Paladin - where art thou?

[Greyblade]

Howdy folks,

Does anybody know if there is more development planned for Paladin? Is Ruben still involved with the game?

I know it's definitely a smaller game in terms of fanbase compared to Pendragon, but it's a marvelous game with some devoted players.

[TrippyHippy]

9 hours ago, Greyblade said:

Howdy folks,

Does anybody know if there is more development planned for Paladin? Is Ruben still involved with the game?

I know it's definitely a smaller game in terms of fanbase compared to Pendragon, but it's a marvelous game with some devoted players.

I’m not sure there was ever a plan to build more supplements for the game after the scenarios book. To be sure, the core book is already a whopper and bigger than the current Pendragon core rules book, so it isn’t left light in material. 

[Dissolv]

I am finding it quite easy to run a full campaign out of the Core book, actually.  The big problem is that Arthurian lore has so much more modern subject matter that it is trivial to reference something or other about almost anything related to it.  While Paladin is sadly more obscure, or worse -- wholly consumed by second hand wrappers, such as D&D.  "Wall of Fire" anyone? 

But many of the same situations, character archetypes, and opponents apply to both games, albeit in their different circumstances.  Both Arthur and Charlemagne are considered blessed by God, yet they both have their best champions turn against them.  This is a fatal to Arthur, but an endemic problem for Charlemagne, almost a theme.  Honor matters above all to the Knights, but they are battered by passions and worldly matters.  Valor makes the man.   You really can slightly tweak most Arthurian romances and make a Paladin adventure right out of it.  There are even Saxons as a primary opponent, just like Pendragon, and all of their culture and mythos to deal with. 

The way I approached the campaign was to attempt to "ground" it as a political/religious motivated struggle against hostile cultures, (with occasional miracles or appearances of fantastic elements such as Bayard the magic horse) up until Roncevaux.  At this point a major, massive, and impossible to overstate difference between the settings occurs.  All the Paladins die, and very early on!  IIRC this happens even before Heavy Chainmail becomes a common thing.  This is the equivalent of the Round Table all dying at Badon Hill, and while other figures move into the slots, they don't have the gravitas of Roland, Oliver, or Turpin.  The players are free to take center stage even as Charlemagne kicks off his prime conquering years.

While you don't have the driving narrative of the Arthurian cycle to power the events of the campaign, neither do you have the driving narrative of the Arthurian cycle pushing the campaign.  It is vastly more free to make "yours".  Most players won't know anything about the stories beyond the Song of Roland, and this allows a massive amount of creative freedom. 

Additionally, while Arthurian legend comes out of the mists from the get go, the Matter of France becomes more fantastic later in real life.  If you mimic this during the game, you can spring all sorts of problems and events on the players that it is assumed that the original Paladins used to handle.  I try to stick to Greek and Roman mythology (The matter of Rome), and not-so-old Arthurian mythology (The matter of Britain) for events and fantastic elements of the campaign.  Spencer's Faerie Court also was inspired by these legends, and so are definitely something that should make an appearance.  Note that this is where we get the term "Archmage" nearly directly from!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimago

So while I would enjoy and purchase another supplement, I'm also not finding as critical as with Pendragon, where I really wanted to get the story "correct" and allow the players to interact with the legend as Greg Stafford assembled it.  Paladin has no such pressure, so really all I need are some more adventures that take place post Roncevaux, but am also quite happy with the freedom to just play within the sandbox of the cycle, and to stick tight to the source material wherever I can.

Edited August 27 by Dissolv

[AlHazred]

36 minutes ago, Dissolv said:

So while I would enjoy and purchase another supplement, I'm also not finding as critical as with Pendragon, where I really wanted to get the story "correct" and allow the players to interact with the legend as Greg Stafford assembled it.  Paladin has no such pressure, so really all I need are some more adventures that take place post Roncevaux, but am also quite happy with the freedom to just play within the sandbox of the cycle, and to stick tight to the source material wherever I can.

What would The Great Paladin Campaign look like? I'll admit, I'm only familiar with the Song of Roland as he's my namesake. So what else goes in there?

[Mugen]

1 hour ago, AlHazred said:

What would The Great Paladin Campaign look like? I'll admit, I'm only familiar with the Song of Roland as he's my namesake. So what else goes in there?

I don't know much about the Matter of France, but History can help chosing the dates of the Campaign.

A major difference between Arthur and Charlemagne is that the life of the latter is well-known and documented. Even though it's hard for me to disscociate the man from the French National Myth.

Charlemagne is born somewhere between 742 and 748, becomes King in 768, Emperor in 800 and dies in 814.

I would be tempted to start in 732, the year when his grand father, Charles Martel (Charles the Hammer), stopped the Moors at Poitiers. He was the equivalent of Prime Minister, and was a strong political figure in a time where the Merovingian kings had lost all authority.

His father, Pepin the Short, became King in 751.

According to Wikipedia, both men where originally part of the Matter of France, so it makes sense to include them.

I would be tempted to end the Campaign in 814, but it would be tempting to make it last until the Treaty of Strasbourg, where the Empire was split between Charlemagne's 3 grandsons.

[Mugen]

Another interesting wikipedia article about La Geste du Roi.

[Ali the Helering]

I know this may sound ridiculous, but I have come to think that the lack of easily accessible translations of the chansons can be quite a boon.  Whereas KAP has quite well known background material of very different periods, styles, and highly debatable meanings, most of us approach the Charlemanic setting in relative ignorance.  

This allows for more of a surprise factor - for both players and host.

[Mugen]

5 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

I know this may sound ridiculous, but I have come to think that the lack of easily accessible translations of the chansons can be quite a boon.  

To be honest, even french people don't know much about the Matter of France.

We vaguely heard of Roncevaux and Roland, but that's all.

[g33k]

I have this persistent desire to run a time-travel adventure where the PC's brand-new tech device send them to the wrong era.

They meant to be investigating pre-Roman Gaul -- and equipped to "blend in" as best they could, including best-effort reconstructed Gaulish language (plus a cover story of being "traders from far away") -- but their very-1st encounter is with some brigands whose gear was obviously much later era, speaking a polyglot of Old Germanic, Old French, & Vulgar Latin... with nary a Celtic word to be discerned!

After being captured, the brigands discuss what to do with them -- which the PC's can understand only loosely, at best -- but fter omeone mention mybe bringing them to "the boss" that name quickly dominates & the decision is soon settled:  they're to go see "Big Chuck."


Yes, it's  Connecticut Yankees in Charlemagne's Court  with the PC's desperately squirming to avoid creating time-paradox (in a situation for which they are very-poorly prepared), while "Big Chuck" very-readily discerns that they're something very-different than what they present themselves as.

[Dissolv]

On 8/26/2024 at 11:59 PM, AlHazred said:

What would The Great Paladin Campaign look like?

It looks like the Main Rule book, chapter 15.  While not as detailed as Pendragon, the authors quite handily included 768AD to 814AD, in compressed format.  There is typically some adventure hook or at least a political activity in 3-4 countries/fronts on any given year. 

 

19 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

I know this may sound ridiculous, but I have come to think that the lack of easily accessible translations of the chansons can be quite a boon.  Whereas KAP has quite well known background material of very different periods, styles, and highly debatable meanings, most of us approach the Charlemanic setting in relative ignorance.  

This allows for more of a surprise factor - for both players and host.

Exactly right.  Well said.

[Mugen]

6 hours ago, Dissolv said:

It looks like the Main Rule book, chapter 15.  While not as detailed as Pendragon, the authors quite handily included 768AD to 814AD, in compressed format.  There is typically some adventure hook or at least a political activity in 3-4 countries/fronts on any given year. 

Which means a campaign that starts when Charlemagne is crowned and ends when he dies.

Quite like if GPC started when Arthur becomes King. 🙂

[Origen]

I completely understand Chaosium's desire to focus their current energies on the Arthurian world rather than splitting their attention (and community focus) between two different settings, but I also think it would be a lovely gesture for Chaosium to create a community publishing license which would allow fans to continue developing new material for Paladin. The game certainly doesn't need more material, but the scope for expansion is vast (arguably, greater than Pendragon itself).

As Paladin always seems to have been intended as a 'one off' passion project, community publishing would be a great way to send the game into the sunset with a meaningful afterlife.