Better Settings for Superworld

[Atgxtg]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:44 AM, GAZZA said:

Does Superworld not have non-combat movement as cheaper than combat movement? I doubt Superman needs to leap 1/8th of a mile in combat.

I believe it did do something like double move rate outside of combat but there were quite a few borderline cases in the comics. For instance jumping up to a bridge while outrunning flood waters after a dam burst, or leaping to an airplane while some bad guy is leaning out the door shooting at him.

 

What Superwolrd didn't have but probably should was a modifier to leaping and running based on excess STR. Basically is someone is strong enough to be able to lift five tons, then they could naturally jump higher than a normal person. So Supes should probably have a few levels of Leap for free.

 

I'd also question if Superman "had the hots" for Lois back in the early days. It was more the reverse (she kissed him and didn't want him to get away), and probably a bigger failing.

 

 

[Simlasa]

4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

What Superwolrd didn't have but probably should was a modifier to leaping and running based on excess STR. Basically is someone is strong enough to be able to lift five tons, then they could naturally jump higher than a normal person. So Supes should probably have a few levels of Leap for free.

Which also implies, or would want for, impunity for related situations... such as running at high speeds and accurately dodging (or not) bystanders/traffic/large bugs/small dogs. Either he's invulnerable, but dangerous... or he has incredible reflexes.
Also, the guy who can lift a car has more than just strength, he's got a skeleton that can support that weight and whatever other abilities/complications that might convey.

Unless you want to do what the comics do and not think about these things, until you do, and then forget about them until you do again.

[Ian Absentia]

I support the case for keeping super powers à la carte.  Sure, on one hand you have Golden Age Superman and Silver Age Hulk who, by dint of sheer might, can effectively fly with a leap.  But then you have other super-strong types like Colossus or Juggernaut whom I don't think I've ever seen depicted as being able to leap to any great effect.

The basic rationale for buying powers and abilities individually, rather than deriving them from stats, is to make more comprehensive characters come at a cost.  Want that super leaping ability?  Find a way to pay for it against buying other powers, because it doesn't come free.

That said, it's worth nothing that, in Superworld, buying your DEX up high enough effectively provided extra attacks.  DEX 21 was the minimum bar for all of my characters, with an additional action being permitted on every Action Rank ending with a 1 (i.e., 1, 11, 21, 31...) independent of Super Speed, Rapidfire, or Simultaneous Attacks.  It's expensive, though, so 31 was my absolute cap, reserved for only the likes of Spider-Man and such.

!i!

Edited March 31, 2020 by Ian Absentia

[GAZZA]

9 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

I support the case for keeping super powers à la carte.  Sure, on one hand you have Golden Age Superman and Silver Age Hulk who, by dint of sheer might, can effectively fly with a leap.  But then you have other super-strong types like Colossus or Juggernaut whom I don't think I've ever seen depicted as being able to leap to any great effect.

The basic rationale for buying powers and abilities individually, rather than deriving them from stats, is to make more comprehensive characters come at a cost.  Want that super leaping ability?  Find a way to pay for it against buying other powers, because it doesn't come free.

That said, it's worth nothing that, in Superworld, buying your DEX up high enough effectively provided extra attacks.  DEX 21 was the minimum bar for all of my characters, with an additional action being permitted on every Action Rank ending with a 1 (i.e., 1, 11, 21, 31...) independent of Super Speed, Rapidfire, or Simultaneous Attacks.  It's expensive, though, so 31 was my absolute cap, reserved for only the likes of Spider-Man and such.

Champions used to have "built in powers" to a certain extent. Firstly you had Figured Characteristics (that were based on your Primary Characteristics, for example your Endurance was based on twice your Consitution, though it could be increased separately). Secondly, you could jump further based on extra Strength.

The latest edition dispenses with both, for much the reason you supply. The old days, Colossus wouldn't have been a leaper because he'd have bought most of his extra strength as Density Increase (which increases mass as well as strength, so your ability to leap didn't increase), but newer editions have abandoned the idea of buying "always on" height or weight as powers, so the change was necessary.

A surprising number of supers games do not have any easy way to increase the number of attacks you get per round, but in fairness if you actually could move as fast as the Flash then it would become very difficult to play out "properly":

OK, Superfast Dude, it's your go. Roll your twenty thousand attacks.

That's the reason most suggest simulating it with something like Autofire or just flat out pretending it is equivalent to single attack of higher magnitude.

[Atgxtg]

18 hours ago, Simlasa said:

Which also implies, or would want for, impunity for related situations... such as running at high speeds and accurately dodging (or not) bystanders/traffic/large bugs/small dogs. Either he's invulnerable, but dangerous... or he has incredible reflexes.

Also, the guy who can lift a car has more than just strength, he's got a skeleton that can support that weight and whatever other abilities/complications that might convey.

Yes, to some extent (See below). I think that some of that could be handled by factoring in STR into the move rate, and into default armor value (i.e. anyone that can dish out a punch that does 1d3+5d6 can take throwing such a punch without breaking something, and has a body touch enough to shrug off punches for normal people). But we probably only want to go so far with that thinking, as the comics bends the natural laws as needed.

Perhaps something as simple as a point discount for buying related powers?

18 hours ago, Simlasa said:

 

Unless you want to do what the comics do and not think about these things, until you do, and then forget about them until you do again.

Yeah, that's the problem with thinking logically and applying physics to superheroes. It's a big can o' worms. Like the comics we are forced to draw a line somewhere as to how realistic we make it. Eventually it either becomes too complicated or so self contradictory that it breaks down. 

I think the best approach is probably to take things only to the point where they still look/seem believable, after allowing for the powers. Unfortunately that point actually varies depending on how much people understand about how and why things work. I remember talking with a friend and comic shop owner about a cover of a classic Superman comic where he is holding up a battleship. My friend didn't have a problem with the picture, as superman was strong enough to do it. I did have a problem as I knew the battleship wasn't strong enough to be lifted from one point and Superman would either break the bow off, or go right tough the battleship like a tack through a piece of cardboard.

[seneschal]

One theory is that Supes generates a forcefield that holds such objects together until he throws them or swats a baddie with them.  If the Hulk tried the same thing, the battleship would fall apart (with pieces bonking him on the noggin to boot).  😉

[Lloyd Dupont]

On 4/1/2020 at 7:41 AM, Simlasa said:

Which also implies, or would want for, impunity for related situations... such as running at high speeds and accurately dodging (or not) bystanders/traffic/large bugs/small dogs. Either he's invulnerable, but dangerous... or he has incredible reflexes.
Also, the guy who can lift a car has more than just strength, he's got a skeleton that can support that weight and whatever other abilities/complications that might convey.

Unless you want to do what the comics do and not think about these things, until you do, and then forget about them until you do again.

I am very often to give every one resistance to blunt damage equal to their damage bonus.. which would cater for many of those situations...

[Atgxtg]

17 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I am very often to give every one resistance to blunt damage equal to their damage bonus.. which would cater for many of those situations...

That's a good idea. Back in the RQ2 Gateway Bestiary, Sand Peterson used to tie the armor rating of most animals and creatures to their db. Typically some multiple of db depending on how much fur, scales, a creatures had. This approach was kept with most pre 21st century Chasoium stuff. A human punching a bear is probably going to hurt the bear's diet more than the bear.

 

I'd also consider having any actual armor (worn or superpower) count as half towards other types of damage. That way you don't have someone get dropped like a mook when a character shows up using some power that does damage that a character has no defense against. Plus it sort of makes sense that something like a WWII tank would offer some protection against a laser beam. The beam would still have to cut/melt though a couple of inches of steel. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Atgxtg

[Lloyd Dupont]

Speaking of which, I sometimes wonder how to make various damage type as interesting as they are in Borderlands 3.. No good idea yet.. But I am listening.. if anyone got some good idea on that topic?!  

[TRose]

 If you want to use Superworld to run something totally different. , I recently watched a series of Chinese Movies called Trek of the Mutants. Yes mutants in Ancient fantasy China.

 But I think Superworld would be a good fit if you want to  run a  Chinese  Wushu style game . I mean what other system beside a  Superhero one will let you run White Snake and Green snake?

[Travern]

12 hours ago, TRose said:

 But I think Superworld would be a good fit if you want to  run a  Chinese  Wushu style game . I mean what other system beside a  Superhero one will let you run White Snake and Green snake?

Robin Laws's Fung Shui is definitely suited for wushu.

[Ian Absentia]

On 6/10/2020 at 12:52 AM, Travern said:

Robin Laws's Fung Shui is definitely suited for wushu.

HeroQuest...er, QuestWorld...can do wuxia something fierce.  Superworld, frankly, is a little number-crunchy, but could still be fun once you get the set-up math out of the way.

!i!

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ian Absentia

[GAZZA]

The old Champions supplement Ninja Hero had some good stuff for Wuxia (most of it later incorporated into The Ultimate Martial Artist, and possibly again in the newest edition - I'm still on FRED mostly, though I do have the sixth edition rules). Champions is somewhat similar in crunchiness to Superworld, so I imagine it could be done.

Though I share your opinion @Ian Absentia that narrative systems like QuestWorld might well be a more apt fit for superhero gaming.

[alexraccoon]

On 3/31/2020 at 6:26 PM, Atgxtg said:

What Superwolrd didn't have but probably should was a modifier to leaping and running based on excess STR. Basically is someone is strong enough to be able to lift five tons, then they could naturally jump higher than a normal person. So Supes should probably have a few levels of Leap for free.

In Superworld Companion there is a table on page 52   Movement Speed Table that covers this.

[Simlasa]

On 6/9/2020 at 12:32 PM, TRose said:

But I think Superworld would be a good fit if you want to  run a  Chinese  Wushu style game . I mean what other system beside a  Superhero one will let you run White Snake and Green snake?

Yes, that sort of thing does feel like 'superheroes' with a different set of tropes.
Wild action, strange powers, but the characters not inherently infallible or invulnerable.
One anime I've kept in mind while reading Mythras' Mysticism Chapter (but also with Superworld in mind) is Basilisk... similar to Ninja Scroll... it's about a bunch of 'ninjas' with unique powers and physical traits. The story is pretty dark and tragic.