an average POW of 3D6+6, giving the sorcerer an extra ~50 mp.

That's only assuming the current sorcery spell list, which I would consider woefully inadequate. Other options to change that would be the Rune Spell of Charisma, or (more likely) the Enhance Charisma spell. Also, I wouldn't assume the base of only 3D6+6 POW for those spirits (for a "fully prepared" sorcerer. Those lower POW spirits would be replaced by higher ones over the course of... how long? Meaning, a focussed sorcerer (for this argument) could easily have over 150MPs readily available, just from bound spirits.

BTW, IMG, LM's (and IO's and Buserians) are likely to have found a Rune Spell that doubles INT, just as Charisma and Bear's Strength double their respective stats. It's a bit of a no-brainer... (bwahahahahaaaa.... yeah, taking the pun!)

 

11 hours ago, Godlearner said:

You are assuming huge amount of time to prepare. Stand face to face and tell me the same holds true. 

What's your definition of 'prepare'?

It takes years for a person to 'prepare' to the level of a powerful priest - who need to a) have 18 POW, and b) at least 5 Rune Points... that takes years to prepare. The same for the Shaman (to be effective**). The sorcerer, however, doesn't need that much time. You could create an extremely powerful pile of spells and effects in vastly less time that it takes for either of the other two - A couple of Techniques (or even only 1), a Rune or two (or 3), and a season to so to learn each spell in the line-up, and even a newbie level sorcerer can wipe a battlefiled. With the same amount of time as the priest/shaman, they could be terrifying (assuming the same basic rules for PCs - minimum of 4 relevant/occupational skill rolls per season Since POW is not the primary attribute for the sorcerer, it takes less time to get gud... (even a POW of 5 sorcerer could wipe that battlefield!) Just sayin'.

Yes, I get that we're talking about two different ideas of 'prepare', but I do think it's important to keep in mind.

 

 

(**Ok, the shaman can be effective fairly quickly with a) a couple of good rolls when getting the Fetch, but also b) a couple of good spirit spells, or even just a spirit to distract the enemy in spirit combat)

[Jens]

17 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

for each level of Hasten Casting, you reduce the time needed to cast by a certain amount

There’s no RQ precedent I can think of for reducing the amount of time it takes to cast a spell- even Multispell and Combine just let you cast more in the same time. IMHO D&Disms like Quicken Spell just don’t fit thematically. 

That being said, a way to precast and release a sorcery spell, likely via an enchantment that costs permanent POW (similar to a Rune or Spirit Matrix) does make sense to me- you don’t cast the spell any quicker, you just hold on to it until you need it. 

17 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

a newbie level sorcerer can wipe a battlefiled.

Agreed- after a single year of play, my LM sorcerer may be the most powerful character I’ve ever had- not because he’s personally a combat monster, but because of the massive long term buffs he can put up on the entire party. Not to mention how a handful of middling IO initiates can devastate entire battlefields with Moonfire.