metcalph

Simply having a max intensity equal to your rightness seems fair and proper. Why re-invent the wheel?

The Talar's Forced Command ability: why would it be restricted to Dronar? USing it to command other humans or other Malkioni seems plausible to me. Why would it not be an active spell effect? Would the Talars have to expend magic points for it work? If so, then why not the rest of the other non-Zzaburi?

Consider there exists a caste magic being the equivalent of Heal Wound or the spirit magic heal spell. That's better than the sorcerous healing spell of Mend Flesh. Which then raises the question of why don't the Zzaburi use that instead of Mend Flesh? And if the Caste Magic is better than the equivalent rune or spirit magic why are the non-Zzaburi fooling around with spirit and rune magics? Hence my feeling that caste magic has to be sorcerous in form and not just in name.

I find this sort of hand-waving hard to believe. I had already addressed Dragon Magic in the post you were responding to and illumination has no cast magic. Let's see. The people are Malkioni famous for their study of sorcery. Why would it not be sorcery? That you didn't bother to engage with the example of the Talar's magic suggests further debate with you will be fruitless. So bye.

Until Jeff recently revealed Caste Magic, which I had just been discussing, Open Seas is an example of a spell that is taught to other castes. It is not necessarily the only such spell and I can think of a number of other spells that might be taught to lower caste Malkioni (for example the Loskalmi might have Medespiction, Venerate Saint etc). None of these types of spells are ever going to be as useful as spirit magic but they will fulfil a particular niche with Malkioni society In RuneQuest, all magic is one of three types: sorcery, spirit magic or rune magic. Which would caste magic fall under? They are not spells in the RQG rules but they would still be sorcery IMO. Or to look at it another way, the Talar's forced command. What would more likely be the basis for that? The Command Worshippers rune spell (RQG p324) or the Dominate Human sorcery spell (RQG p394). And the problem with my suggestion that the Zzaburi caste magic is sorcerous version of Shamanic Abilities (RQG p360 and onwards) is what? I don't believe that Zzaburi would have conceal fetch or cure disease but they would have Magic Attack, Magic Defence and some sorcerrous version of Expanded Presence, Power Within, Spell Extension and Soul Expansion. With a bit of creative lisense, the Spirit Affinity, Spirit Defense and Spirit Mastery abilities could be adapted to spells that use a particular rune.

I didn't describe a plantation economy but a mafia one. The city masters hate each other and hate the neighbouring cities even more. They sort out the running of the city by sorting out who does what through a process of violent incursions and sit-downs. The Fonritans don't have a civil service bureaucracy any more than the Roman Republic or Sartar does. Public works are carried out by the masters beacsue it is their responsbility (assigned to them by the other masters) or through self-interest (if I don't fix the walls, the untaxed smugglers will get through). Now could we please wrap this particular subtopic up as its not RQ and not within the thread?

It depends on what you think the Fonritan society is like. For me, the worship of Ompalam is divided among the slave estates with the Masters as the high priests of the estate. The Fonritans have no civic/bureaucratic structure as that would be an obstacle to Ompalam's demands for power. Having their yads (ie their favourite slaves) practice the equivalent of Rightness would only increase the power of the Masters against each other and be good in their eyes, no?

I assume (ie me guessing) that it will be like runepoints in scale. Most Malkioni will have about three poiints while their betters will have ten.

From what I heard, Kallyr's son was supposed to be revealed in Gathering Thunder as the priest Danar Orleros or Penendros the Star Captain. But a certain editor (now departed) didn't like the metaphysics and changed it.

Some musings on RIGHTNESS (knowing full well that what the actual rules turn out to be will probably look completely different to what I think they might be) Caste Magic: I think that most Caste Magic (ie non Zzaburi) is sorcery. There's several different models that could be used (such as the RQ3 Godunya shortform magic in which the worshipper could expend POW to cast sorcery). But I think it likely that rightness acts as a intensity limit (ie a Rightness of 3 means only spells with an intensity of up to 3 points can be cast) with the magic points being provided by the Malkioni (and may be INT as a limiter on the amount of caste magic that can be known). Rather than there being a standard caste magic list for everybody in that caste, most Malkioni have occupation lists. For example, the caste magic of a horseman (ie Enhance DEX, CON) will be different from that of a footsoldier (Enhance STR< CON). Commoners will have caste magic based on what guild they belong to. The Zzaburi's caste magic abilities will be based on their order while the Talar's is based on what Great House they are a member of (and they would have more extensive caste magic than lower castes). Rokari Rokari Commoners know caste magic of their occupation and some spirit magic too based on their particular organization. Rokari Horali know the caste magic of their regiment (in terms of combat style) and the spirit magic of their warrior order. They may know some rune magic even though they are not supposed to. Rokari Talars know the caste magic of their great house and the rune and spirit magic of their ancestors. There's probably an order of genealogical wizards who check to see who is a legitimate ancestor that can be worshipped as opposed to a God. Hrestoli: Hrestoli commoners have their caste magic and also worship their ancestors (the rulers encourage this to trash the ideals of the Rokari). Hrestoli guardians retain their commoner caste magic and acquire the caste magic of the guardians. I think they forget their ancestor magic as it inhibits contact with the Hidden Mover or convert it to practical God-Learning Hrestoli Zzaburi are of two types IMO. There are those that have been chosen to be wizards from a young age. They only have Zzaburi magic and are equal of Zzaburi in other countries. Then there are the political Zzaburi who have been promoted from the Guardians. They are pretty crap at sorcery in general but act as the school's enforcers, jailors and leaders with special guardian abilities that are effective against their adept colleagues. Carmanians: Think Caste Magic is a declining practice (whose authority was mortally wounded by the Bull Shahs) under the light of the Goddess. Only the Viziers/Magi and a minority of Hazars and Carmanoi practice it. The serfs of Carmania never have. Aeolians Although they have caste, I doubt that they have caste magic preferring instead to worship the Gods wholeheartedly Arkati I think they have abandoned caste in favour of worshipping the Gods and Illumination. Castle Coasters: They have amalgamated the caste of sorcerors and nobles. But they are pretty poor and so their caste magic is kinda weak. Dragonewts It seems to me that he Malkioni would see the magic of the Dragonewts as being similar to their own caste magic. Perhaps the Path of Immanent Mastery was an explicit marriage to the two concepts. Fonritans An interesting possibility is that the Fonritans might have something similar to caste magic within the cult of Ompalam.

That's known in Teshnos. I was just surprised the Dara Happans know of the relationship as well. Personally I blame Sheng Seleris.

Was just checking through the GRoY. The only mace there - the Mace of Authority - is wielded by Shargash or even from Alkoth. The nearest in the Thunderbolt.

Kinda surprised that Shargash has something from Artmal.

I think RIGHTNESS will function like rune points for non-Zzaburi and Shamanic gifts for Zzaburi.

I'm kinda getting the impression that RIGHTNESS was redefined and standardised by the God Learners so that all Malkioni born since then (including the Brithini!) use it. And WRONGNESS is probably something the Vadeli have.

Based on what is said in the Guide, worship of the Ascended Masters (such as Hrestol) as a God in Malkioni lands is considered an error. I assume therefore that initiates of Hrestol and above are mostly found outside those lands (ie Junora, Jonatela and Safelster). Worship of an Ascended Master as an ancestor is another matter. Hadn't expected the Caste-based magics.

A city destroyed by Argin Terror. Previously the capital of a league of the same name but never particularly powerful.

They've been right next door in Teshnos since the Storm Age. I think the first historical contact with the Praxians was in the Dawn Age.

My best guess (which is somewhat supported by Tolat being known in Ralios) is probably between 713 and 718. The Waertagi were struggling against the Jrusteli (as far back as 660) and had asked the Seshnegi for help, byt were refused (The Middle Sea Empire p16). So to punish the Seshnegi, they transported from Melib an army of Zaranistangi mercenaries so they could fight for the Autarchy. But the Waertagi unwisely get burnted and the Zranistangi have no way home.

Perhaps Eurmal was pretending to be Odayla's friend for some big trick that he had yet to pull before Orlanth waylaid him and made him one of the Lightbringers. Now due to the Cosmic Compromise, Eurmal can never pwn Odayla and continues to be his friend, something which causes him great angst.

It says Chaos Wars in Dorastor: Land of Doom which is the war of Arkat and Nysalor.

There's also the Slime Deer mentioned in Dorastor: Land of Doom p63 who are probably related to Pralori (their god was originally the Sleek Deer God).

There's also a city called Erenplose which is probably also known as Herilia the Sweet City and Porlufta

Kaxtor's parentage is kinda irrelevant as to who he was in life. There is after all a Seshnegi tradition about Aerlit being Malkion's father. At this point in time, there is no bright line between the Malkioni and the pagans. A Malkioni at the time is best understood as one who practices sorcery rather than being the larger community that supports them and who would identify as Entruli, Wenelian etc. Thus I do not htink it likely that Fodalor was exiled for religious reasons. Another possibility is that Kaxtor originally worshipped and was a hero of Lhankor Mhy who in his lifetime taught students of Zzabur or Enroval (the philosopher). In the Imperial Age, Kaxtor's barbarian origins were quietly forgotten and he became seen as a great teacher of Malkioni Wisdom.

It's possible that the dates in the History of the Heortling Peoples and the Guide are correct and that different types of Krjalki are meant - the original dragonewts and the latter being chaos. Jeff recently on FB spoke about Nysaloran forces fighting Gbaji forces and only the priests on both sides survived. Looking at the dates, there's a rebellion in 387 by Arbaga who've been in the region since 378. Palangio doesn't get there til 401 or so. That's an extraordinary long period of time for the Bright Empire to send troops to aid a rebellion. What if the main target of Palangio's army was not Herlalia but Arbaga's forces?