Increasing Spell Repertoire

[Tywyll]

Am I correct that Int spirits aren't a thing anymore?

If so, other than matrices and allied spirits, how do you increase the amount of battle magic/free Int a character can store?

[Kloster]

Inscribe spells for sorcery, Enhance INT spell.

For spirit magic, apart allied spirits and matrix, CHA seems to be the limit.

Kloster

[Scott A]

Sorcerers can "forget" spells, then recall them later with a meditation session. It's a bit unclear whether forgotten spells count towards the INT cap, but I think that they don't.

[Ultor]

8 hours ago, Kloster said:

Enhance INT spell

The small trouble with this is that it requires a school/grimoire that teaches the Summon technique and the Fire rune. LM does teach Enhance INT, but starting LM sorcerers don't have access to either that technique or rune, so they need to seek out teachers or grimoires. You can handwave this away by saying every LM temple has a copy of the Torvald Fragments that you can study to learn those secrets, or you can say that only a few masters exist who teach LM cultists these secrets and make finding one an adventure in itself.

Lunar sorcerers are explicitly referenced as having access to Fire rune sorcery.

We can assume that many Malkioni will take the Fire rune as their beginning elemental rune for precisely this reason.

So I have a small issue with this spell, which is so essential, funneling sorcery towards Fire rune spells. It's for this reason that I'm looking at replacing Free INT with a version of Sandy's Presence rules.

[Tywyll]

4 minutes ago, Ultor said:

 

So I have a small issue with this spell, which is so essential, funneling sorcery towards Fire rune spells. It's for this reason that I'm looking at replacing Free INT with a version of Sandy's Presence rules.

Honestly I was pretty shocked that they went back to Free Int. It seems so weird that characters are so bound to a single die roll no matter how experienced they are.

Of course I think it's dumb that INT can't be increased as other attributes can be. It's really out-dated thinking.

I would love to hear your ideas on how to use Sandy's rules with the new edition though.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Tywyll

[Ultor]

Just now, Tywyll said:

I would love to hear your ideas on how to use Sandy's rules with the new edition though.

I have a rough draft of the rules that I need to discuss with my players and then playtest. I'll post them here if they seem to work once we've knocked the rough edges off.

[Tywyll]

Just now, Ultor said:

I have a rough draft of the rules that I need to discuss with my players and then playtest. I'll post them here if they seem to work once we've knocked the rough edges off.

If you decide you want an outside pair of eyes to have a look, PM me!

[Kloster]

29 minutes ago, Ultor said:

The small trouble with this is that it requires a school/grimoire that teaches the Summon technique and the Fire rune. LM does teach Enhance INT, but starting LM sorcerers don't have access to either that technique or rune, so they need to seek out teachers or grimoires. You can handwave this away by saying every LM temple has a copy of the Torvald Fragments that you can study to learn those secrets, or you can say that only a few masters exist who teach LM cultists these secrets and make finding one an adventure in itself.

I was only giving an option, not saying it is easy. But LM teaches Command that implies all other techniques. The fire rune is a problem, though, for beginning LM sorcerors.

Kloster

[Austin]

53 minutes ago, Ultor said:

I have a rough draft of the rules that I need to discuss with my players and then playtest. I'll post them here if they seem to work once we've knocked the rough edges off.

If you're willing I'd be curious to see those too. I really like the Presence & manipulation rules, since a sorcerer's spell skill actually corresponds with how good they are at magic. I've been working on my own writeup (for an ongoing, severely houseruled RQ3 game, not RQG) melding Petersen's Malkioni rules and Tsolyanu rules, and I'd love to see another person's take on it.

[PhilHibbs]

2 hours ago, Ultor said:

The small trouble with this is that it requires a school/grimoire that teaches the Summon technique and the Fire rune. LM does teach Enhance INT, but starting LM sorcerers don't have access to either that technique or rune, so they need to seek out teachers or grimoires.

They can, if they are a philosopher. You have a free choice of rune and technique.

[Ultor]

23 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

They can, if they are a philosopher. You have a free choice of rune and technique.

Again, I'm worried that this means we should expect most of the wandering philosophers of Sartar to be students of Fire/Sky, because incentives matter, even in a mythic world. That just doesn't seem right to me.

ETA: One way to rationalize this would be to have LM philosopher-sages be regarded as Stargazers or something, and insist they take Celestial Lore. I can just about see that working.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Ultor

[PhilHibbs]

4 minutes ago, Ultor said:

Again, I'm worried that this means we should expect most of the wandering philosophers of Sartar to be students of Fire/Sky, because incentives matter, even in a mythic world. That just doesn't seem right to me.

I'm not convinced that Enhance INT is such a game changer. You can get 4 points of INT, I think. Is that worth shaping your repertoire entirely towards that objective?

On the other hand, the Fire Rune is quite useful in and of itself anyway, so why not.

If you want both Enhance INT and Steal Breath, then that's both Air and Fire which are not related. So you could go for Water instead, which has both Air and Fire as minor runes.

Maybe once the other Enhance spells are detailed, they will be attractive in their own way giving incentives to study other elements.

[Ultor]

11 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'm not convinced that Enhance INT is such a game changer. You can get 4 points of INT, I think. Is that worth shaping your repertoire entirely towards that objective?

It's the difference between a spell lasting a week and 2 seasons.

Or, for sorcerers with not much Free INT, it's the difference between 20 minutes and 6 hours - which is extremely important if you're about to enter that EWF tomb and don't know how long you'll be in there, and feel a few points of Ward Against Weapons could be useful.

I'd say yes.

[Jeff]

Fire/Sky spells include the study of the sky, celestial affairs, etc. It is the elemental realm of pure intellect according to many schools of thought. I see nothing wrong with encouraging LM sorcerers and philosophers to study the Runic Technique of the Light of Knowledge. 

[jajagappa]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 2:43 PM, Ultor said:

ETA: One way to rationalize this would be to have LM philosopher-sages be regarded as Stargazers or something, and insist they take Celestial Lore.

And there are some who are, at least at the great Temple of Knowledge in Nochet.

[Ultor]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:12 AM, Jeff said:

I see nothing wrong with encouraging LM sorcerers and philosophers to study the Runic Technique of the Light of Knowledge.

I'd forgotten completely about the Mistress of the Light of Knowledge - a clear mythic incentive for LM sages to study the Fire/Sky Rune. Presumably the Celestial Lore stacks of the LM temples are kept in the attic.