Jeff

At this point, I have no idea what is even being argued about. Bring this thread back to discussing Vinga, or lets shut it down.

Vinga is a small cult. Babeester Gor is a small cult. Maran Gor is a small cult. Maybe 3-5% of the population belongs to these cults. Of those, only Shaker Priestesses are celibate. Vingans or BG cultists may choose whether to have children or not, only BG is required to give up the child to the Earth Temple (although Vingans certainly might). None of these cults are likely to threaten the demographic stability of the local population - except through their main activity: war. As for the multigenerational aspect of the game - if you don't have any offspring yourself, you can always play another member of your kinship group. Time passes and characters die, but you don't HAVE to play your own offspring. Even in Pendragon.

There is no female incarnation of Yelmalio at all.

Our belief - shared by Greg as well - is that in the ancient world loyalty is BOTH a passion and a quid pro quo. It is not a free-standing thing floating around in the abstract. One is passionately loyal to Argrath, but also reasonably expects that loyalty to be returned. If it isn't, there's a problem. Or I give gifts to my retainers because they are loyal to me AND I give those gifts because I am loyal to them.

You clearly haven't worked with lobbyists or big law firms then. You'd be amazed how much a big value contract makes everyone loyal to each other.

Or why was there a big Mary cult in medieval Christianity (and later)? Why the cult veneration of the Virgin Mary, when it is clearly Christ Pantocrator who gives out the cool spells?

Why? Because it is an all-female warrior society that crosses clan lines. Because worshiping a female manifestation of the Storm God can be a different thing from worshiping a male manifestation of the Storm God. Because it makes it clear that women that they are Orlanth too. Why worship Shakti as the active female energy of Shiva? Why worship Vaishnavi instead of just worshiping Vishnu? Or Maheshvari instead of just Shiva? For many people worshiping the female incarnation gives a different twist on it. Same thing with Vinga - worshiping Orlanth as a goddess gives a different twist than Orlanth as a god. And as a Movement/Change god, Orlanth is sometimes all about the twist.

Winged horses are a thing in Glorantha, although the ancient form was Hippogriff. I tend to use Hippogriff and Pegasus interchangeably as a term for the Ancient Winged Horse, since we know Hippoi was originally a beaked, clawed, and winged goddess, who had her wings, claws, and beak taken away by cruel gods.

Clearly you've run into something that you have some personal issue with. In our Glorantha, loyalty is normally a two-way street. One-way loyalty is strange, rare, and probably Chaotic (at the very least profoundly dishonourable). It is normal in Glorantha that loyalty is built up by gifts and donations. These donations and declarations of loyalty and fidelity are witnessed by the gods, spirits, and your community. This is all taking place in a gift economy where that is how things work. Your Glorantha is different, clearly. So drop it for your game. But the mechanic models how Greg and I think this works in Our Glorantha.

If that player is saying they want to make a huge donation to that temple so that it supports them, why not? In most cultures, a patron-client relationship works both ways. If the player says, "I want to make sure I have the support of that temple," and gives them a huge donation - then let them have a strong loyalty with that temple. Easy as that. If they are giving a big donation and don't want to gain a passion - then don't give them one. Again, easy as that.

Loyalty is a two-way street. If you are loyal to someone, you can expect them to be loyal to you. Of course, this gets into conflict with other passions or Runes, and thus being loyal to someone with a higher Illusion or Disorder Rune might not be so reciprocal.

Yes. Like a cancer, or like a brush fire that expands by burning all it encounters, leaving nothing behind.

Like so many of your recent posts - when you write that something is "poorly-thought-out," it often seems to mean little more than "I don't like it, therefore it must be poorly thought out." It is fine to say you don't like certain rules or an edition. Please at least show some respect towards Jason, myself, Greg, Ken, and the many others who were involved in putting this together. You might not like a rule or its implications, but it is hardly correct to say we hadn't thought it through. As an aside, your constant negativity about RQG in a thread about "RQ3, house rules, Borderlands and questions" is getting into tedious troll territory. Please steer your conversation appropriately, or start a new thread somewhere else.

Yes, but it does mean that they need both the Air, Earth, Movement, Harmony, and Fertility Runes. Which is a pretty rare combination. The Barter subcult is shared by both Ernalda and Orlanth.

Vinga's role is to be a female manifestation of Orlanth. Women can always join the other Orlanth cults as well (including Orlanth Adventurous), but Vinga is a women-only warrior society that is nonetheless an accepted part of the Orlanth cult.

Yep. This is precisely what we want to have happen - if adventurers want to buy the loyalty of something or someone, they can. But it can get pretty darn pricey.

Correct. Loyalty to a person or temple is very different from Devotion. But if someone gives a 1000 L gift to their temple, damn right that temple is going to listen to what they say and treat them as a patron. And the 90% that Rune masters must give their temple isn't a gift. A better way of thinking of it is the assets and time of a Rune master belong to the temple, but they are permitted to treat 10% as personal funds. But since their food, clothing, servants, etc. are usually provided by the temple - this isn't too onerous. I'd only let a Rune master make a gift from that 10% that is theirs.

As was mentioned in another thread, Greg was very dissatisfied with that writeup. Use it for your own Glorantha if you like, but that is not our take on the cult and none of the published material is or will be based on that version.

Erannina is an initiate of Babeester Gor, not Vinga. At its most basic, Vinga is a female incarnation of Orlanth Adventurous. She is the divine feminine form of what is usually thought of as a masculine deity. She is usually worshiped as subcult of Orlanth, but sometimes her cult is independent. She does not have gifts or geases any more than Orlanth Adventurous or Barntar do.

Naimless did not give birth in battle. That was Eril Silksword and Alebard. There's a reason that other than a little reference to her in Wyrms Footprints, no additional references to that event in Greg's game has been made since the late 1970s.

I'm with Bill the barbarian. I find the direction that this thread has gone down to be tedious and its persistant revival to be disappointing. If you feel you absolutely must have a soul-crushing thread about torture, etc. then at the very least do it somewhere else than on a thread about Pavis. Future attempts to revive that discussion in this thread will get deleted by the administrators.

Because those values happened to work in the first place. Ducks, trollkin, Tusk Riders, runners - all for one reason or another lack the same potential for divine favour. Given that in RQ3 APP was a weird measure of physical appearance, and yet was simply a relabelling of the old RQ2 CHA values (which were explicitly not a rating of beauty in the RQ2 rules), I think you may have your argument backwards. We went around and around about whether CHA should be folded into POW or vice versa. but ultimately decided that the two characteristics were different enough (spiritual energy versus force of personality). It used to be that INT was the all-important stat, with POW shortly behind. Now it is CHA, with POW shortly behind.

That topic was absolutely correct. Until we release the BRP OGL there is not OGL for BRP. And RQ and CoC will be specifically prohibited content for that OGL.

That is correct. We are releasing a BRP Open Game License and a BRP SRD. The SRD is a core BRP rules document that people are authorized to create derivative works from, including rules expansions, etc. But certain things are going to be off limits - you can't use the BRP rules to create your own game using the Cthulhu Mythos. Or your own version of Pendragon. Etc. More news soon. Here's a live tweet of the panel from Nick Brooke:

That's exactly how we do it for my wife's very active Earth priestess ("she never misses a temple orgy!"). She's had three children I believe already - all give to her temple to raise. We've never let pregnancy interfere with what a character wants to do - and rolling it after the fact makes that a lot easier.