metcalph

The reference is to the Entekosiad.

It just occurred to me that a better formulation of the Sunpath/Southpath distinction might be that the Sunpath is travelled by the Planets of the Day while the Southpath is travelled by the Planets of the Night (the Night being different from the Underworld)

The Twin Stars are not underworld deities but the last remnants of the Twins (Wyrms Footprints p33, omitted from the Glorantha Sourcebook). The Sunpath or Southpath interpretation may or may not be true (the source statements in the Glorantha: Intro was written by Greg) but the planets on the southpath were in the Sky in the Golden Age.

As I may have said on Google+ (I'm sure I intended to say it at the time but can't be arsed to go to the thread to check), I regard the Celestial Deities listed on p103 as misleading. I think in the Good Old Days, they were regarded as the homes of the High Gods but since the Gods Wars, the Vithelans recognize the Gods have left the Nine Houses (shown in the published version of Revealed Mythologies p91 but not shown in the pdf). The Nine Houses then are the Vithelan equivalent of the the Copper Plate: Yelm and the Ten Planets. You are cutting and pasting between mythologies. All you have here is what the Doraddi say about Veldara. That's irrelevant to what the Artmali thought about Veldara. It's like saying that the Kralori thought that Lightfore was the home of Daruda means that Lightfore as worshipped in Dara Happa would have draconic associations (a similar argument can also be constructed for Balumbasta and the Red Planet but you are rejecting that for some unknown reason). Secondly the planets present different faces depending on the age at which they were worshipped. Most of Glorantha worships the Sun as he was in the Storm Age (Yelmalio/Elmal/Cold Sun) while the Dara Happans worship the Sun as he was in the Golden Age. If someone views a planet as being the home of an underworld or evil deity then that is the face that planet presented to some people in the Storm Age or Greater Darkness (for example the Blue Moon, the Black Dendara and Lokarnos would have been known to the Orlanthi as Malia, Thed and Ragnaglar). I fear you are paying too much attention to the genealogical connections. These should be regarded as how the worshippers view the mythical relationships between the planets as opposed to an objective assessment of the origin of these planets. Shargash is the son of Yelm but Balumbasta is the father of Varama. Trying to sort them out is like trying to decide which of the condition runes was the first one from the text in RQ2.

If the Guide claim the Doraddi believe that Balumbasta comes from the Red Planet then the Guide is correct. That the Artmali claim that Tolat also comes from the Red Planet is neither here or there as the Artmali are degenerate tidal worshippers. This is the Mastakos/Uleria difference all over again and should be embraced rather than being discarded.

Not the most accurate description of the deity, either. It is repeated a few times in the Guide "the God of Love and War" p427, "A God of War and Sex" p437, "A God of Love and War" p439. It's what the Amazons see him as as opposed to being him as a god of the Underworld. As I pointed out on Google+ (but the format of the comments necessitating terseness make it difficult to communicate such matters), just because the gods are associated with the same planet does not mean they share the same attributes. A key case in point is the small blue planet which is viewed as Mastakos by the Orlanthi and Uleria by the Pelorians.

I regard the original maps as apocryphal because the Guide itself says A similar statement appears in p364 (there is a winkle here in that Prax is said to have been conquered in the years following Sheng's failed invasion of 1363 whereas the Huck Sheng submission was in 1361. I assume that aftewards Sheng Seleris increased the tribute and this provoked a crushed uprising) Given that Sheng was seeking some trick to use against Godunya, I strongly doubt that he would have been satisifed with having Prax just as a source of manpower considering the tales he would have heard of a ruined city and a mountain of truestone. As yet I do not believe that Sheng came to Prax. But I do think that Prax itself was visited by several of Sheng's chosen warriors and that their presence caused major trauma. While the trolls remained in charge of the Rubble as of 1450, I strongly doubt that the Celestial Empire would have simply left it or Sun County alone. My current thinking viz-a-viz the Rubble is that they made a major intrusion that sidestepped the seal but ultimately gave up as being worthless.

If Sheng managed to break the Closing before Dormal, I'm not too worried about them being able to sidestep the seal. My chief qualm is that it it is something that would be remembered. What I'm leaning towards is making the mysterious settlement of Iffinbix a Celestial Empire intrusion. That assumes that Sheng knows what is in the Rubble before he decides whether or not to plunder it. Which is unlikely even for an all-powerful demigod. FWIW I don't believe that Sheng went to Prax but kind of like to see a more entertaining reason than it was not worth his while to plunder. Perhaps the pieces that are falling off were caused by Sheng's Visit and the reason why the Storm Bullies are so crazed about anybody trying to steal them is because they have bad memories about the visit. (I'm rather proud of rumour 51 in the Sartar Companion although I think the (F) that follows is a publishing error). I think a Celestial Empire lieutenant decided to have a go in plundering Dragon Pass and summoned Jaldon for the purpose. I *meant* to mention this in the post that you were responding to but had to do something else in a hurry. IMO at first most worshippers of Jolaty would be simple worshippers and initiates. I don't think Praxian followers of the more austere path would be particularly common until much later.

I find this unlikely given that mysticism appears in Cults of Terror with statements like I don't think that to be a mystic one has to understand and refute the three different magics. One can be a mystic by follow one magical tradition (be it animism, sorcery or rune magics) and use it to improve the self without ever being exposed to another magical tradition. The key criteria is whether the magic improves the soul. The Orlanthi knew of sorcery as far back as the Storm Age from Lhankor Mhy. It may not have been as advanced as in the western lands but it was still there.

My thoughts about the Celestial Empire. In the years after his failed first invasion (1362) Sheng Seleris was sacking a large number of places for secrets to use against Kralorela. Did he visit Prax? Or was Prax visited only by his chosen goons? In Sun County, there is mention of Zeoluz (1370-75) who seems like a particularly bad egg. He however doesn't rule very long such that if he was in the Empire, he got bored and left. Other places on the Celestial Empire to sack list would be the Block (all that Truestone), Eiritha Hills, Selenteen's Landing (which was destroyed) and the Rubble (which does have an out in saying that records are scare for 200 years PGtA p37) . To avoid conflicts with the existing early sources, I assume that the Celestial Empire bigwig governed and collected tribute from the Huck Sheng Hills and was mainly interested in supply of troops. His enforcers were mostly Praxian adherents of Jolaty. That way, any actions by the Celestial Empire can be largely invisible to the Sartarites and Tarshites.

Potato bread is mentioned in Cults of Prax p40 as a mundane benefit of the Seven Mothers cult. As for coffee, I'm sure there is a market for it in the Holy Country and Fonrit.

Not necessarily. The creature could be lighter-than-air for example, like a living balloon.

Eiritha isn't a crop goddess. I would assume Zola Fel is responsible for the blessing.

I would refrain from using Hero Wars terminology as an absolute guide to mysticism. A better definition of mysticism might be an "an inward betterment of the soul" and contrast it with the use of magic for material displays of power. A gloranthan mystic wouldn't be concerned with using magic (whether in the form of spells, affinities or spirits) to improve his soul. As far back as Gods of Glorantha, Dayzatar's rune spells were costly and seem silly for this reason.

Freeing can be subsumed under Dismiss, ie Dismiss Binding Spell. Vivifying would be better known as Creation. I assume that the Malkioni use Summon instead of Creation on the basis that since the Invisible God has already created the world, it has everything we need and that new creations would be either impossible, blasphemous or chaotic.

Personally I would junk the Short Worlds theory that comes up in the Hero Wars period. Dream magicians would interact with the same sources of magic as ordinary magic. Revealed Mythologies has a series of myth illustrating the various schools of dream magic and their relationship to Thella. If you can make sense of that, you are one up on me, because I found the myths too vague to gather much useful detail. For example, a dream magician spends his sleep in the heroplane where he tries to make sense of the places that he has seen. The type of magic depends on the dreams that he has. Terrible magics are gained through having Nightmares in the Great Darkness for example. The dreaming magician generally starts of with a mantra to reach a specific dreaming point - the origin point for his school. From there on he navigates the heroplane/dream world intending to understand its mysteries. Most dreamers roam the Storm Age of the Eastern Isles while others travel the Great Darkness or Golden Age. A common practice among dreaming magicians is to become closer to the gods at specific points. This confers Rune Magic. Another type of dream magic practice might be to turn dreams into dream-wraiths through dream-catchers. The wraiths would be treated as spirits and their powers dependent on the type of dream the magician was having at the time. The wraiths could be use to affect visible friends or enemies or harass/bless distant enemies and friends in their sleep. Finally there's the attempt to manifest dreams in the waking world. I would handle these as spells. To create a motivation for some dreamers to interact with the mortal world, they often try dreaming in different places to see if they can find something new. I generally would handle the learning of new dream magic as a general improvement rather than an actual adventure (to avoid non-dreamers being left out). One could have dreamers sharing their dreams with non-dreamers as a quest of some sort but I don't see this as a common occurrence (ie it's not something that I'd see the PCs doing every adventuring session).

Like during the reign of Dorasar or during the reign of Lord Pavis? I think any government would be weak outside the city of New Pavis. The only way it could raise money would be on taxes on activities within the city (where the tax collectors could avoid being beaten up). And for protection? I doubt that New Pavis has enough funds for any sort of protective services. I think the clans would find it cheaper to cut out the middle men and hire mercenaries (Sun Domers, Zebra Tribe, friendly nomads) if they had to fight. Presumably you are referring to the Sartarite Settler clans and not the clans of Dorasar's household (who slipped upon carelessly unsheaved lunar daggers when the lunars came)? The clans follow their own laws. If you have a dispute with your fellow clansman, then appealling to New Pavis would only get you beaten up. If you have a dispute with another clan, then you would either spoil for a fight or reach agreement clan-to-clan rather than automatically accept the jurisdiction of New Pavis. Looking at the Coming Storm - the Cinsina tribe could supposedly take many of its disputes to Jonstown to sort it out. Yet the number of fights it gets into with its neighbours makes it look like thatnever happens. Clans fight in Sartar all the time and there is a bigger enemy around. The Lunars would be happy to see the clans fight all the time because it keeps them 1) busy and 2) unlikely to join forces against the Lunars. They clan chief makes a complaint to the other clan. If there is no redress, then he fights by fair means or foul until the other clan decides gets tired and says sorry. Yes. Yes Hard cheese. Not as much as they are more concerned about keeping their cattle out of the hands of the Praxians.

Some of the Horse People have Dara Happan names. Dagguneri actually means something like Eats Woman (since Enari means woman and Dag appears in Dardaggus the Cannibal, another Emperor, and Dag the Muncher, an Ogre King fought by HonEel). Likewise some of the Horse People Emperors are actually Rinliddi bird people and so their names would be related to Dara Happan (Arguably the same could be said of the other two dynasties of Horse Emperors) Another consideration that seems not to be mentioned is that the names might be phrases containing a God's name in a non-obvious context. For example the Assyrian King, Sennacherib; his name actually means something like "Sin (the Moon Goddess) has provided another" - he was presumably born after his parent's lost a child.

In the absence of bear-baiting, there is always a live performance of a Winter's Tale ("Exit, pursued by a bear").

KoS p139 says the deed was performed by Enerian Scarlet, not Erianda the Red. The difference between minor and major class magicians is not illumination but mastering six of the phases. Erianda seems to have mastered only one - Natha's phase from her runes Darkness and Death.

There's only a limited number of regiments. The Major Classes, the Minor Classes, the Comet Seers, the Spell Archers, the Crater Makers and the Blue Moon School. The Nathic School etc is now post-canonical. Major class magicians are "illuminated Lunar magicians, each trained to master at least six of the seven phases." Guide p296 The best available treatment is the unpublished 13th Age manuscript. Comet Seers attack with Lunar Sparks, make Pronouncements of Doom and other fateful attacks. The Spell Archers are described as fire mages on horseback - but the description talks about the Grazelanders. Blue Moon Magicians send you to the Plateau to fight a demon which you won't remember fighting if you survive. The Crater Makers attack with meteors (the text calls them meteorites but they aren't technically such until they make contact) Hence on the basis of the description I think Erianda is perhaps a minor class magician who has not yet mastered the necessary phases to become a major class magician.

Women's names generally end with an -a as opposed to -us or -um for men. Thus Jernotia or Jernotius.

I think Kythra is a native Fonritan rather than a Lunar missionary from overseas. The original Yranian Leapers worshipped the Red Moon despite the Closing being in effect. On the other hand, Livia Tarinda (Guide p476) is explicitly stated to be from the Lunar Empire. But I think her work is mainly religious and would have no time for organizing a fleet from the Eastern Isles to help out some military operation in Kethaela

The map on p132 of the Guide has the basic outlines. However it gets more complicated. The latest mention of the Dark Empire in the Middle Sea Empire book is during the reign of Nralar (who ruled during the whole of the 500s). During the reign of Bretnos (650s), there's an invasion from Tanisor but no awareness of an empire in Ralios. Likewise in the reign of Hymat (c. 675), the Duke of Tanisor hiring mercenaries from all over Ralios but no mention is made of what the rulers of Ralios thought about it or who they were. It's unclear if there was even an empire as such in Ralios at the time. There is no sign of a Dark Empire during the reigns of Tyrmir or Haladin. The Jrusteli rulers are keeping peace with Nolos and Tanisor, eventually welcoming Nolos back into the fold and converting Tanisor. It is only during the reign of 708-725, that the Dark Empire makes an appearance by plundering Rindland. The reprisals seem to be confined to conquering the Marsh. When Seshnela is convulsed with civil war during the reign of Saval, the Dark Empire is conspicuous by its absence. Only in the reign of Annmak does it reappear with its conquest at the hands of Marshal Nisaro (which may or may not be Arkhome in Rindland). So I'm inclined to doubt there was anything like a conventional empire and that mentions of an empire may have been disputes with religious leaders and magicians of various places.

My guess is Rightarmers paid for by the Red Earth Alliance. Both may have good reason to fear Rikard or Broyan.