davecake

Among humans, I think that the inner core of the Spolites probably worshipped Subere as well, with Xentha/Netta the more common cult.

This leaves out her most important magic, IMO - she has Summon, Dismiss, and Command spells for a wide range of Darkness beings. These include well known being like darkness elementals and dehori, but many stranger and older things too, some of them entirely otherwise unknown. In RQ3 this included chonchons, hellions, hags, wraiths, lamiae, and ghoul spirits. In RQG it would include such beings as nyctalopes, Darkness demons, hags as Darkness nymphs, many other forms of dehori, gloom’s and living shadows, and all manner of others. And all sorts of other underworld beings - perhaps they can summon black horses or hell hounds. They know the things that live in the deepest Darkness, and the underworld. An encounter with Subere cultists should include strange and terrifying Darkness being. And in RQG they also have Absorbtion.

Darkness alone of all the Elements predates what we normally think of as matter. And so is primal Darkness is different from the other primal elements.

I’m very curious about where the Pentan Storm tradition came from, and how they relate to other Pentan cultural practices. And whether they are a pre-Seleric tradition that has grown, an innovation of Sheng, or a post-Seleric rejection of Solar worship. And how they might feel about the return of Sheng.

As @jajagappasays, the Cults book will substantially expand the information on the Lunars and Lunar empire cults. I would also recommend looking at the Armies and Enemies book from the JC for an idea of the diversity and range of the Lunar Empires military, including magical ones - having your characters face soldiers from a few known military units makes things seem a bit realer, much more like a big complicated empire than just a single mass of soldiers - and of course many, even most, of the Empires military are not initiates of Lunar religions. Note also that a few of the spells from the Lunar cults have already been published in the Red Book of Magic - and you can take a few educated guesses at which are which. Given that your PCs are not going to be in the Lunar cults themselves, that may be enough to wing it. For example, Yara Aranis is always depicted with 4 arms, and was conceived to fight the Pentan nomads, so give a priestess Sprout Arms and Terrify Horse and you have an interesting opponent. If it turns out a few things are not quite the same as the published cult, easy enough to explain it away as a variation/sub-cult/or result of individual heroquesting or a gift from a regimental spirit etc. See also the Meteor Swarm spirit magic spell for the Crater Makers, the Bat Wings, Fangs and Power Drain spells for the Crimson Bat, etc. Or just improvise with Irripi Ontor as Lhankor Mhy with Mind Blast and Madness, Jakaleel as shamans that also have access to Seven Mother’s magic and some interesting spirits (as well as normal shamanic abilities), etc. it’s close enough to work with until you get the Cults Book(s).

Six parts, five, or the different Doraddi set, etc - it’s all different cultural conceptions. Different ways of explaining this complex thing that is mortal existence (and the different sets of characteristics in various RPGs are the same sort of thing, for a different purpose). They aren’t even necessarily talking about the same thing. Ie the Dara Happans treat your physical body as one part of your ‘soul’ but of course everyone still has a physical body. Having different conceptions and terminology doesn’t mean anything changes. when the Lunars talk about the Seventh Soul, they mean the transcendant, pure consciousness, part of ourselves. It’s not our mind, it’s not our body, it’s not the bit that works magic (or can be normally changed by magic, except indirectly). It’s the process of Illumination. I don’t think they usually talk about gaining a Seventh Soul, they talk about awakening it, because it was always there. It’s a different way of thinking about it. Yelm, of course, is considered Illuminated, whatever that means for Gods (when we say a god is Illuminated, that might only be a metaphorical thing, that it has become possible to fully identify with Yelm, and with the All, at the same time. Gods may not have a single consciousness, and mystic truths are hard to communicate). But saying Yelm is Illuminated is the same as saying his Seventh Soul is awake, just different words. Other cultures use different terms for the same thing.

Some mystics conceptualise the Seventh Soul as being fully aware of your connection with the one, Universal Soul. There is only one Seventh Soul, everything is connected to it, most of us not in a way that we are conscious of. Awakening the Seventh Soul is experiencing that you are part of the one universal consciousness. We Are All Us.

Nils says one full year, not cumulative. A few of us are already working on an East Isles book, if you’d like to compare notes.

I think the laws are intrinsic to the process by the people of Danmalastan were created in the Fourth Action, and are not easily changed now. The Vadeli can’t quite escape them now. But the Brithini approach them with the attitude that following the laws as much as possible, and trying to follow them in spirit where they do not specify, is the right attitude. They try to be what they consider as much as possible close to the original first people, and try to return to and emulate the idealised past of Danmalastan (which some few of them remember) as much as possible. The Vadeli follow the laws to the letter (because they like being immortal), but push to their limits. They are in a new world, full of other beings, not in Danmalastan, and the laws do not guide them. Even in Danmalastan (which some very few of them may remember), they were the ones who yearned to explore outside of it. That, and the Vadeli are sociopaths, and the Brithini are just arch- conservatives, but still have some sense of altruism, if usually only for other Brithini.

No, it’s just easier with mortals, because the mortals have no idea what is really going on and don’t really understand Logic. They’ve totally tried to exploit all of them, especially the Mostali.

I think the idea that the Vadeli possibly asked Hrestol for permission to have sex hilarious. I also think there is an Admiralty law/ Sovereign citizen joke on there somewhere.

Some things I think are probably true about the Vadeli: in the modern era they sneak around many rules regarding the need for a Talar to make certain decisions by invoking the authority of a ships captain, laws possibly that originally were intended to apply to Waertagi (and are mentioned in the Abiding Book as such). This is why the only great leaders of the Vadeli we hear about in the modern day are Admirals. they have worked out that they can cast sorcery as Brown or Red caste, (possibly it’s not actually magically prohibited for the Brithini either, they just can’t see why you would try). But they can’t cast just any sorcery, they have to stick to certain restrictions on the spells that are caste appropriate. So Brown Vadeli can use some spells for manipulating base matter as essentially crafting magic (so that’s why your own clothing is strangling you, or their building is now crushing you), dealing with animals of all kinds (their enthusiasm for controlling creatures like blood birds as a warfare tactic), and various spells of deception (merchants are drones caste?). This may also mean some enchanting items as crafting magic. Sadly for the rest of us, this means that the Red Vadeli focus on sorcery directly for combat purposes, hurting others, and drawing blood, so they are restricted mostly to using the magic you least want them to have. so a lot of the worst and most notorious Vadeli magic, like mass undead production, could be Blue Vadeli only? So when they return, it will get bad very quickly. They also have access to some magic from their Viymorni heritage, to do with exploring. This is the Telendarian school magic, and the Vadeli connection is a large part of why exploring magic is banned by most Malkioni. Though they also managed to sneak stuff like Tap POW in there. And whether it comes from this, or via the marine loophole, they have a lot of useful ship and water magic. Vadeli love magic items, because they can be used without violating the laws. So so many of the Brown Vadeli like trading in magic items. If there is a sort of magic they are forbidden to cast, they can use a pagan magic item. The laws don’t state it has to be a Vadeli talar. This is why they made Hrestol a judge, so he could make certain decisions for them. But of course they don’t like giving a mortal power over them normally. So sometimes they will indulge in weird plots designed to force others to give them permission to do what they want. None of this changes that they are totally immortal genius sociopaths who think of most mortals as nothing but to exploit. But sometimes they are playing a game for goals you don’t understand with rules you don’t understand.

I find this quite misleading in its use of the word ‘simple’. While true, it doesn’t mean that the control and use and profit from the land in Esrolia isn’t subject to Byzantine and vicious politics and incredibly complex bureaucracy, but that all of takes place (at least in theory) within the Earth temples. Who include a hugely complex pantheon, at least ten or so major goddesses and literally thousands of minor ones (many of whom may turn up in person and have their own opinions, such as nymphs such as oreads or limoniads, and possibly be deeply embedded in the politics (such as heroic ancestors of various noble houses)). Especially in the current environment, with Esrolia on the brink of civil war between three factions that are all essentially factions within the Earth cults, arguing about their choice of allies. But yes, it’s the Earth temples that are in charge. In Esrolia, that’s a bit like saying ‘politics is simple, it’s the people with the power who make the decisions’.

I recently ran the Cradle using RQG, and I found it necessary to adapt them a bit here and there, mostly because they would have been a bit underpowered in RQG. But I also beefed up encounters by adding a few NPCs from elsewhere, and the RQ3 stats for tough opponents were still very much tough opponents (eg Coders, Sun County rune masters). A few rules changes *drastically* changed encounters, and I may have house ruled a few as a result (in particular, I dislike the RQG RAW that any Orlanthi who relies on woad will almost certainly die to a Sunspear).

Yes. I think this means developing the first sorcery spells to command spirits etc, rather than any interest in using shamanic methods themselves. Plus their expertise in Tap POW type spells, separating matter and energy to create zombies, etc. It also makes the modern Hrestoli expertise in anti-spirit techniques (eg the Furlandan school) seem just very slightly suspicious. Both seem quite typically Vadeli, yes. Though perhaps a bit more Blue Vadeli than typically Brown or Red.

Grandfather Mortal is a Godtime figure, and further more a God Learner construct - every culture has the story of the first mortal being (or beings, in some the first man and first woman are created simultaneously, or are effectively a hermaphroditic myth figure), but the individual myth figures vary (such as the East Isles lustful Iste, or the Kralorelan wild man Ebe. Perhaps the most extreme variation is that he is an aspect of Malkion. He dies in the Godtime (if he didn’t, he wouldn’t be mortal). In most cultures he then becomes a god of ancestry and mortality - but Grandfather Mortal is the name for this god before the separation. Daka Fal is the Praxian name for this god of mortality. He does have a separate Orlanthi name - Darhudan - but it seems pretty likely that the Orlanthi and Praxian traditions have got mixed together in Dragon Pass, especially his worship as a separate path is more prevalent in Prax. Some of the RQG imagery (particularly the mirror face) seems more Darhudan than Daka Fal - but there really isn’t much to differentiate them in real terms, it’s just imagery and cultural role. In Kralorela he is the wild man, whose worship gets ‘tamed’ - the wild man Ebe is worshipped through his son Aptanace, who invents ancestor worship, and the 700 other arts of civilisation - the original shamanic ancestor worship still exists in the rural villages. In Pamaltela, it is tied up with fertility, because he is the first of the Agi who drinks water, choosing both mortality and fertility in that act. And so on. The potential Ogorvaltes cult is interesting, because it’s about integrating ancestor worship into worship of the gods, and puts an interesting wrinkle into lots of these potential ancestor worship traditions.

I think venerating ancestors for magic was probably one of those things that some Brithini found necessary to survive in the Darkness, and established as a practice by the time we get to the Dawn, at least among the Dawn Age Seshnelans. The Vadeli probably don’t usually, their individualism, nihilism and general sociopathy generally don’t leave them with warm feelings towards their families, and shamanism and spirit magic interferes with sorcery (and unlike the Brithini, the Vadeli are generally all sorcerers). Though combining sorcery and ancestor worship can lead to some interesting synergies.

me with a Red Cow

I think approximate metric length means +/- 10% to 20% or so. But if you want to interpret it as ‘whatever, they said approximate so surely numbers are arbitrary and meaningless, a short sword could be the length of a broadsword’ we will just have to disagree (not just about how swords work, but somewhat about how words work).

Yes. RQG treats short swords as things used only by notably small or weaker peoples. While in the actual Bronze Age and Iron Age, they were much more common.

True, but the longest still seem to be a lot shorter than the Gloranthan version. The Macedonian kopis was about half the length.

I’ve just written up, for a JC book, the kampilan - a sword that gets used mostly two handed, but could be used one handed by a strong wielder. It’s not a European bastard sword at all - it’s only single edged, and the kampilan is from the Phillipines - but it’s longer than a broadsword, but not a greatsword or a rhomphaia. It seems natural that it’s stats are similar to a bastard sword from earlier RQ editions to me. And I wrote it up for purely Gloranthan reasons - it’s the weapon of the Haragalan elite, according to the guide. Not all of Glorantha is based on the Bronze Age in Europe and the Middle East. I tend not to pay a lot of attention to arguments about weapons based metallurgy or smithing technology - Gloranthan bronze isn’t earthly bronze, some smithing techniques learnt from Mostali could be more advanced than the terrestrial Bronze Age, and always, of course, magic can be a factor. And while Bronze Age is the term used, even the core cultures are not really - in Greek history that term gets used for cultures up to 1200 BCE or so, but we have things like the Sun Dome Phalangites using pikes/sarissa as phalangites that didn’t happen until after 400 BCE, for example. And which Bronze Age? Crossbows came into use centuries earlier in China, for example. The main point is pre-medieval, but even that not consistent, the Mostali being the most glaring example, but there are many others. Gloranthan arms and technology generally did not develop consistently along any terrestrial timeline, and that’s just fine, but trys to keep to a pre-medieval feel. And the iron vs bronze comparison is very different in Glorantha, as the various factors behind why one is in wider use than the other are very different. But cultural ones are important. There are a whole range of different reasons why Gloranthans will have cultural preferences for different weapons, some of which will match up with terrestrial cultures, some of which will not. Gloranthans have magical and religious factors, and also may be sometimes concerned with fighting various non-human opponents. And cultural preferences are a big deal, and can cause some preferences that are anachronistic to make sense. Cross-bladed hilts are a late medieval thing, but I can accept that Humakti do it because it’s important for swords to obviously look like a Death Rune. I’m happy if the official word is that bastard swords are not a common cultural weapon in any Dragon Pass or adjacent culture. Maybe they have the ability to make them if someone really wanted to, maybe not, but there are presumably good reasons that make sense to them why they don’t. Maybe some other cultures use them for some reason, maybe not, but that can be handled when those cultures get added to the game materials. maybe one might be encountered of dwarf manufacture or something. They wouldn’t be just a longer version of the standard Orlanthi leaf shaped blade, and so Orlanthi sword smiths would find their manufacture challenging and odd. There are several other odd things about the weapon options in RQG, even if you take it as being based on Bronze Age to classical Mediterranean cultures. Why is the Gloranthan kopis a lot bigger than a terrestrial kopis? Why are short swords so mediocre and unpopular (literally only the pygmy Impala riders have them as a cultural weapon, while broadsword is common), when they were a very standard weapons in the Bronze Age (and after, with the gladius)? Why is the standard 2+ meter doru spear of Ancient Greece, surely the single most significant weapon in the period RQG emulates, the weapon of Homeric epics etc, missing from the RQG weapon lists (short spears are 1.5m, long spears 3m), leaving a ‘gap’ that makes most hoplites etc inferior to sword armed troops when they should not be? or if those are considered long spears (as Martin does in Armies and Enemies) why can’t they be used one handed? All these could have explanations that could explain them, sometimes even fairly obvious ones (the Gloranthan idea of a kopis that has been made as large as a broadsword is obviously rooted in Lunar vs Storm religious factors), but they aren’t all obvious, and some baffle me (my house rules include a military doru like spear (a medium spear in RQG terminology), and they can be thrown and are the primary weapon of many Lunar soldiers). I hope some of this will be addressed in the future.

All depends what you mean by wrong, really. Not fulfilling its ostensible purpose seems a fair reading, by that doesn't imply it is unexpected, or some sort of calamity.

If the money is given to sustain the temple, and the temple is not being sustained, then it’s gone wrong. if the money is not being given for any specific purpose, then it being collected in the first place would seem to be a problem.

Or he chose to accept those consequences, despite being capable of avoiding them if he wished. He may have had a good reason to do so.