Trifletraxor Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I strongly belive Chaosium will need to provide some strong official settings for Basic Roleplaying, to have the great success we are all hoping for. Generic supplement can only get you so far, as they usually lack some of the flavour you can get with a setting. For the sci-fi setting, there is allready a monograph out there, which I think would fit perfectly: Cthulhu Rising. Cthulhu Rising is a sci-fi setting 300 years into the future, where big corporations are exploring the stars and colonizing new planets. The players groups are usually either civilians, employees of one of the corporations, or space marines. 3 campaigns have allready been written for this game and is available for the Cthulhu Rising website, together with lots of other material free for download. The setting startet as a pure BRP setting, but was later released as Cthulhu Rising, because some inspiration is taken from the Cthulhu Mythos. The feel I get is more like Aliens than Lovecraft though. Have a look at their website: CTHULHU RISING: Horror Roleplaying in a Dark Future What do you think? Could this be something we should push Chaosium to make the official BRP sci-fi setting? To me, it looks extremely interesting. SGL. Quote Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub! 116/420. High Priest.
Joseph Paul Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 On the one hand I don't want to see Cthulhu taint everything that Chaosium does with BRP. I was dissappointed to see the amount of Cthuloid references in Superworld years ago. I thought that some more original material and not a rehash of the Mythos would have helped that game win some more adherents.So Cthulhu Rising would have to be scrubbed clean of the Mythos for me to be interested. As for any similarity to 2300AD, I don't see what the problem would be. 2300AD is dead so filling its 'hard science colonial adventure in space' niche would probably be a good idea. Quote __________________ Joseph Paul "Nothing partys like a rental" explains the enduring popularity of prostitution.:eek:
Sarge Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I'm biased as I have written a couple of games for John Ossoways Cthulhu Rising website. But I think it works as a setting, and is certainly a lot more interesting than some of the other Cthulhuish out there. I agree with Josephs Paul Points about Cthulhu tainting a lot of BRP stuff, but I think it works for CR. Besides the settings flexible enough to take a non mythos game, or campaign. Just my tuppence worth... PS: Hello by the way First post on this Forum. Quote
Trifletraxor Posted October 22, 2007 Author Posted October 22, 2007 It is a good book though but would, I think, suit BRP as a setting book with the sci-fi setting promoted and the cthulhu element removed ... On the one hand I don't want to see Cthulhu taint everything that Chaosium does with BRP. So Cthulhu Rising would have to be scrubbed clean of the Mythos for me to be interested. The name would maybe have to be changed and direct references to Lovecraft stuff erased for it to be accepted as a Basic Roleplaying and not Call of Cthulhu setting, but I think the mythos inspiration could stay put so it stayed a sci-fi horror game. Alien races and monsters encountered out in the galaxy is all that is needed for that. The mythos inspiration is what makes it feel more like Aliens than Star Trek (or traditional Call, it doesn't feel like that at all). I'm biased as I have written a couple of games for John Ossoways Cthulhu Rising website. But I think it works as a setting, and is certainly a lot more interesting than some of the other Cthulhuish out there. I agree with Josephs Paul Points about Cthulhu tainting a lot of BRP stuff, but I think it works for CR. Besides the settings flexible enough to take a non mythos game, or campaign. Just my tuppence worth... PS: Hello by the way First post on this Forum. Hi Sarge! Welcome to BRP Central! What games have you written for Cthulhu Rising? Cheers, Sverre. Quote Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub! 116/420. High Priest.
drohem Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I agree that anything Cthulhu should be kept out of the new BRP system. I do think that a scrubbed down version of the Sanity rules should be included as an option in the new BRP system. For example, if a BRP character ecounters something terrifying like alien entity, werewolf, demons, etc., then it may be possible to loose some Sanity and/or move closer towards mental instability. I think that this would be a great optional rule which could help set the tone for a horror setting in fantasy, modern, or space opera genres without being tied to the Cthulhu mythos. I like the concept of using a hard sci-fi campaign setting as the official campaign for official BRP products. This would break away from the RPG industry standard of a "classic" fantasy setting as the standard or default campaign setting for official products released in that line. Quote BRP Ze 32/420
Steffworthington Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 As for any similarity to 2300AD, I don't see what the problem would be. 2300AD is dead so filling its 'hard science colonial adventure in space' niche would probably be a good idea. As a contributor to '2320AD' by QLI (I drew all the logos) I'd have to disagree. http://www.travellerrpg.com/2320/ Also, there are a number of hard sci-fi games out there- http://www.sjgames.com/transhuman/ http://www.lightspeed-rpg.com/ http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_119.html What BRP needs is a completely NEW sci-fi idea (or as new as you can get). Either something really different by someone talented or a new licence.. or an old one (Ringworld 2 anyone?) Quote
drohem Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I would really like to see Aliens and the Space Marines done again. The Leading Edge game system was too cumbersome and detracted from the experience. If the Aliens license cannot be obtained, then maybe a campaign similar to TSR's Bughunt from the Amazing Engines line could be done. Halo done in BRP would be cool as well. Hehe...I like hard sci-fi military type campaigns. Quote BRP Ze 32/420
Sorloc Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I agree that anything Cthulhu should be kept out of the new BRP system. I do think that a scrubbed down version of the Sanity rules should be included as an option in the new BRP system. For example, if a BRP character ecounters something terrifying like alien entity, werewolf, demons, etc., then it may be possible to loose some Sanity and/or move closer towards mental instability. I think that this would be a great optional rule which could help set the tone for a horror setting in fantasy, modern, or space opera genres without being tied to the Cthulhu mythos. I'm not really sure about the SANity thing... having a timebomb on your character fits 'Call', but not much else. I've always used a Fear Resistance in addition to other Resistance attributes, that could be improved. I believe that perhaps SAN could be used in other settings, if you simply get a mental disadvantage at 0, severity based on how long you're at 0 before being able to recuperate. I had a player whose character, Juliette, almost drowned. The player elected to take a phobia of water after that. Very sensible, and great roleplaying. The GM shouldn't have to *inflict* such things upon PCs; the player should step up and treat their character like a real person and take appropriate action. I like the concept of using a hard sci-fi campaign setting as the official campaign for official BRP products. This would break away from the RPG industry standard of a "classic" fantasy setting as the standard or default campaign setting for official products released in that line. But sci-fi just doesn't sell like fantasy, unfortunately. Quote The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done." George Carlin (1937 - 2008) _____________ (92/420)
Sarge Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Hi Sarge! Welcome to BRP Central! What games have you written for Cthulhu Rising? 'ello. I wrote the Dark Harvest stuff for the website, contributed to the ColSec Doc, plus the current Drakestown sourcebook. (though a revised version of that supplement is on the way with the hepl of Carnage Lee.) There are a few more games in the pipeline. Back to Topic. I think Cthulhu rising strength is that it can be a good background for a pure BRP setting or, as it is now, an alternative setting for CoC. I like that choice. Quote
drohem Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Well, I did say I would like to see a "scrubbed" down version of the Sanity rules. I think that some of CoC Sanity effects would be over the top for other genres and styles, but are fitting to that style and genre. It would something along the lines of minor phobias and quirks are gained by the character. Let's face it, unless the gamer is experienced and a roleplaying focused person, then most run-of-the-mill gamers aren't going to add something "bad" or negative to their precious character, LOL. I agree that sci-fi campaign settings just are not a money-maker for the RPG industry like generic fantasy settings. Too bad. Quote BRP Ze 32/420
Joseph Paul Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 As a contributor to '2320AD' by QLI (I drew all the logos) I'd have to disagree. http://www.travellerrpg.com/2320/ Well color me surprised! If it was actually for (the still dead) 2300AD and not T20 I might even give it a look. Also, there are a number of hard sci-fi games out there- http://www.sjgames.com/transhuman/ Transhumanist ideals are not everything. Interesting. It looks like Classic Traveller in that it wants to enable all manner of Sci-Fi tropes. I doubt its dedication to being Hard SF though. This review completely pans High Frontiers. I don't get your point in adding it as if it is a bad hard SF game then there is room for a good hard SF game. Would that come with a cigarette to smoke after the session? What BRP needs is a completely NEW sci-fi idea (or as new as you can get). Either something really different by someone talented or a new licence.. or an old one (Ringworld 2 anyone?) You mean the way that fantasy systems need a completely new Sword & Sorcery idea to be competitive? In actuality I do not see your point in condemning Hard SF as a background for a BRP Space setting. I certainly don't see that niche being exploited to the fullest it could be. BTW RIngworld isn't going to happen. The license is locked up in the movie rights and that project isn't going anywhere. Quote __________________ Joseph Paul "Nothing partys like a rental" explains the enduring popularity of prostitution.:eek:
Trifletraxor Posted October 22, 2007 Author Posted October 22, 2007 I like the concept of using a hard sci-fi campaign setting as the official campaign for official BRP products. This would break away from the RPG industry standard of a "classic" fantasy setting as the standard or default campaign setting for official products released in that line. Since BRP will be a generic ruleset with 4 typical settings: Fantasy/historic, modern, superhero & sci-fi, I think there's room for 4 official settings here. Mythic Iceland is underway from Chaosium allready. What I like about Cthulhu Rising as the sci-fi setting (in addition to looking like a REALLY interesting setting), is that it is allready made for BRP (lots of stuff ready for print) and allows for highly versatile play (3 main types: civilian, corporate employees & space marines). SGL. Quote Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub! 116/420. High Priest.
Simlasa Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I've read through most of the Cthulhu Rising stuff on the website and think it's a pretty decent 'middle tech' science fiction setting. Chaosium could do a lot worse than to take it on as an 'official' one. Military science fiction isn't my favorite flavor but a lot of people like it. I'm tempted to agree that I'd prefer it to have the Cthulhu scrubbed out of it... but then I remember that Lovecraft was a big influence on Giger and his designs for the original aliens. Somehow I think that it would be an easier sell of the alien menace was 'Lovecraftian' without being overtly related to the Mythos... kind of like Alien/Aliens/Species. I'd be inclined to agree that a fantasy setting might be more... imperative, but I don't know of any similar readymade fantasy BRP settings that are nearly as interesting as Cthulhu Rising is for Sci Fi. As an aside, High Colonies was a pretty neat RPG setting... the rules might have not be all that, but in the way-back we played some nifty mini-campaigns there (using Traveller rules IIRC). Quote
Trifletraxor Posted October 22, 2007 Author Posted October 22, 2007 Military science fiction is my favorite flavor but a lot of people like it. With this one military science fiction is an option, with the space marines. The three campaigns that are written are one for each of the typical player groups, one for civilians, one for corporate-employees and one for space marines. I'm tempted to agree that I'd prefer it to have the Cthulhu scrubbed out of it... but then I remember that Lovecraft was a big influence on Giger and his designs for the original aliens. Somehow I think that it would be an easier sell of the alien menace was 'Lovecraftian' without being overtly related to the Mythos... kind of like Alien/Aliens/Species. I fully agree with this. To sell as a Basic Roleplaying setting (not a Cthulhu setting), maybe the system name would have to be changed and obvious Lovecraftian references changed (names basically). I'll go hear with the author what he has to say. SGL. Quote Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub! 116/420. High Priest.
SDLeary Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Cthulhu Rising would probably be the best route. Scrubbing the mythos references and calling the beasties aliens would not only be expedient, but would provide the game with a well made setting. Is it Aliens/2300 like? YES! Which means you can run Traveller like games, though a bit low tech for that genre; Aliens/2300 middle tech reach-for-the-stars type games; and if you play on the core world/worlds, you might also be able to due Cyberpunk. Firefly like stuff comes to mind too. How about "Torchlight" as a fantasy setting? A re-edit would have to be done, of course. Cthulhu monsters fit right-in in a fantasy setting as demon types. Fantasy Europe would be gritty enough for BRP. Also, using the powers and magic options, some could do something ala ArsMagica if thats your type of thing. Yes, I'm talking about CDA (it is currently OOP after all), perhaps with the fully revised/completed Pagan Call scenario. SDLeary Quote
Steffworthington Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Well color me surprised! If it was actually for (the still dead) 2300AD and not T20 I might even give it a look. You're comment was regarding the setting, not the rules. The setting is still nearly identical. Transhumanist ideals are not everything. i mentioned it because you implied we needed more and that there was a vaccum of such settings Interesting. It looks like Classic Traveller in that it wants to enable all manner of Sci-Fi tropes. I doubt its dedication to being Hard SF though. You've just contradicted yourself. Wants to 'enable all manner of sci-fi tropes'. How did you think that hard sci-fi might not be one of them? This review completely pans High Frontiers. I don't get your point in adding it as if it is a bad hard SF game then there is room for a good hard SF game. Would that come with a cigarette to smoke after the session? I'm adding it as a 'hard sf' game. good or bad it illustrates my point that I laid out a couple of paragraphs above. I personally didint like transhuman space or high colonies and largely agree with the review. the point is, it's still an example of such a setting. You mean the way that fantasy systems need a completely new Sword & Sorcery idea to be competitive? In actuality I do not see your point in condemning Hard SF as a background for a BRP Space setting. I certainly don't see that niche being exploited to the fullest it could be. BTW RIngworld isn't going to happen. The license is locked up in the movie rights and that project isn't going anywhere. yes. they do. I wasn't condemning hard sf as a background (its the only SF I'll play) but if BRP is, as its guessed, to kick start Chaosiums rise back into fortune then I want them to get it right by having a setting that'll be unusual enough to last. Cthulhu is almost unique...thats why its lasted. If BRP was to have an SF setting then id prefer it to be hard sf. There are many examples of sf games that have bit the dust (cyberpunk). Ringworld was a suggestion, not a call to arms. if I could wave a magic wand and have an unavailable lisence to use...it would be Blade Runner... or any of PKD's novels. Quote
Enpeze Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I really like the Cthulhu Rising setting. Its a great read and there are several adventures and campaigns for it. Years ago I played a series of adventures with a cthulhoid taint in the 2300AD setting and CT remembers me alot of these games. I would be very pleased if CT becomes something more "official". At the moment there are no real good blends between Scifi and Cthulhoid horror. But the mix is very attractive I think. The more contrast is between the "real world" and the "horror world" the better. I would not like a gothic SF horror game that much as CT. But the harder the SF the better. Mongoose has one genre mix in its pipeline called Cthulhutech which looks....well...bad and pulpy. :eek: Additionally you can always play CT as hard SF game without horror elements, but with BRP rules. (ala Bladerunner, Outland or Aliens) Quote
Ottomancer Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Hullo BRP Central. I am glad Cthulhu Rising has support out there, but I agree that BRP should have a non-mythos sci-fi setting as its 'standard' sci-fi setting. With regard to whether my setting would work stripped of its Lovecraft influences, I have polled the visitors to my site and the majority say they'd play in the setting whether there was a mythos element or not. Cthulhu Rising just looks like hard sci-fi. I mean, we have artificial gravity and such. It is only hard sci-fi up to a point - we bend the rules for dramatic purposes. With regard to Cthulhu Rising being high-tech and/or shiny though: I'd disagree. Star Trek is what I would define as high-tech and shiny. I don't actually own a copy of 2300. I have played it, and I liked playing it, but the only version of Traveller I own is the classic era with the original setting - the little A5 black and red books. Free Trader Beowulf and all that... It's all down to personal choice in the end. A lot of people enjoy playing Cthulhu Rising, but it's not for everyone, and that's cool by me. :-) Quote River of Heaven - Science Fiction Roleplaying in the 28th Century http://riverofheaven.d101games.co.uk/
Trifletraxor Posted October 22, 2007 Author Posted October 22, 2007 Hullo BRP Central. I am glad Cthulhu Rising has support out there, but I agree that BRP should have a non-mythos sci-fi setting as its 'standard' sci-fi setting. With regard to whether my setting would work stripped of its Lovecraft influences, I have polled the visitors to my site and the majority say they'd play in the setting whether there was a mythos element or not. So you've considered a non-mythos Cthulhu Rising allready? How would the setting change if stripped of its Lovecraft influences & mythos element? Would it be something like the difference between RuneQuest 3rd edition & the Basic Roleplaying Monographs (essentially just name-changes), or would it alter the setting drastically? I quite like the setting as it is, and hope it would still have the same "feel" to it. Cheers, Sverre. Quote Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub! 116/420. High Priest.
Ottomancer Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 So you've considered a non-mythos Cthulhu Rising allready? How would the setting change if stripped of its Lovecraft influences & mythos element? Would it be something like the difference between RuneQuest 3rd edition & the Basic Roleplaying Monographs (essentially just name-changes), or would it alter the setting drastically? I quite like the setting as it is, and hope it would still have the same "feel" to it. Cheers, Sverre. I guess the only way to find out if it would work would be for me (or someone else) to write something for Cthulhu Rising, but without an overtly mythos plotline. There are quite a few people who think that Cthulhu Rising is purely military sci-fi. There are three campaigns available from the website. One is pure military, one is aimed at civilian investigators, and a third is aimed at investigators being police officers. As far as I am aware, there two sci-fi monographs for Call of Cthulhu in print at the moment, and a third on the way very soon. You could argue that out of these three, the only one that overtly relies on the Cthulhu Mythos for its setting is Cthulhu Endtimes. Cthulhu Rising and from what I have read of Cthulhu Adventus could probably both work with the mythos elements removed. This isn't a criticism of either setting at all - it makes them both strong settings IMO in that the settings themselves are interesting enough to play in anyway. Quote River of Heaven - Science Fiction Roleplaying in the 28th Century http://riverofheaven.d101games.co.uk/
Steffworthington Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Cthulhu Rising and from what I have read of Cthulhu Adventus could probably both work with the mythos elements removed. This isn't a criticism of either setting at all - it makes them both strong settings IMO in that the settings themselves are interesting enough to play in anyway. Thanks for that! It was the point I was trying to get across and you've just paid me a huge compliment! I think CR is 'Us against the mythos' or with it removed, a pretty good sci-fi setting in the mould of 2300AD, 'Gurps Space', Uplift, etc I think CA is 'Us against the mythos... and ourselves.' with a juxtaposition of 2 evils and a cloud of mistrust and despair. With the mythos I've imagined it as a kinda Delta Green/Stargate/1984/Equilibrium crossover. Without it it's strong suit (anti-fascism and betrayal of the ideals it sets for its populace) becomes a little stronger and more direct. I see it as more like the WEG game 'Price of freedom', Reichstar, or a serious and dark version of Paranoia. Quote
Ottomancer Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Thanks for that! It was the point I was trying to get across and you've just paid me a huge compliment! I think CR is 'Us against the mythos' or with it removed, a pretty good sci-fi setting in the mould of 2300AD, 'Gurps Space', Uplift, etc No worries. I wanted to have a play of CA at Furnace 2007 but didn't have time as I only found out about the event shortly beforehand and had stuff at home that I had to get back to Saturday afternoon. Quote River of Heaven - Science Fiction Roleplaying in the 28th Century http://riverofheaven.d101games.co.uk/
Joseph Paul Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Quote: Well color me surprised! If it was actually for (the still dead) 2300AD and not T20 I might even give it a look. Stefworthington wrote: You're comment was regarding the setting, not the rules. The setting is still nearly identical. My comment is in two parts: first surprise that it was being published and secondly the observation that for me personaly it isn’t worth it with T20 stats. Quote: Transhumanist ideals are not everything. Stefworthington wrote: i mentioned it because you implied we needed more and that there was a vaccum of such settings I implied no such thing. I stated that with one setting effectively dead there should be no issues for a BRP product that was similar to it. I made no assertions about any abundance or dearth of hard SF settings. . Quote: Interesting. It looks like Classic Traveller in that it wants to enable all manner of Sci-Fi tropes. I doubt its dedication to being Hard SF though. Stefworthington wrote: You've just contradicted yourself. Wants to 'enable all manner of sci-fi tropes'. How did you think that hard sci-fi might not be one of them? ‘Wants to’ is not the same thing as ‘succeeds at’. From what I can see of the rules it doesn’t support Hard SF all that well. I definitely get the feeling that it does not concern itself with the actual business of living and working in space. Further the rules are drawn from an iteration of the HERO system. They are much more concerned with game effects than actual science and engineering. Of course that impression comes from the lite version of the rules so I could be wrong which is why I stated that “I doubt its dedication” rather than flatly stating that it was not hard SF. Quote: This review completely pans High Frontiers. I don't get your point in adding it as if it is a bad hard SF game then there is room for a good hard SF game. Would that come with a cigarette to smoke after the session? Stefworthington wrote: I'm adding it as a 'hard sf' game. good or bad it illustrates my point that I laid out a couple of paragraphs above. I personally didint like transhuman space or high colonies and largely agree with the review. the point is, it's still an example of such a setting. Well it would be germane if I had actually made any claim that there was a glut of Hard SF games which I did not. I figure it as a pretty weak argument against BRP doing a Hard SF setting. ‘Oh my! Some one else has already released a product that failed to meet the expectations of the Hard SF crowd. That means that we shouldn’t even try.’ Quote: You mean the way that fantasy systems need a completely new Sword & Sorcery idea to be competitive? In actuality I do not see your point in condemning Hard SF as a background for a BRP Space setting. I certainly don't see that niche being exploited to the fullest it could be. BTW RIngworld isn't going to happen. The license is locked up in the movie rights and that project isn't going anywhere. Stefworthington wrote: yes. they do. I wasn't condemning hard sf as a background (its the only SF I'll play) but if BRP is, as its guessed, to kick start Chaosiums rise back into fortune then I want them to get it right by having a setting that'll be unusual enough to last. Cthulhu is almost unique...thats why its lasted. If BRP was to have an SF setting then id prefer it to be hard sf. There are many examples of sf games that have bit the dust (cyberpunk). Ringworld was a suggestion, not a call to arms. if I could wave a magic wand and have an unavailable lisence to use...it would be Blade Runner... or any of PKD's novels. Well you have certainly come across as hostile and defeatist of BRP using a Hard SF setting since your earlier argument seems to be that since there already are Hard SF settings out there, some of which have failed, BRP needs to stay out of it and search for something ‘new’. As it is you have shown that Hard SF is a viable setting that people want to play. I would caution to beware of uniqueness. It cuts both ways; while it can be attractive it can also be a turn off for others by being too strange and new. Well written, detailed settings with strong story arcs are a better bet in my estimation. My comment re Ringworld was a lament not a slam. As a contributor to '2320AD' by QLI (I drew all the logos) I'd have to disagree. http://www.travellerrpg.com/2320/ Also, there are a number of hard sci-fi games out there- http://www.sjgames.com/transhuman/ http://www.lightspeed-rpg.com/ http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_119.html What BRP needs is a completely NEW sci-fi idea (or as new as you can get). Either something really different by someone talented or a new licence.. or an old one (Ringworld 2 anyone?) Quote __________________ Joseph Paul "Nothing partys like a rental" explains the enduring popularity of prostitution.:eek:
Trifletraxor Posted October 23, 2007 Author Posted October 23, 2007 To me, what it boils down to is either: 1) License a sci-fi setting (cost money) and try to make some thing BRPish out of it, hoping it will be good, 2) Wait for someone to make something completely new and hope it will be good, OR 3) Use a good existing BRP sci-fi setting that shows a lot of promise and which allready have a lot of support, and expand upon that one. To me the choice seems really simple. :cool: SGL. Quote Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub! 116/420. High Priest.
Enpeze Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 How about Blue Planet? Quite hard SF but with interesting creative twists and profundly researched in its scientific background. As far as I know, its in the hands of Fantasy Flight Games at the moment. Its original rule system is not that bad and rather gritty. (but no BRP of course) So a conversion should be easy. Quote
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