A tribal relations czar under Argrath?

[Scorus]

Argrath has ascended to the Sartar throne in my game (mostly according to canon, except later). As per Jeff's View From Boldhome, Circa 1627, Argrath (i.e. me) must find the right people to delegate to and it is especially pressing that he "get the cities and tribes working together again." While Argrath will work directly with the tribal Kings and city Reges, he needs someone that can work with those leaders' underlings on smaller issues before they balloon to require his intervention, whether that be in their general relationship to the Princedom or, more often, problems they have with each other after decades of the Lunars fomenting conflict among them.

So, what is Argrath looking for? Obviously diplomatic/social skills would be necessary, but where do those come from in a Sartar and Orlanthi society context? Must they be an Orlanthi rune level, given that the vast majority of the folks they are working with probably are? Is this a role generally left to Issaries, given their social skills among Lightbringers? An Ernaldan would certainly carry a peace message: "There is always another way" but that might put out a softer image than Argrath can afford when working with the Orlanthi military folk that tend to attain tribal kingships. A well-known and respected noble or gentry seems obvious, but it would be a very rare one that doesn't have allegiance to a current tribe.

Insights into what rank, religion, experience, etc. Argrath would need in this key position would be most welcome! Or if you can think of an individual in the early Argrath period that he is likely to turn to, do make a suggestion! I've worked up something akin to a very loosely defined cabinet, but this position and someone to handle temple relations are two that I'm stuck on.

And while I do admit to playing Sim Glorantha (get over it! 😄), this character will factor into my game working with the Thane of Apple Lane as the latter establishes the village as, per Argrath's directive, a place of peace and reconciliation where tribes, etc. can safely meet to hammer out agreements (occasionally with real hammers since they are Orlanthi after all).

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Scorus said:

Insights into what rank, religion, experience, etc. Argrath would need in this key position would be most welcome!

Clearly these are PC opportunities (Argrath himself was a bold adventurer).

Generally, I'd expect them to be initiates of cults, but Argrath exploits what he can so I think these will be quite open (e.g. Orlanth, Ernalda, Issaries, LM, even Chalana Arroy, Waha, or Eiritha). While he might lean towards a Rune level, these are likely already in positions of power so he will turn to initiates with strong Communication skills and good Reputation. He might well be able to discern their Runic strength or Passions, or perhaps those who draw on those powers to emphasize their skills will simply impress him.

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

There should be a limit to this, because the Prince's government must be personal.  Loyalty will be much more to him than to Sartar. shown by the legitimacy crisis with and just after Kallyr.  So think about an alternative based on the ancient Persians, who had  " the King's ears", IiRC,  who evidently observed,  investigated and reported but had no official executive authority.  Of course that is only one model. and I am not claiming that any bureaucratic alternative is canon.  

To me this implies both Issaries and Lhankor Mhy, for the two functions of persuasion / reconciliation and Lawspeaker.

Big opportunity for the Issaries to exercise his Harmony rune.  Yes they need high Reputation.

Also consider that the Prince seems to have no authority to fire tribal or clan chiefs, short of declaring war on them.   Government is traditional.  That limits it, and not in a good way. 

[Nick Brooke]

Optimists. We know who Argrath relies on in these situations: godless outsiders. Mularik Iron-Eye is a shoe-in for the role.

[French Desperate WindChild]

I would not (but I may be wrong) consider that something (a cult, a rank, ...) is mandatory

My main entry would be "why Argrath will choose this one ?"

 

Of course, efficiency and / or loyalty could be the main reason. However, other options are possible, for example :

Argrath wants to promote a friend, a lover, a successful warrior. Or Agrath wants to get rid of a problematic member of his court ("I don't support any more his complain, her joke, ....").

==> "The tribal kings are smart enough to not cross my red line, will they consider as an insult my new hand or as an opportunity of freedom ? I will discuss with them to prevent any misinterpretation"

But maybe Argrath "has to" choose this one because some secret (blackmail, threat, oracle, ...)

 

In any rational and nominal case, the requirements may be :

- loyalty to Argrath first (and maybe to Sartar)

- very good skills (90%+) in insight, orate, and a large part of other communication skills (depending of the type of leadership.. negotiation or intimidation ?)

- good skills (70%+) inother communication skills

- a legitimity (not all but 2 is better than 1 and 3 is better than ...)

• good reputation (the rq score)
• strong (nice or dangerous) reputation in clan/tribe/army/temple/magic society leadership (avoiding "this guy failed to lead his clan, why should I hear him ?")
• noble status for a long time (before the investiture)
• noble ancestors
• rune level
• member of a well accepted cult in Sartar (I don't consider it as  mandatory, all is question of how Argrat wants the tribes to see/accept his leadership. Even a "dragon" could be a solution after all 😛  )

- a personal power (2 is better than ...)

• strong magic (communication, fight, ...)
• powerful and loyal followers (warriors, spies, priests, ....)
• powerful weapons, armors, crystal, etc...
• network 

the network may take several forms:

- Issaries, Orlanth or Ernalda temples hierarchy

- Lhankor Mhy law speakers

- this priestess of Ernalda may have different husband-protectors, sons or nephews of each tribe king

- this bard may have Inora as wife

- this awesome storm khan may remind all his interlocutor that his sister in law is Cragspider herself (what the f ! How is it possible ?)

- any other option (serious or ridiculous) you may think

 

So in fact everything is for me possible, the best way, would be to determine why this one, what could be the potential secrets behind the nomination or the story of this guy, what intrigue/scenario you want to build on that - if you want -.

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Optimists. We know who Argrath relies on in these situations: godless outsiders. Mularik Iron-Eye is a shoe-in for the role.

The Machiavelli style of putting a ruthless bastard in charge for the people to hate while executing your plans, with the option to disavow him later (sawing him in half is not mandatory, but encouraged).

Edited Sunday at 10:52 AM by Akhôrahil

[Scorus]

7 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

- this priestess of Ernalda may have different husband-protectors, sons or nephews of each tribe king

I agree with Jeff's comment that "Some are close friends (especially from his journey around the Homeward Ocean), but most are people that have no past relationship with the Prince until now (who has not lived in Sartar in over a decade and a half)." While he definitely is putting old friends into key positions, I see this one as needing to go to a well-connected Sartarite. I had been thinking of Entarios the Supporter for another role, but the comment above made me realize that this is where she belongs.

[ROOTless]

16 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Clearly these are PC opportunities (Argrath himself was a bold adventurer).

Generally, I'd expect them to be initiates of cults, but Argrath exploits what he can so I think these will be quite open (e.g. Orlanth, Ernalda, Issaries, LM, even Chalana Arroy, Waha, or Eiritha). <snip>

 

Agreed! But here's the thing. Agrath is a wiley fox. He'll have a whole set of such emissaries/problem solvers. Clever chieftains will realize that they can make an educated guess of His prefered solution, by looking at who was sent to offer 'advice'. If Argrath sent you an advisor sworn to CA, it's not because He wants heads to roll - more likely He's hoping a compromise can be found. If His chosen 'diplomats' are a squad of Shaker priestesses in full battle gear, riding shaker beasts and bringing 'friends' that turn out to be all Humakti heavies, that's probably a sign that He's less than happy and wants some radical changes.

etc.

Edited Sunday at 03:21 PM by ROOTless

[Squaredeal Sten]

18 hours ago, Scorus said:

......A well-known and respected noble or gentry seems obvious, but it would be a very rare one that doesn't have allegiance to a current tribe.

 

18 hours ago, Scorus said:

 

So Argrath sends people who are members of tribes NOT in the current dispute.   Which would be normal for mediators even if there were no Prince.  Perhaps he sends three emissaries, all  from different tribes.

 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

9 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Optimists. We know who Argrath relies on in these situations: godless outsiders. Mularik Iron-Eye is a shoe-in for the role.

In our campaign his godless outsiders (the Son of Mularik, who we named Alarik) messed up, and killed poor Deveval the Duck (from Vinga's Ford) who stood up for the honor of Apple Lane.  (The Thane was off adventuring of course)  And there was pressure on Argrath to appoint a Sartarite, in our case preferably Colymar, to his Companions.

So I like the concept of @Scorus for this post, and, as you point out, Argrath has strange foreigners for most of his companions.

And someday the Thane, my PC, will make Mularik pay. Revenge is a dish best served cold...

[Scorus]

Okay, changed my mind for campaign reasons: I want Entarios interacting with the High Priest of Orgorvale PC instead of the Thane of Apple Lane PC, so she will be in charge of temple relations (mostly building support from the non-city temples scattered around Dragon Pass). The venerable, above-the-fray Dunorl Brandgorsson will work with the tribes and cities.

Thanks for all the great ideas and suggestions!

[Techpriest]

Oddly enough one of the more interesting choices for this role of 'negotiator' would be a Daka Fal cultist from one of the tribes in question. Being able to summon ancestors to put their opinion about things to the test is a rather useful trick. It can also get you some precedents of what has happened before. Issaries, Daka Fal, and Lhankor Mhy tag team would cover most of the bases, at least in my opinion. 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

2 hours ago, Techpriest said:

Oddly enough one of the more interesting choices for this role of 'negotiator' would be a Daka Fal cultist from one of the tribes in question. Being able to summon ancestors to put their opinion about things to the test is a rather useful trick. It can also get you some precedents of what has happened before. Issaries, Daka Fal, and Lhankor Mhy tag team would cover most of the bases, at least in my opinion. 

A good idea.  Just remember that ancestors might be biased or ignorant about events during their lives.  Nothing says they are all knowledgeable truth tellers.

[French Desperate WindChild]

21 hours ago, Techpriest said:

Oddly enough one of the more interesting choices for this role of 'negotiator' would be a Daka Fal cultist from one of the tribes in question. Being able to summon ancestors to put their opinion about things to the test is a rather useful trick. It can also get you some precedents of what has happened before. Issaries, Daka Fal, and Lhankor Mhy tag team would cover most of the bases, at least in my opinion. 

Never ask the too old traditionalists when you bring new perspectives (draconic, west, even moonish anti red emperor, praxians) you will be disappointed by their answers 😛 

but yes if there was no new philosophy with you that could work too