Nevermet

Wanna write a Calandraland book for Jonstown? 😈

Yep. Confusion, and whether there is solidarity or hostility will depend on context

Makes sense

So which appeals most to you?

Pelorians trying to make sense of Newts would be fun. ....well.... OOC fun. IC, it'd probably be terrifying

This is a very random point, and I'm not making a claim that they are historically related, but this reminds me strongly of the Velortinian Principle in Pelandan philosophy as found in the Entekosiad: "Humans are responsible for the world, even if/though the gods are not."

That's my understanding, based on The Guide. Calandrans are basically Orlanthi in terms of culture & general religion who view their patron deity as Veskarthen As a guess, the weirdness is very much experienced by worshippers. I can't imagine devotees of Turos, Lodril, and Keskarthan would all get along, even if they acknowledge they all worship the same god with a relatively consistent personality. But the mythology and stories they all tell are so different. It's not that they're necessarily incompatible, but it's like finding out your god has a double life. (I'm not terribly surprised Lodril is a bit of a two-timer, but hey...)

It never occurred to me to equate Entru with Drorgalar, but that could work! I completely agree with this. I'm not sure, but I think that IMG, Aram is descended from the son Harand gave to the Uz. That's a good question that I don't think the texts fully answer. Middle Sea Empire states that the fact there is an Archduke of Slontos suggests there were Malkioni Talars in Slontos before its incorporation into the MSE. IMG, when Veakmal re-conquered the Herlaning Kingdoms, he brought both western sorcery and "Serpent King Hrestolism," something that would be rather compatible a Earth demigod born during time such as Kaxtor. I currently suspect that the Olodo were Slontans fleeing the Gbaji Wars, and the Waertagi were partly willing to help because the Olodo were at least somewhat "Western". I'm honestly unsure if all this holds water, but it is where I currently am.

And eyebrows!

I have not touched mythology much at all yet, because frankly, there is a daunting amount of information. My current thesis, which I have not elaborated at all, let alone post here, is that Entrulings were a group of Orlanthi lead by a very different son of Orlanth than Vingkot. And here we go Entrulings were at least 3 groups: People who followed Entru & Ketha west Former Hsunchen, Explains Manirian tendency to have individual animal associations I strongly suspect that the Enrtulings / Harandings tell a very different Remnants of the Helerings after Heler was devoured. The single most important Temple to Heler in Genertela is in Maniria, but there was never a "Helering" people since the Dawn I could believe Durevings too, but I haven't explored that Entrulings built fewer fortresses than, say, the Esrolians They travelled light, hid from the forces of Chaos, and looked for allies where they could. Hooafting somehow managed to make a network of secret campsites that Chaos could not find. I want to say that Crazy Uncle Kolat was much more relevant in Maniria than in Esrolian & Hoertling lands, but I am unsure how justifiable this is. Elder Races The Aldryami had a complicated relationship with the humans, but through Ketha deals could be reached. I have been working off the assumption there was no Trolls in Maniria at the Dawn As per the Dragonewt thread, I've become persuaded there was probably an ancient nest in Ryzel that the 1st Age Newts wanted to reconnect with and awaken. ...that's all I'm firm about, which reallyisn't much, so, yeah... open the mythical floodgates 😉

Good idea, thanks 🙂 The political snake pit of finding families willing to adopt an up-and-coming Kaxtori must be wilder, and worse, bribing a family to take a loser who needs to be kept away from responsibilities. I should definitely be more careful about my language. Even if Kaxtorplose isn't xenophobic, they're not as... aspirationally cosmopolitan as the Trader Prince cities were before Dormal, or Handra and Fay Jee are now. I'm sure that Kaxtorplose is perfectly happy to take on trade goods, and they're very happy to welcome pilgrims, but, well.... they have their ways of doing things.

I haven't read up in a while, but my memory is that trying to identify what is Ralian vs. Manirian before time is exceedingly difficult.

I really need to just sit down with King of Sartar, Heortling Mythology, and Land of 10K Goddesses, and just.... read. I won't have time to do that for about 6 weeks or so, sadly

oh, PS Foreigners Like many Malkioni, the temple-citizens of Kaxtorplose refer to strangers and foreigners as "Jabberers." Just outside the Walls, there is a small set of structures called "Jabber Town." This is the primary location for trade between the Ulliover and the Kaxtori. Near Jabber Town, there is a large field for the Ulliover to use for their moots. Hands who work outside the Walls (merchants, hunters, farmers on the larger fields rather than the city gardens) are sometimes called "Jabberpals," though this is an extremely insulting term as it implies someone isn't "really" Kaxtori. The Returned One cannot talk about "Jabberland", the lands outside the walls that are still well known to the Kaxtori, without talking about the Returned Portions. At its height during the Second Age, Kaxtorplose's population was roughly three times what it is now, and the population density was much lower. Contemporary Kaxtorplose, therefore, is surrounded by ruins. In the past 6 centuries, many of those ruins have become half buried by growth, or actively tilled into being farmland. However, there are still more than a few haunting structures. The Builders discourage the Kaxtori and Uliover from going to the Returned, and it is a grave crime if one is found trying to loot the Returned.

I'm trying very hard to create a society that is interesting, compatible with Glorantha (especially a Malkioni community with roots in a version of Orlanthi / Esrolian culture), and also plausible. I want to avoid as much handwaiving as possible in the social structure. I want it to make sense, I want it to be imperfect, I want to allow for sincerity, and I want it to be fun to game with. Please let me know if you don't think something works, even if you don't have immediate suggestions on a solution.

Life in Third Age Kaxtorplose I need to read a lot, mostly outside of gaming books, before I'm happy with this section, but here we go. Unlike most of Maniria, the society within the Holy City maintains all four castes of Malkion. Talars The head Talar of Kaxtorplose is known as The Advocate of Kaxtorplose. Originally a title from the Middle Sea Empire's civilian bureaucracy, the Advocate is the final authority, though they are bound by the Law of Kaxtor and are not a tyrant. Other Talars are the Officers of the Advocate. Officers are usuallygranted authority over a location: a wing of the temple complex, the gardens, the walls, etc. The High Officers are in charge of the military, the land, and diplomacy with the outside world. The Advocate is technically the High Officer of the People of Kaxtor. Together, the four Officers are the sides of the Earth Rune. Zzaburi The Zzaburi of Kaxtorplose are known as builders. They are the ceremonial keepers of knowledge of Kaxtorplose, and they control the Library of the Root and the other sacred rooms within Kaxtorplose. The hallmark of their philosophy is reinforcement: correct knowledge of the cosmos will reinforce correct social struture, ethics, and so on. Tension between knowledges or aspects of life suggest error that must be rooted out. Truth , life, justice, and law are like four walls of a house that shall endure for all time. They are aware of illumination and oppose it on theological grounds: though individuals like Arkat may thrive beyond truth, a society cannot be built upon illumination and survive. The fact that Arkat fell, Nysalor died, and the EWF was annihilated is proof of their view. In principle, the Builders are willing to acknowledge they do not know the full truth, but illuminated notions of contradiction and moving beyond both truth and illusion are anathema to them. Horali The Horali of Kaxtorplose are simply the Defenders. Training for war begins at a young age, and they are indoctrinated to believe the goal of a soldiers life is to have their name etched on The Walls so that Kaxtor will know and remember them and sing their praises to the Invisible God. The martial arts of Kaxtori Army are deeply analytic, and their tomes on correct tactics and fighting are seen as deeply confusing if not silly to the Maniran tribesmen around them. However, the Hevduran Sword Sages of Esrolia have recently discovered them, and find them absolutely fascinating. This does not improve the reputation of Kaxtori martial training among the Manirians. Kaxtori tactics excel at defense, and they are often viewed dismissively as rejecting glory, and being overly intellectual. That being said, there is a reason why the Uliover say, "An armed Kaxtori in a hallway is just another wall." Dronars As with most Malkioni societies, the vast majority of the population Within the Walls are Dronars, locally called the Hands. They are hunters, farmers, artisans, and craftspeople. They maintain the temple-city in all its glory, and are proud of doing so. There are a number of ways that the Hands can make formal petitions for action from the Advocate, and there are many ways their opinions are allowed to be voiced to their direct Officer. Outside of those specific moments, however, speaking out of turn is considered a serious breech, and may result in a Zzaburi meeting with discuss the "rebuilding of virtue." Note on Gender: People of all genders are found within all castes, though most caste positions are gendered in different ways. Among the Defenders, for example, the cavalry and the archers are typically where one finds women, while heavy infantry are the most masculine occupation among the Defenders. Caste Mobility: Officially, castes are hereditary. However, twice a year there are Congregations, where the entire city comes together for formal business. During these meetings, people may petition to have their castes change. There are many reasons for this: someone may be seen as having great promise in another caste, someone may request a temporary reassignment for personal reasons, or as part of penance after being found guilty of a crime. It is not particularly strange for someone to have moved between castes once or twice over the course of their lives, though the details of their case dictate whether this is a source of pride or shame. The builders have final approval on a caste change. Knights: Knights, or men-of-all in the Hrestoli tradition, are exceedingly uncommon but are technically allowed within the Law of Kaxtor. Such people have demonstrated an unusual degree of flexibility, and they are known within Kaxtorplose as emissaries, as they require the least purification rituals after dealing with Jabberers (foreigners). Kaxtor is considered the First Emissary, showing the true wisdom of the Invisible God to morals of his time. It is a closely kept secret of the Builders of Kaxtorplose, but Emissaries are the only Kaxtori who are ever allowed to remain Within the Walls after Illumination. Such an event requires a large degree of measurement, however, to ensure they are not "of the Vrok".

Now I need to read up on that.... darn you for giving me work I want to do! 😉 Also, I really need to sit down at some point and try to argue a horrible question: How does Entruli mythology differ from Heortling / Sartarite mythology? Yes, those original differences have been lessened since time began (the Theyalan promotion of Lightbringer mythology, Arkat's brand of Orlanthi, various cultural imports from Esrolia over the centuries)... but the land of Maniria will remember different experiences than Kirofinela and the Holy Country. If fact, maybe that will be my next scratchpad: mythical Maniria and how the land has a different mythical trajectory than, say, the Holy COuntry, Dragon Pass, or Prax.

Thanks And I know snakepipe hollow, but not Stonepipe Hollow. Help a guy out?

The walls have memory and emotion, but not consciousness. I'm now imagining the walls "liking" it when people play Kaxtor's favourite music, and a few times a year large raptors are found dead just out of the city walls. This also creates a constant Pagan offering opportunity that a lot of Malkioni are gonna haaaaaaate

City walls with the Earth Rune and Life Rune. I need to think through more about exactly how much Kaxtor's consciousness remained imbued in the walls. My current thinking is something remained, but most of it was consumed while protecting the city from the Flood. Also, whatever remained is explicitly not Kaxtor himself, but rather an echo or copy.

Also, sorry I'm being a bad community member... I will be more active elsewhere on the forum by the end of the weekend

What did Kaxtor do? How did he die? I don't have a lot of time to expound on this, but I view Kaxtor as a powerful hero or demigod. He is Earthson and he is The Builder. Using knowledge, rune magic, and wizardry, he became a master architect and urban planner. Sculpting the earth to allow prosperity. His notions of ethics and social structure were organized around building according to "Right Structure", an applied understanding of matter and energy. He used magic to erect massive walls to protect his home from Palangio. During the siege and before Arkat landed, Palangio almost breached the walls and took the temple. To prevent this from happening, Kaxtor sacrificed himself by imbuing his very essence into the walls of the city (possible parallels with Ylream being absorbed by the earth). There are stories of the walls and halls of Kaxtorplose still being haunted to this day by Kaxtor, though these are usually discounted as highly unlikely./

Work has got me crushed until the end of the weekend, so I haven't been writing as much as I would like. This post: The general Area of Kaxtorplose The western New Coast, sometimes called the Ryzel coast is a narrow stretch of land between the Mournsea to the south and Ryzel hills to the North. Vestiges of its once gently rolling hills can still be seen in the landscape, though it is not scarred with abrupt gorges and cliffs that emerge when Slontos sank. While the vegetation and fauna here are abundant in the western New Coast, it lacks the deep forests that inland Maniria is famous for. Cliffs of Ryzel (Wiki Commons pic of Étretat cliffs) Part of it is claimed and fanatically guarded by the Dragonewts, ranging from the ruins of Gualal west to the ruins of Hermat, until the beginning of the New Fens. Adventurers of various stripes have attempted to plunder the Godlearner ruins of the Ryzel coast for lost magic. Most never return. Some are killed by the Dragonewts, and some are killed by other, darker things that inhabit the ruins. The eastern half of the Ryzel coast goes to the Tigrionor River. The Dragonewts have allowed humans to live here as long as they do not enter the hills. These lands are occupied by the Uliover tribe. A strongly Helering tribe, they were some of the first Kotori to explore west and south after the drowning of the Godlearners. They also discovered a single city, fully intact, named Kaxtorplose. It took a generation or two, but eventually the Uliover and Kaxtorplose forged a cautious agreement. By the middle of the 3rd Age, the Uliover relationship with Kaxtorplose has become similar to the way other Manirian tribes relate to Trader Prince cities: The “Malkioni”of the city serve as arbiters in tribal politics and offer artisan goods. In exchange, the Uliover offer raw materials, food, and military support. Unlike the Jubali up the Tigrionor River, the Uliover live in constant fear of the Dragonewts, who they occasionally called “Arokans,” associating them with the myths of Heler. The Temple Citizens of Kaxtorplose likewise fear and respect the Newts of Ryzel. Since the Opening, Kaxtorplose has found itself a minor port in the Mournsea, receiving less traffic than either Fay Jee or Handra. The Kaxtori are frankly fine with this as they tend toward isolationism, and they have outsourced much of the port activity to the Uliover, who operate the Harborcliff Docks a short distance from Kaxtoplose. The Temple City of Kaxtorplose A marvel of engineering, Kaxtorplose is an intricate walled temple complex. Windows are placed for both defense and light, there is a complex plumbing / irrigation system throughout the complex, and there are multiple gardens on the rooftops. A visitor will almost feel guided to the core locations such as the Gate of Welcome, and the Gallery of the Mica Altar. Trying to find other fables locations within the Temple-City such as the Hostage Tree or the Deep Tomb tends to end in people being hopelessly lost. There are tales of especially unworthy foreigners starving to death as the wander the endless halls. Such tales, to be sure, are exaggerations, though more than a few people have noted that, at the least, one’s spatial awareness is somehow impaired in parts of Kaxtorplose. 3rd Age Kaxtorplose is a deeply insular, traditionalist place. Its citizenry is absolutely convinced that the heroic works of Kaxtor have allowed Kaxtorplose to endure Palangio, the Dragonewts, the Godlearners, and the Flood. They are not sure what the Hero Wars will bring, and they are worried as all are for dark times. However, it is almost assumed that the Holy City will endure. The Deep Tomb of Kaxtorplose. Note the Serpent iconography and the Law Run (Credit: an early design illustration for "Alien") Gallery of the Mica Altar (Credit: Brutalist church 'St. Rita' by Leon Stynen and Paul de Meyer in Harelbeke, Belgium (1966) [My visual understanding of Kaxtorplose is very much "fantasy brutalism." I have not seen a picture worthy of the walls that can resist the Iron Vrok yet. Such walls, built by the demigod son of Esrola, should not really look like walls built by mortals. IMG, the holy structures of Kaxtorplose are alien things. the walls and inner sanctum are solid, seamless rock, creating an effect similar to the poured concrete of brutalist architecture.]

Well, I've had about 5 different character concepts pop in my head from this. 🙂

I'm unfamiliar with Parthan. Could someone explain it to me? It also seems to me that there are 2 questions: the cultural origins of the explorers, and the particularly polity that funded the expedition (Columbus wasn't Spanish and all that).