Joerg

Not exactly my favorite facts, but the facts weirding me out the most have to do with celestial and water current patterns: The Sunpath creates a tropical course of the sun, with the sun more or less directly overhead even in the middle of the winter. A low-hanging sun in the sky means that it has just risen (at most an hour ago) or will sink any moment now. The sun will be slightly in the north in the sommer, and noon is not associated with the south. This will affect the orientation of housing. Day length varies at least as much as temperate zone day length, say 45-50° latitude, although Greg memorably said at Castle Stahleck that he thought we were at pretty high latitude, commenting on the long dusk we were enjoying (compared to say Mexico or the equatorial regions). At the same time, you get a night sky resembling the sky near the north or south pole, with polar orbits for all planetary bodies (including the sun disk). Water runs down the drain (Magasta's Pool, the Doom Currents) clockwise (as per the northern hemisphere of Earth), and so does the world wide cyclone (as per the southern hemisphere of Earth). Sramak's River runs around the Lozenge counter-clockwise, creating friction with the outer Orlanth storm. Lunar tides rise extremely slow (minimum tidal cycle: 1 day, maximum tidal cycle: 6 days), leading to an average of two tidal cycles per week. There are tidal waves - sea bodies/deities allied to the Waertagi that re-create the in-rushing flood of our planet, but these obey sacrifice rather than any cycles other than those obeyed by the summoners. Next to all of this, the occasional river running uphill is a minor curiosity.

Does anybody have a link to Simon Bray's story of how the scanned image of the Eurmal portrait sent to Issaries Inc. appeared to have genitals because of a hair having fallen unto the drawing?

Yes, and apparently so does Ian Cooper in his presentation of the Red Cow clan in The Coming Storm. Basically, the loom house will be full of wives born in different clans. At least half the female priesthood will be married into the clan, even if you keep the main earth priestesses inside your clan (as is the - IMO rather rare - case with the Ernaldori Earth temple in Clearwine or Ernalsulva's home temple among the Malani). I didn't suggest that her birth clan be overwritten, but that her marriage clan be added to that tattoo. A spouse in a different clan is supposed to give her (or his, in case of Esrolian marriages) loyalty to the clan into which the children are born. In all legal matters (other than divorce), the spouse is represented by the marriage clan. There might be a possibility (but not a necessity) for the birth clan to participate in ransom or weregeld payments (receiving as much as dishing out). The Sacred TIme rites are (of course) performed at the site of the marriage clan. Other than the guaranteed right to return to the birth clan in case of divorce or widowhood, how does the spouse retain her birth-clan membership? This actually might be sensible - you don't receive your hosting clan tattoo for initiating a year marriage, but upon bringing new life to the clan. A year's trial period should be enough to provide signs of offspring, and to revert to the birth clan afterwards if no offspring resulted. That's the case for greater outlawry (aka "never come back"), but what about the lesser outlawry many anti-Lunar rebels accepted more or less pro forma during the occupation? Huh? I was talking about the ritual death (and separation) upon initiation to Humakt. Does this somehow alter the clan tattoo? A similar case: what about warriors taking the service of a noble from a clan different from their birth clan? Do they wear some kind of tabard or ornament to signal their allegiance?

As Jeff isn't going to do any arbitrary changes to published canon, I think it is safe to assume that the date of 1605 as per Guide still is valid. The Threestep Isles probably are barren in the eyes of Esrolians or Pelaskites, but for Ygg Islanders they may be pleasant and suitable for crops (which doesn't automatically mean agriculture - you can have crops by horticulture, too). Malta has already been used for Alatan, as far as my real world parallels go, so the Threestep Isles might be similar to the Aran Islands in Galway Bay, Ireland. Pretty barren without some backbreaking work put in, but able to sustain a hardy islander population that braves the sea and persists by planting crops in specially prepared areas of crushed rock mixed with sea weed. Or perhaps the rock-enclosed plots of the Easter Island after its deforestation. For an Ygg Islander (the equivalent of a Greenland settler), the Threestep Isles are wondrously warm and fertile. And they don't have to do the backbreaking work in cultivating the crops, they have plenty slaves for that kind of work. Orstando founded the Wolf Pirates, sailed for the Vadeli, and (IMO now) established the Ginorth colony off Old Seshnela. All of that happened by the aftermath of the Batlle of Oenriko Rocks which crushed the Vadeli naval superiority and released the Wolf Pirates from their obligations to the Vadeli. So say 1595. 10 years later, the Wolf Pirates take possession of the Threestep Isles as one of their colonies. Further 10 years later, Harrek establishes himself here, then starts his circumnavigation. Nine years later he is given access to the City of Wonders.

I understand the adulthood initiation rites to bestow (at least the magical outlines) for the new adult's tattoos, and that includes his or her tattoos signifying their birth clan. However, upon marriage, the individual marrying outside of (usually) her clan will join a new clan. Her clan tattoo will probably be added to, so that it encompasses the new clan's symbols, too. I suppose there is something like a tattoo script to indicate "this is my clan that I married into". So, what happens upon severance from a clan? Does the individual's birth clan tattoo get altered as a result of the marriage? (Basically, the individual bears the contract between the clans inked into her skin...) What happens at a divorce, or when a temporary marriage runs out? (And is the number of children as the result of that marriage somehow integrated?) Does an exiled clan member get their tattoo altered? A resheathed Humakti? What would a serial monogamist outside of her own clan look like?

There's always the inside of your shield for extra foci. But then you really want your allied spirit to cast those Heal 6 for you, as you will most likely be incapacitated in that situation when you need it the most. In case of Heal, I think that "touch" doesn't mean "with the blade" unless that blade happens to hold your allied spirit. BTW, is healing magic Life/Fertility-based, or is it Harmony-based?

That's drastically different from my model - while there was an influx of Council missionaries, many of those hill tribes were former Tawari. The Talastari are ram-Orlanthi, while the Fronelans and Talsardians are bull-Orlanthi. The Theyalan Missionaries would have been Heortlings at least as much as Talastarings. Guide p.222: Sounds like Tawari to me. The only westward migration in the books is that of the Vathmai into Slontos, south of Ralios rather than north of it. Other councilic settlers enter northern Ralios through Kartolin Pass after the Battle of Zebrawood, again probably of Heortling (or Esrolian) origin rather than Talastaring (at the Dawn, the Heortlings outnumber the Talastarings 10 to 1). Including Hykimi/Hsunchen ancestry, or some other local beast totem not-quite Hsunchen origin (like Bisosae, Enjoreli, or in Ralios Enerali and Pendali ancestry). I have a lot less of an idea what went on in modern Doblian satrapy prior to Sheng's invasion. Fortunate Succession leaves this area out of its focus most of the time. We have a few military units with some history from the region, including the Doblian Dog-Eaters, and we have the Eel-ariash story originating here. The rest is just local color. Did the natives here join the Council prior to the Dara Happans, or as part of their empire? After the retreat of the horse warlords, the Dara Happans needed a while to consolidate their footman power before spreading out this far east. There are native deities like Arakang and Orogeria or Sakkar which are not that different from Odayla, yet they appear to have been inside the Pelorian fold rather than the Theyalan one. Was the Suvarian Lodrili inheritance that strong?

Part of the problem is logistics. Tribes like the Dundealos or the Torkani are almost a week away from the action, and that is for fast moving military units, not for the support bringing in food. It isn't like the Swenstown militia will be fed by the clans along the royal highways, not without monetary compensation calculated for other uses. It is possible to rush troops to the action, but Kallyr doesn't really have the means to feed all the troops out of the royal coffers - not away from Boldhome. The Tarshite/Imperial troops face a similar logistics challenge across the dragonewt wildlands, but as the aggressor they know where and when the strike will come, making logistical preparations easier, and they have a very professional military supply chain, and one that survived the Dragonrise relatively unharmed. But then, yes, there are tribes and clans still smarting from previous events, and there will be a sinifficant portion of "I didn't vote for her". The Princes of Sartar have a history of dealing with assassins (and Lunar assassins), it comes with the job. She led our father, uncle, etc. to his death, not in battle, but in exile. She surrendered without a decisive battle. (And yes, those two complaints are contradictory. Doesn't change how the German public of the Weimar republic regarded WW1...) In some respects, yes. Her successful action at the Battle of Dangerford was overshadowed by her bad perfomance last Sacred Time. There are communities suffering from the magical backlash. The Lunars have left Sartar. But they still strike at the Sacred Season rites! Not really. The Dragon Pass boardgame has two non-magical scenarios, and the Battle of Queens is the second of these. Things change with the result of the Battle of Sword Hill, and Argrath's supremacy. King of Sartar remains our best source for this year, and it has two lines in Minaryth Blue's memoirs (one dealing with the Battle of the Queens, the other with the coming of Argrath) and something of a lacuna in the Composite History of Dragon Pass. Argrath Saga is even less informative. There are a few future developments which are set into motion already by this time which you might be able to foreshadow. But then, that's what I expect from the Smoking Ruins scenario (are we there yet?). Of the leaders of the rebellion, probably one out of three have been culled by the Short Lightbringers' Quest or the attrition of the Dragonrise. A lot of moderates who barely avoided being chased off as pro-Lunars will return to popularity. Leika has the support of 10K Colymar tribesmen and -women, which is twice as much as the next tribal king or queen. Any other potential claimant would first have to get at least two tribes or a city confederation behind themselves before being in a position to challenge Leika. Sartar's system of checks and balances between the tribes backfires in the absence of the House of Sartar. The Dragonfall mostly affects southeastern Sartar - the Sambari will be strongly affected. The other tribes not that much. Broyan has been missing since the Dragonrise. How does this disrupt them? Trade is a lot less secure, yes, but did the Kitori outbreak that destroyed Broyan carry over into the Chorms valley? Isn't this a greater problem for Sun Dome County than for the southern tribes? The dissolution of the Kultain seven years ago would have left the then neutral or moderately Lunar-friendly tribes benefitting rather than suffering. The figureheads for good Lunar relationship in the Wilmskirk tribes would have ended up as dragonfodder, and their loyalists may have been targeted by feuds, so there is that much disruption - but the same goes for the Jonstown tribes, really.

Part of this might be covered as her tithing?

Sounds like a good spell for torturers, too. Not being able to die can be a harsh fate, compare King Vingkot undergoing immolation rather than continue to suffer from his chaos wound. Decay is a form of digestion, and would be a Darkness power rather than Death power. (In fact, applying Death to foodstuff will prevent vermin or molds. Whether it remains nourishing is another question, though.) This may depend on the nature of the venom. Paralyzing venoms are obviously an expression of Stasis. Digesting venoms are Darkness (or Water, if liquefying), and likewise diarrhea-inducing poisons. Anaesthetic venoms might be Death. Smothering poisons that make inhaling worthless (effects of carbon monoxide, cyanides, sulphides, arsenic (oxide), lead acetate) would be what? Inflammatory poisons would be Fire.

The Guide (p.711) mentions Varknathendar as the survival site of the nine Talastaring clans: These appear to be different from the Hagolings. At the time of the Breaking of the Council, the Orlanthi are split into Heortlings (who left) and Talastarings who remained. The Heortling origin of the Dorastan settlers remains unmentioned. The sons of Vingkot invasions pattern nicely to the Dara Happan reports on the loss of Elempur (and possibly Jorganos acquiring the Bow of Yelm) and the victory of Urvairinus (GRoY p.25). I don't see any convincing argument for dissociating these events. There are plenty of non-Vingkotling Orlanthi north of the Vingkotling lands - Sylilan bear people, Vanchite blue deer and raccoon people, Imtherite goat herders. Northwest, we have all those cattle Orlanthi north of the Nidan Mountains. There are plenty "sons of Storm Bull"-like pastoralists on both sides of the Nidan-Western Rockwood range. A lot of them (also) qualify as Hykimi in origin, descending from the One Mountain into the lands of the horticulturalists, creating the old ranchers vs. farmers conflict. Their relation to the Vingkotlings is another question. Sylilans, Imtherites and Vanchites probably were on the dry lands between the Osliran and the Madadan seas, whereas the rest was on the western Greatwood portion of the remaining dry lands. I would place the Hagolings (or their ancestors) on that western dry land. But then, looking at the Dawn Survival sites, the Penentelli of western and Vestantes of southern Aggar According to Heortling Mythology, this was a pass guarded by a pair of mountain giants, and impassable for mortals (though not for the retrieved herds, and neither on their theft by the Enchanter). Odayla's arrow shattered the life crystal of one of those giant guardians. Hedkoranth's Thunderstone beheaded the other giant, then the giant hit by Odayla toppled over in an avalanche that sent the body down as an avalanche of rubble. There is an unnamed twinned sierra east of Soren Mountain, south of Billiz, about straight west of Grizzley Peak (unnamed in the map on p.180 in the Guide) which could be the site of that conflict. Vingkotling-Heortling, at least up to the EWF era. I am not exactly clear what provenance the Old Day Traditionalists overcome by Isgangdrang were (I suspect they were a motley group of refugees from the draconic take-over in Saird and Kerofinela). The settled parts of Aggar appear to be the location of Thrinbarri.

Rereading on the history of the Orlanthi lands of Peloria, I noticed another deity overlooked previously: Senbara, wife of Odayla, worshiped in Cafol (Old, or Larger) (p.321). Clearly an earth goddess: "From here they visit their parents in the Air and under the Earth" Each city of Dara Ni has its own patron deity: Pir in Thubana, Jeru the Staff in Nothium (a god of wine and pleasure), Kistium with its "temple made of water" (presumably to Erinflarth), Suda with its temple of Biselenslib, Everina and (the Manimati entity) Ostodaka whose ribs keep away the river crocodiles. I wonder how the "temple made of water" looks - are these magical walls and roofs made of water? Are they artesian springs arranged in the manner of walls, or alternatively a cunning set of aqueducts constantly leaking out a water curtain to make up those walls? The structure was erected in the Second Age, possibly under the aegis of the EWF.

The origin story of the Talastarings is buried in this story: https://www.glorantha.com/docs/the-missionaries/ Personally, I think they were not directly a Vingkotling tribe but one of the many other pastoralist folks - a splinter of the ram tribe. Not quite Helerings, though.

RQG Bestiary has Vivamorti vampires and Delecti's Dancers in Darkness. Sun County has an ancient vampire in the Old Sun Dome Temple IIRC (select this paragraph to read hidden spoiler text) Cults of Terror/Cults Compendium has the RQ2 Vivamort cult. Read up on Tanisor during the Gbaji Wars (also in the history of Arolanit and Seshnela) and Ramalia. For Nontraya, search this forum for recent threads. P.71 of Fortunate Succession starts laying out the Carmanian dualism mythos, with Idovanus and Ganesatarus sharing the womb of Uleria. On the subject of this dualism, I have started to wonder whether the Fronelan Irensavalist dualism was inherited from the Enjoreli via common Tawari tales about Idovanus vs. Ganesatarus, resulting in Loskalmi Irensaval vs. Makan. Tomaris, the intellectual founder of Irensavalism, was active in the first and possibly second century, after there had been some exchange between bull folk and Malkioni. When Syranthir led his army east, his Irensavalism may have been re-adsorbed by the original dualism between Idovanus and Ganesatarus. This is the Glorantha forum. Where else would you discuss this (outside of a personal blog)?

There are D100 systems which calculate basic skill chance as multiples of attributes, which then are increased by experience. There is just one value, though. Does it have to be the straight ability score? A derivative bonus (or malus) is calculated from basic attributes is common to the D100 systems.

You mean like "The Making of the Storm Tribe"? The "Wooing of Ernalda"?

Yes, exactly. Issaries is the Hsunchen God of the Silver Feet, for instance. And Buserian is as far from being an Orlanthi deity as is Yelm. So, yes, are there other forms of XU that we don't recognize as such? There is potential to look in the way of Malia, for a mythical split. Similar to the separation of Vadrus and Ragnaglar. (Apart from the Initiation of Orlanth, is there any myth which has both of these sons of Umath? Interacting with one another?) Dark comforter, mistress of pregnancy (the perfect midwife), "friendship from afar" with primal Fire. Azerlo does come quite close. KataMoripi might. Edit: and the Aldryami might have her? Ancestral Troll deities are pretty exclusively worshiped by their descendants. While Vaneekara's hurling magic might be useful to other species, I know of no instance where she is worshiped. Jeset might be the most universally worshiped/propitiated ancestral troll deity for his role on the Paths of Silence.

IMO this is really another case of a classical language adjective gone weird. Umbra is Latin for shadow or dark. XU uses that in a vowel-consonant position exchange. There is an Anglicized form, Umber, for the dark brown pigment used by painters. The Indo-European cognates interestingly include "rot, rotten" as meanings - so the term covers lots of what we love about Darkness. And "Umbraism" is hard to pronounce, while "Umbarism" is fairly easy. The Greek term for dark, "skotos", is cognate of Germanic "shadow" or "shade" (German Schatten) and sounds too similar to northern Britain... ZZ and XU aren't exactly troll deities. Like AA and Xentha they are worshiped by the uz, but they aren't among their ancestors, unlike most of their deities. (Aranea, Gorakiki and related beast deities are yet another group of semi-related darkness spirits/deities in the troll pantheon. Finding ZZ elsewhere is easy - the Dara Happans have several cognates of his, lords of their third and fourth hells, and of Alkoth. XU is a lot harder to find, and to dissociate from Malia before her part in the Unholy Trio. She is associated with pain, and overcoming that. Gerra's martyrium resonates with this, but doesn't suggest any identity. Pelorian Umbarism IMO is referring to the Shadow, the blind spot of the Bright Ones, their unknowable. There is a good possibility that Umbarists never achieved any insights into that unknowable, either, other than faith that it held the answers to the failures of the deities of Light. There seems to be some belief in rebirth from Darkness, but that is shared with the Solar and the Lunar religions and of course with the Theyalans.

Two major necromantic entities (Vivamort/Nontraya, Zorak Zoran) are associated with the Underworld, as are the realms of the dead. One problem with the term "necromancy" is that it has plenty interpretations. Communication with the deceased via Axis Mundi or similar means might be regarded as necromancy, as well as interaction with ghosts. Animating dead bodies like apparati, by inserting random (ghoulish) spirits, or by returning a semblance of the previous identity, is another typical effect in necromancy. Draining Life(force) is a necromantic trait. Definitely. And Yargan may only have been the second of the blue people sorcerers. Already King Oronin is likely to have been (or brought) riverine Waertagi with him. The nature of Yargan is less easily recognizable. Yargan was a foe of King Oronin who slew the original King Blue, then sort of inherited the title. This depends on when exactly you place the emergence of Pelanda from Wendaria. Wendaria has all those cute nude folk doing all kinds of First Deeds all over again after being cast out from the functional parent and firstborn son. Not that much in terms of gods-affecting sorcery, though. Lord of the higher energies, possibly more a source of magical energies than of spellcraft. The twin brother of Ganesatarus in the womb of Uleria, according to Fortunate Succession: Carmanian Sources. Basically a necessary pre-read to the Entekosiad. And the Underworld/Darkness/Dead Realms are fairly hostile to the entire concept of sorcery and access to the pure energies. Unless this uses something like the second principle of thermodynamics that says as long as there is a lower level of energies, a flow from the present to the lower level will provide the energy to power magic. YarGan as worshiper of Ganesatarus is a likely candidate to have brought it. It is all very much pre-Arkat. Yes, the faithless guardian of Subere's treasures later known as Vivamort may be a bridge. There is also Brostangius Archmoor, the Hierophant of the Cult of Idovanus, another son of Yolanela, and "seven knights of renown" (Men-of-All of renown?). Guide p.324. And yes, all these boys were born well before 1605. With 10 known sons and probably roundabout a half dozen daughters, it is possible that there are more, younger children (especially among the daughters) which still may have to prove themselves. And how far north? They are the Thunder Delta slingers, with possible paths to Umath even the Orlanthi are ignorant of. While the Char-un come across as a lot less benevolent than Lendarsh and his regime, there is mythical precedent for horse warlord rule in Spol long before Sheng Seleris. Dranz Goloi might be another variant of the horse warlord from the north. Poralistor riverine Waertagi are a possibility. Altinelans are one. Denizens from Valind's Winter Palace are possible. Or a Rathori hero.

I wonder how Hallucinate and dreams interact with one another. Is it possible to enter a dream as a party? Or do dreamers have to meet at dreamside landmarks, as in Wheel of Time? The stairwell that Randolph Carter is using for his entry to the Dreamlands is something I could do very well without... and the nightmare intrusion is something I am a bit unclear about. World of Darkness players might associate this with provoking the Umbra, or the Technocracy through paradox effects. Shamans and other spirit world travelers ought to be able to enter dreams laterally, from the Spirit plane. As dreams usually don't connect to the Ultimate, they leach their magic from adjacent realms - the dreamer and his environs, or the spirit world. Entering a dream would be moving with the flow, leaving it would be against the flow, thus harder. Dragon dreams are different - they do connect with the ultimate. So does draconic meditation. There may be a way to separate from the dream abruptly, possibly causing damage of some kind to everyone affected by this separation (including those remaining dreamside). To a mystic, dreams are a form of entanglement. Both the heroplane and intensely magical places (like the City of Wonders) have been described in psychedelic terms. In order to make the dreamside different, maybe a different approach should be thought up? Most people appear to dream in grayscale. Maybe that old Wizard of Oz trope might be inverted for entering dreamside. When things take on color again, you might be reaching the far side of the dreamside, the Hero Planes, Hell, or other such realms. Insertion there throuh dreaming means that you have at best a hard upstream struggle to return through the dream, but as likely to be lost on the Other Side without (much of) a path to follow. The question is whether dreamers can manifest the world around them after their demand, and whether there is some currency they need to invest to keep their desired features up and running. Dreamside experiences should not carry over magic like hero plane experiences do. They might carry over insights or inspirations, or they might allow transition into a mythic realm which effectly is a hero plane (including all manners of nightmarish hells). If the Ultimate makes dreamside reality fade away, how does dreamside reality interact with Chaos, or with Glamours?

A case could be made for manifested nightmares to be (one-directional) accessways into various hells. Getting out probably requires a form of Shamanic guidance or weaker form of Resurrection rite short of getting a heroquest rescue. I like the idea of Yelm even oppressing the dreams of people. But then, there are far worse imaginable hells than the rather cosy one Yelm conquered in Wonderhome.

The aftermath of the Apple Lane scenario in the RQG Adventure Book gives something like game data for managing a bunch of tenants. Has anybody taken these through a Sacred Season economy yet?

It might be an outdated concept, but there is a possibility that dreams are gateways into Short Worlds, Otherworldly realms that have no direct access to the Source of magic but that feed on reality (and the dreamers) to manifest themselves. As temporary reality, they are expressions of the Illusion rune, and may be collapsed by confrontation to the Ultimate. Revealed Mythologies tells us about the reign of Avanapdur (Lord of Nightmares) in the East as their expression of the Greater Darkness, and of Thella (Theya) who took care of cleaning up the aftermath. Spirits can send messages, and possibly can enable transition into a dream reality. No idea about the actual mechanics involved, though.

The Oronin river, surely? I keep wondering whether the inverted pyramid in the copper tablets in the view from above should have been northwest rather than southwest. (Guide p.115-117)

Sorry, but then the correct Latin would be Quatro-kini. Four-wheeled motorbikes and scantily clad models might be presented together, but rarely with tusks in the mix.