metcalph

Do we know that? Would the Lunars know where the Pentans were entering their territory? Should they have troops stationed every few kilometers? If so, would they be able to put up any resistance or call for reinforcements in time? It's not like this was a small area to cover. The Lunars have Moonboats. Kastoki The Lunar College of Magic (minor, major and crater-maker). Client kingdoms of Koth and Venthil Access to a decent river for troop transport Scounts and merchants to keep an eye on the tribes beyond. The key point of defence is to defend the territory they have not give it up to the nomads without a fight. Instead we have "The citizens retreated into their citadels to await the army." Glorantha Sourcebook p169. What is the point of having a big army if you don't bother defending your borders from an obvious threat?

That may be but the apparent defence strategy of the Lunar Empire - to have no troops on the border - is somewhat bizarre.

I wasn't complaining about the time it took to conquer Kralorela, I was commenting on the time the length of preparation for the invasion of Kralorela. I could accept two to five years preparing to invade Kralorela, I cannot accept 27.

There's a sentence from the Fortunate Succession in describing his preparations for the next combat with the Red Emperor "He spent part of the year in the sky, tempting new spirits to come to aid him." FS p57. Because of this, I don't believe multi-year absences on the Otherside are plausible explanations for his disappearances.

A simple list of Sheng's whereabouts. 1250 - Kralorela - Defeated by Exarch. Century of Slavery begins. 1350 - Kralorela - Century of slavery ends. Performs miracles in Boshan. 1352 - Kralorela - Now known as Sheng Seleris. 1355 - Kralorela - Leaves Boshan for Pent. 1356 - Kralorela - seizes the Iron Forts 1361 - Wastelands - Praxians submit to Sheng. 1362 - Kralorela - Invades Kralorela 1363 - Kralorela - Defeated by Godunya. Teshnos is under Sheng's rule at this time. Although interestingly enough his vassal there has a partial Dara Happan name some years before the Lunar Empire is first attacked. 1375 - Peloria - Defeats Lunars at Yuthuppa 1382 - Peloria - Siege of Glamour. Wrestles with Red Emperor 1390 - Peloria - Sheng sends fatal curse against Red Emperor 1404 - Peloria - Conversion of Alkoth. 1405 - Peloria - Failed attack on Yara Aranis at Good Shore. 1415 - Peloria - Sheng kills Red Emperor. 1442 - Peloria - Conversion of Kostaddi. Kralorela - Conquest. 1443 - Peloria - Apotheosize as a Hero 1444 - Peloria? - Possible involvement in slaughter of Sable People. New Star created (said by Lunars to have been the previous year). 1448 - Peloria - Deflects the Mad Sultanate away from his lands. 1449 - Peloria - Red Moon landing 1452 - Kralorela - Failed invasion of Vormain. 1456 - Peloria - Sack of Jord's Eye 1460 - Peloria - Defeat at Battle of Kitor There's several notable interregnums. After the 1363 defeat, Sheng takes 12 years to muster an army against the Lunar Empire. I think that in 1355 ST, he gained the allegiance of the Eastern Pentans by the shores of the Hot Lakes. Therefore after 1363 ST, he is conquering the Western Pentans and other sundry places within such as Senbar. After defeating the Lunars at Yuthuppa, he's gone again for seven years before leading an army against Glamour. After that, he's gone from Peloria for 22 years (apart from a brief curse) until he converts Alkoth and has a nasty tangle with Yara Aranis. He does some prepation for another duel against the Red Emperor which doesn't take place for another ten years. And then there's another gap of 27 years. Part of that is probably the invasion of Kralorela but I find it difficult to imagine that this took 27 years. So where does he go? And what kept him so busy?

A thing about Sheng's Brother is that Sheng is about 100+ years old at the time. A possibility is that the Brother is actually the leader of Dara Happa on Horse, so-called because he was worthy enough to be addressed as Brother by Sheng.

I have some issues with the accepted chronology of the Seleran Wars. I have no doubt that the Lunars believe that the events of the Redline History and the Fortunate Succession in this period is accurate, it's just that some parts don't make much sense. What happened to the Bat? Surely sending it against Sheng Seleris is what it's designed for? (It also wasn't at the Battle of the Four Arrows of Light but it was at the Battle of Castle Blue). Elsewhere in the Glorantha Sourcebook, JarEel is mentioned as riding the Crimson Bat in the Third Battle of Chaos. When was the Second? Was the Crimson Bat sent against Sheng Seleris and defeated? Did Sheng capture it and use it as his personal steed elsewhere? Sheng Seleris manages to ride his army all the way up the Arcos Valley to Yuthuppa before doing battle with the Lunar Empire? Whatever happened to putting a massive army between First Blessed and the Redlands? Was there an earlier conquest of First Blessed by the nomads? Or had First Blessed revolted against the Red Emperor beforehand? By 1377, there are three or four centres of resistance to Sheng Seleris: Glamour, Alkoth, Sylila and the Western Reaches? Why doesn't Sheng do the obvious thing and kick their heads in? He's invincible in Battle. But he doesn't move against Glamour for another twelve years. Perhaps after the Battle of Yuthuppa, the supposed centres of resistance submitted to Sheng Seleris and paid tribute? As a result of his wrestling match with the Red Emperor in 1389 ST, Sheng manages to steal a portion of the Red Emperor's worship over Kostaddi but doesn't use it for another 54 years? This is after he has already killed the Red Emperor in the meantime who then used the knowledge to beget Yara Aranis? Who on earth waits that long? And who precisely are the rebels? Next door for all those 54 years is Dara Happa on Horse who would gladly annex Kostaddi if asked.

Another feature of the Celestial Empire is that their supporters are often from distant lands. In Peloria, this means that the horse nomads will have civilian rulers and back-up troops from Teshnos (Elephants), Boshan (Tetsudo shieldwalls) and Ignorance (bloody handed maniacs). They would have sent in Animal Nomads but the Pelorians are accustomed to those by now and the Horse Nomads don't want the Hungry Plateau getting any more allies.. Pelorian warriors would be sent to Teshnos, Boshan and Ignorance. They will be treated marginally better than they would be in their homeland and forbidden to fraternize with the locals even to speak their language. All interactions should be only be spoken in the Pentan Language and then only through authoritized intermediaries. The Empire prefers that their auxillaries hate and fear the natives with deaths resulting from inevitable misunderstandings to be a good thing. If player-heroes are in a distant part of the Celestial Empire and carry out their orders without killing any natives then they are surely fraternizing with the enemy...

I see the Celestial Empire as geared towards supporting a magically invincible army of conquest. The cities and roads fall into ruin and decay as the grain and funds for their maintenance are diverted elsewhere. Signs of rebellion crushed whenever possible to maximize what can be extracted from a servile populace. The core of the Celetsial Empire are the Zolathi, the invincible slaves of Jolaty. Their souls have been cooked in the Empire's monasteries before being quenched and released to fight for Sheng. The monasteries do not produce Zolathi every year but they are built with a select amount of would-be Zolathi sealed within them. There they remain suffering in torment until they are needed. Then the seal is broken, the Zolathi released and the monastery abandoned. The older a monastery is, the more resources it requires to keep the souls within in torment. Because of this most of the Empire's resources goes towards keeping the monasteries running. Any player-heroes unfortunate to be sent to the monasteries are not killed. Instead they are made to labour day and night making the lives of the would-be Zolathi within a constant torment. Their duties range from cracking whips, keeping the irons hot, playing discordant music etc. Often the Abbots gives them enchantments so they can work longer and harder without tiring. The would-be Zolathi are constantly trying to escape and see their tormentors as foes.

The Glorantha Sourcebook has some maps which give additional detail. For instance, after the Lunar Empire collapsed there was a rebellion in and around Darsen led by the Ancient Way. It seems they were all slaughtered because next wane, their lands are part of the New Grasslands.

That merely may have been referring to the fact that the Pelandans and the Darjiinians were still under Carmanian control. And the magic is more tolerant of differences than you suggest. The original ritual required the use of Jarasans (Glorious ReAscent p85) riding Tall Birds but Cavalry was later used (Glorious ReAscent cover picture, Entekosiad p51 and the Day Owls at the Battle of Night and Day (History of the Heortling Peoples p26). As for the magic required that the troops be summoned from the ancient sites, I don't think that is required. Gartemirus for example is not summoned but merely asked by an exile who had asked for help (Entekosioad p51). The exile has also obtained horses but these are from the south (Nivorah) rather than being from the northwest (where the Riskestings were). Likewise Periades provides Zarkosians but only follows the letter of the ritual (History of the Heortling Peoples). If he were magically summoned then either the spell wouldn't have worked on him since he no longer followed Zarkosite ways (if he ever did) or impelled him to outfit troops in the required fashion (which he doesn't). Since he's following the letter (and not the spirit), it seems to me he's acting of free will. Zulox lies at the border of Vanch (Guide p715) with the Zarkosites not far off. It shouldn't have been too hard to send emissiaries to the Zarkosites asking them to show up at the required meeting place.

They however served in the Dara Happan army at the Battle of Night and Day as though they were meant to be Zarkosites. Much of the confusion I feel is that we are arguing over multiple definitions of Zarkosites. The people who call themselves Zarkosites. The people that the Dara Happans call Zarkosites. Any people descended from the Golden Age Kingdom of Zarkos. Your position is that the people of Zulox are Zarkosites. That's fine. You also think that nobody else (ie the Votanki and the Tunoralings) refers to themselves as Zarkosites. I can agree with that. Where I think you go to far is suggesting that the Dara Happans do not consider the Tunoralings or the Votanki Zarkosites (the evidence is clear that they felt the Tunoralings to be Zarkosites) or that there is no connection between the Golden Age Kingdom of Zarkos, the Tunoralings and the Votanki That's not the origin of the Zarkosites. That's the Dara Happan myth of how the Zarkosites ended up where they live after the Flood. Zarkos existed before the Flood. When Yelm ruled at Yuthubars, Zarkos is shown to the southeast as the land of Serenity (Glorious ReAscent p8). Zarkos is again shown as being extant when Murharzarm established the Ten Cities (Glorious ReAscent p12). When the Gods Wall was built, people shown in Zarkosite fashions (hides and furs according to the Glorious ReAscent p56). All this is before the Flood. Even the myths of Uryarda getting off the boat early refers to this when it says "The wide open oat fields made her homesick, and so she debarked m Zarkos where her folk lived a clean,,, pious, and respectable lifestyle. In this way the Outer Nations were started again, and their plants and animals were distributed again through the world." Glorious ReAscent p22. As an aside I don't believe all the Golden Age Zarkosites were wiped out by the Flood but that's irrelevant here. So there is a clear continuity between the Golden Age Kingdom of Zarkos and the country founded after the Flood.

However the Tunoralings of Lolon are described as ancestral to the Vanch (Guide p339) who were supposed to fight in the Zarkosite style at the Battle of Night and Day but their King decided otherwise (implied in p25 of History of the Heortling Peoples). So merely because the people of Zulox are described as Zarkosites does not preclude others from being so. Moreover all the Dara Happans concerned was fighting style - they didn't really care if the people herded goats or hunted so long as they bore slings in battle. Perhaps you settled elf-woods who disliked the goats munching on their trees.

Can you give details? The only reference to the Zarkosites not working out that I know of is the Battle of Night and Day where the Vanchites are equiped by the King as bronze clad peltasts. Currently the practice is to use Thunder Delta slingers who are not Zarkosites and they work fine.

The Burning Hoofprint (p214) and the Green Crown clans (p217) are mentioned in the Sartar Companion. There was a map listing all of the clans up on glorantha.com but it's now of uncertain status.

It's inferred from the following detail on the Gods Wall The Goat-woman is Uryarda and the Lion-man is Durbaddath. The little tyke then is obviously the child of the two, right? Here's where it get's complicated. In the Glorious ReAscent (p62), Plentonius identifies this as Ergesh but a footnote actually says that it is Votank. Now in the Guide to Glorantha, he's named Zarkos instead. There's still mention of Durbaddath cultists in Votankiland in the previous footnote which is either evidence that there's still some sort of relationship or that the Gregging Scribes slipped up. Is Votank Zarkos? I really don't know. Having two sets of parents isn't unknown in Glorantha. A stronger objection is that Votank appeared in the Great Darkness whereas the Gods Wall depicts the Gods worshipped in the Golden Age. . If I were to say that Votank is Zarkos then I would say that Votank is reborn in every age to lead his people from whatever calamity (Flood, Civilized People, Storm Gods etc) that has beset them.

The Middle Sea Empire p43 does mention some names like: Davaka the Dealer: organizer of the first raids on the rural holy places (c 800 ST) Alan of Nolos who calculated power places and weak spots from pagan manuscripts (also 800 ST) Venrestol Bookmmen who explored the holy places of the Malkioni (c 810 ST) This led to the Bookman School under Abbot Bookman which was an general exploration. In 845 ST, under Abbot Inkarion the Blockbuster, the God Learners began invade the pagan strongpoints. In 849 ST (part and parcel of the Goddess Switch), Iskandos of Reyerswal made copies of unique items for a time (he may have been a Zistorite as a similar complaint was made about the Machine City in Different Worlds #24). By 960 ST, they were regularly performing Power HeroQuests but no name is given.

Greg has said in the past that it's Gonn Orta's daughter (all known babies before this having been males). It survived an attempted plundering by Harrek according to the Ur-Argrath Saga in the Guide. I don't think the child makes a further appearance in the Hero Wars.

There were Hippos in the Golden Age that were foes of the Darjiinians (along with the Tapirs and the Crocodiles). They are not mentioned further and hence I assume the Genertelan species is extinct.

What's the source?

Lokarnos may be worshipped but only since the Celestial Empire and recognizably a foreign import. Furalor and Calyz don't resemble any better known cults. Furalor would teach Cremate Dead. I'm not sure if Create Wildfire is appropriate because he's the purifying goddess of flame rather than the out-of-control wildfire. She probably would teach a burning crown spell (Guide p428) which is either an arduous purification ritual or something you cast on enemies. The Guide p431 mentions her fires at Chatal can clean the merchants of the pollution of dealing with the hsunchen so it's clear her flames can be nonlethal etc. Calyz is a bit interesting in that he is not mentioned on the Zanozar bas-relief (Guide p428) - instead we get two incarnations of Somash. He may be a culture hero who brought fire and kept people alive during the Great Darkness. He could be a son of Solfindicating why people pay him attention whereas Solf is burned out and useless. As well as the traditional three fires (cooking, smelting and sex), he also has some affinity with draining marshes to make rice paddies and some snake magic (which may be another form of his sex magic).

Mine's still in the air (ie left Sydney on Monday and hasn't been recorded as landed over a day later). Probably will arrive on Thursday or Friday (since for some reason Auspost sends it to Dorkland). Who knew ordering the Cursed Maps of Berserking could cause so much trouble?

Personally I would have the Dragonewt PC either from Ormsland or Ryzel. That way they can be slightly more "human" in their thinking and still seeking to improve themselves by study at the Dragon's Eye. That way other dragonewts would still be incomprehensible to them. For Dragon Magic, I would basically use the Rune Points to model if and when they cast their magics. There's long been talk of tying their magics to what RQG now calls rune affinities.

I don't find this funny and it hasn't been funny for quite some time. I've largely giving up on reading through Joerg's lengthy prose and I avoid arguments with him and I've seen others do so as well.

The argument was not over the existence of barding but whether the artist got it wrong by depicting a small horse.